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  1. #221
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    First they came for the communists,
    and I thought it would be a slippery slope to assume that they will come for some other group.
    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I thought it would be a slippery slope to assume that they will come for another group.
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I thought it would be a slippery slope to assume that they will come for me next.
    Then they came for me,
    and there were no slippery slopes left.
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  2. #222
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    This is a partisan myth. Please keep your responses based in reality.
    Not really, I see it all the time. I try to avoid such people, but they're like leeches.

  3. #223
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    Not really, I see it all the time. I try to avoid such people, but they're like leeches.
    Your anecdotal experiences do not encompass the complete picture.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    First they came for the communists,
    and I thought it would be a slippery slope to assume that they will come for some other group.
    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I thought it would be a slippery slope to assume that they will come for another group.
    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I thought it would be a slippery slope to assume that they will come for me next.
    Then they came for me,
    and there were no slippery slopes left.
    You messed it up.... It would be:

    First it would be a slippery slope to assume that they will come for the communists,
    and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 08:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    Not really, I see it all the time. I try to avoid such people, but they're like leeches.
    How do you see something all the time, while trying to avoid it? It seems that at least, your avoidance methods are a failure.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 08:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Your anecdotal experiences do not encompass the complete picture.
    Look at all the freeloaders in China and tell me communism isn't indicative of freeloaders.
    Go Hawks!!!!

  5. #225
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    Not really, I see it all the time. I try to avoid such people, but they're like leeches.
    That doesn't make it true, or credible. Abuse of welfarestatus is a minority.
    WBMA - Leave our beards alone

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  6. #226
    Epic! fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    In theory that might work, but it hasn't been working in reality. Instead the poor just get on welfare and drain the resources of hard-working people, while refusing to put any effort to improve their own social standing. Meanwhile that money we're giving to the poor has to come from somewhere; the people who actually work.
    It's funny, other countries have welfare programs and still maintain reasonable budgets. Perhaps the US problems actually come from its military costs, ineffecient healthcare system and corporate subsidies?

  7. #227
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    Seriously though, someone already payed taxes on that estate? Why should something be taxed twice? Seems like a cheap attempt to put a temporary band-aid on our reckless spending problem.
    No. It isn't double taxation. No more than any other kind of taxation. You get taxed on income, for instance, and then taxed on stuff you buy, