Blizzard All Stars: MOBA's going casual?

[Zooch]

So recently I've been researching any information I can find on Blizzard's first and newest excursion into the MOBA genre, Blizzard All Stars. There isn't a plethora of information released on the game yet (Blizzcon 2011 presentation for those interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWymJSal9IM), however the developers do seem to be hinting as some interesting design philosophy. The one that caught my attention specifically was accessibility of the game.


Right now, I think a lot of people would agree that the most hindering part of genre leading titles DoTA 2, LoL, and even HoN is the insufficient amount of tutorial and initation into the game for new players, and as a result, the inaccessibility. Sure, all of these games have their own take on tutorials and bot training, but in my opinion that really isn't enough. I never realized this until I tried getting some of my friends into DoTA 2. We tried queuing up for a few games together, but I could tell they were immediately put off. They understood the objective of the game, but the complexities behind each individual hero, countering, item build variances, and teamfight combos were just too much for them to handle. I've been playing DoTA on and off for 8 years, but the game still seems to reveal more to me every match (coincidentally, why I enjoy it). However, they would just end up doing exactly what I told them to do, but their execution was typically faulty and resulted in their/my deaths. They haven't played the game since.


The truth is, due to the fact that the people who typically play any of the major three MOBA games come from a DOTA 1 background, the skill level of the average player is usually very high relative to someone giving the genre a shot for the first time. If you ever try making a new account and hopping in to your first match, you can easily notice that even players with new accounts know exactly what they're doing and how to play, and if you don't, prepare for the verbal and textual threats you will be receiving, or more importantly, tell your mom to start taking birth control.


Enter Blizzard All Stars. Blizzard has always been the great refiner, not known to revolutionize genres typically, but to enhance them and polish them down to a point. WoW, SC, Diablo, etc. were not the first games of their type. Blizzard just knows how to make things playable for the masses, and I think they'll continue this approach with their new MOBA game. It will probably be deemed as a game for casuals, a dumbed down version of DOTA, or the MOBA for "kiddies", but to me this could potentially be a great game to bring more people into the genre, and eventually transition into some of the more complicated titles. What do you guys think?

[Thimagryn]

Blizzard Allstars has been moved from the 2013 category to 'Long Term' list alongside their 'Unannounced MMO'. They're taking their time making sure this new game will be able to compete with the other MOBAs. Or else they'll scrap it.

We don't know what direction they're still planning to take the game. The last we heard was their attempt at making it accessible and very simplified, but all that is theoretical and experimental talk. There are many flaws that I see with their direction, namely the lack of items and recipes lacks the depth and replayability a more complex game like LoL or DOTA2 would offer. You don't feel like a badass if all you can get are potions and flasks.

There's also issues like having the game progress so quickly and having 15 minute games. While it's good to have shorter games, it removes a lot of the tension and intensity a MOBA can have. It's all a part of the game's pacing, and there's a very specific formula that the genre works around. I'm happy to see Blizzard is exploring the gameplay and trying to make shorter games, but I have my skepticisms for anyone who tries to change the formula. I mean look at all the MOBAs that have been created since. LoL and DOTA 2 are still the top dogs, and for good reason. They stick closest to the formula, which is what people are familiar with.

[TranceMonster]

LoL is the actual tutorial to teach you how to play Dota 2... when you reach the highest level w/e there is in LoL you're ready for lowest priority in Dota 2, GLHF.

[Kuthe]

People learn, that's the point.
People learnt in DotA1, the only problem these days is the fact that the community is hugely more toxic than it was when I was playing DotA1.
There were games hosted for the sole purpose of learning how to play, and I had people come coach us. That was a great time.
Now low levels of LoL are full of new accounts from banned people/people trolling on newbies. And they just abuse them, and give them no chance to learn. It's pathetic.

I doubt Blizzard will fix this in any way.
Blizzard isn't going to polish MOBA's any better.
At the rate that Blizzard is taking to release it, MOBA's will have lost their shine and there will be some new genre that is favored.

[Tietoso]

LoL is the actual tutorial to teach you how to play Dota 2... when you reach the highest level w/e there is in LoL you're ready for lowest priority in Dota 2, GLHF.

i'm a new player to the whole Dota games, when i see Dota2 i see a slow boring realistic looking game.
LoL feels fun and cool.

if u think Dota2 being hard is cool and makes u feel elite let me school u a bit in the way of videogames: Virtua Fighter is the deepest and hardest game out there, but Tekken and mortal Kombat are the ones that everyone plays, hell, smash brothers is played more.

stuff like "hardest" "more complicated" are not stuff that attract players. as long as it is fun, its correctly paced, and cool looking with aesthetics that pull in ppl, the game is gonna be "the best" "most played" and all that other artificial stuff fans like to throw out.

[Yalingo]

Blizzard dota will come out when starcraft ghost does....

[Charge me Doctor]

LoL is the actual tutorial to teach you how to play Dota 2... when you reach the highest level w/e there is in LoL you're ready for lowest priority in Dota 2, GLHF.

LoL prepares you to dota is the same as TF prepares you to battlefield...

Remember that dota was build on WC3 engine which was developed by blizzard? The SC2 engine is awesome to make MOBA and it's different from LoL and dota so i don't see reasons to compare them.
I love the idea behind it, characters from WC, SC, Diablo lore, that's why i will play it. Not because it is "for casuals" or "hardcore". They add many features to look at, they made MOBA that has something new.

[Maelle]

This will become a LoL vs Dota2 thread in

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OT - MOBA games are already "casual" imo, as outside of ranked games there is no driving force to be great at them, other than your own motivation. There is nothing to unlock outside ranked, and no time requirements to complete.

If they make a fun-to-play and intuitive game, people will play it and enjoy it, and if they make a great tutorial even better. Although outside of moving about and basic tactics, playing the game is the only way you can really improve at the genre anyway, you just have to go into it expecting to have your ass handed to you while you learn. (as with every pvp game ever)

[TranceMonster]

i'm a new player to the whole Dota games, when i see Dota2 i see a slow boring realistic looking game.
LoL feels fun and cool.

if u think Dota2 being hard is cool and makes u feel elite let me school u a bit in the way of videogames: Virtua Fighter is the deepest and hardest game out there, but Tekken and mortal Kombat are the ones that everyone plays, hell, smash brothers is played more.

stuff like "hardest" "more complicated" are not stuff that attract players. as long as it is fun, its correctly paced, and cool looking with aesthetics that pull in ppl, the game is gonna be "the best" "most played" and all that other artificial stuff fans like to throw out.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA oookay *wink*

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 06:41 AM ----------

LoL prepares you to dota is the same as TF prepares you to battlefield...

Remember that dota was build on WC3 engine which was developed by blizzard? The SC2 engine is awesome to make MOBA and it's different from LoL and dota so i don't see reasons to compare them.
I love the idea behind it, characters from WC, SC, Diablo lore, that's why i will play it. Not because it is "for casuals" or "hardcore". They add many features to look at, they made MOBA that has something new.

Dota 1 wasnt made by blizzard

[MMKing]

How much more dumbed down and forgiving can Blizzard Allstars possibly be compared to LOL? A large portion of the LOL player base has already seen to it that the MOBA genre is a casual one.

[owbu]

I just hope its "casual" enough, so that the people, who will soon start flamewars in this thread, flame about it on the forums but never ever play it^^
Tried some dota1 and LoL and was fascinated what those guys knew about each others mums and how they could keep playing while inventing so many creative insults.

[yurano]

Now low levels of LoL are full of new accounts from banned people/people trolling on newbies. And they just abuse them, and give them no chance to learn. It's pathetic.

I doubt Blizzard will fix this in any way.

What you just described is inherent to F2P games. Blizzard DOTA is most likely going to be strapped onto a pay to play game (most likely SC2).

[Charge me Doctor]

Dota 1 wasnt made by blizzard

WC3 wasn't made by ice frog
What's you point?

[Zogarth]

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA oookay *wink*

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 06:41 AM ----------



Dota 1 wasnt made by blizzard

Look i also play Dota 2, and i am pretty high rated, but please do not act that immature and make the entire Dota 2 community seem as such. They are different games. As for the skillcap in each game - then i do not think that you are high enough rated in any of the games to comment on that from personal experience, and to compare skillcaps is pretty much impossible. Just respect that both games exsist, and both games are doing really well.

[Henako]

LoL is the actual tutorial to teach you how to play Dota 2... when you reach the highest level w/e there is in LoL you're ready for lowest priority in Dota 2, GLHF.

I'm sure this is just bait, but I'll bite.

Don't even start with this. They're both great games that have two totally different philosophies. Both games play differently, with the focus on different things.

[TranceMonster]

Look i also play Dota 2, and i am pretty high rated, but please do not act that immature and make the entire Dota 2 community seem as such. They are different games. As for the skillcap in each game - then i do not think that you are high enough rated in any of the games to comment on that from personal experience, and to compare skillcaps is pretty much impossible. Just respect that both games exsist, and both games are doing really well.

I'm sure you're high rated. I can just say that too right because I clearly know you and would know how good you are at games, yeah thats what I thought.

[Deleted]

It will probably be deemed as a game for casuals, a dumbed down version of DOTA, or the MOBA for "kiddies", but to me this could potentially be a great game to bring more people into the genre, and eventually transition into some of the more complicated titles. What do you guys think?

If they make it any easier than Dota 2 or HoN, as LoL did (they don't have the deny system and I don't think you even lose gold on death?) then I'm really not interested in it. If they make it the same as Dota 2 and HoN but offer an easier approach for new players to learn it through guides and making sure you don't face smurf accounts and trolls, then I think it might do well.

I doubt all that many will be looking into playing one MOBA game only to learn the genre and then move on to another, I think it would be best to start out with whichever it is you prefer to begin with (usually whichever your friends are playing). If you don't have any friends playing it who can help you along, it can indeed be a very frustrating experience trying to learn the ropes.

[Remilia]

Let's not turn this into a LoL vs DotA vs [input every conceivable game in here].

[Kuntantee]

i'm a new player to the whole Dota games, when i see Dota2 i see a slow boring realistic looking game.
LoL feels fun and cool.

if u think Dota2 being hard is cool and makes u feel elite let me school u a bit in the way of videogames: Virtua Fighter is the deepest and hardest game out there, but Tekken and mortal Kombat are the ones that everyone plays, hell, smash brothers is played more.

stuff like "hardest" "more complicated" are not stuff that attract players. as long as it is fun, its correctly paced, and cool looking with aesthetics that pull in ppl, the game is gonna be "the best" "most played" and all that other artificial stuff fans like to throw out.

DotA's(you can count DotA 2 as well if you wish) only Asian(or only China player base :>) player base is much more than world-wide population of LoL.

About OT, LoL is already casual as one game can get. If Blizz Allstars gonna be mora casual, they better put it into Facebook.

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 11:07 AM ----------

I'm sure this is just bait, but I'll bite.

Don't even start with this. They're both great games that have two totally different philosophies. Both games play differently, with the focus on different things.

well a bit offtopic but that's what LoL players say. In fact, they are not different games. LoL is shallow version of DotA. If you call shallowness a philosophy, then yes they have different philosophies. I am not bashing LoL tho, I played it with my friends and enjoyed.

[ddsad2212]

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA oookay *wink*

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 06:41 AM ----------



Dota 1 wasnt made by blizzard

He never actually said it was, he said it was developed in an engine made by blizzard

---------- Post added 2013-05-15 at 09:50 AM ----------

Its a shame people cant just play the game they like a Stfu about what everyone else plays. Because honestly if you play a game just due to its complexity and not due to how much fun you have while playing it you are doing it wrong and you should instead take up solving maths equations as a pass time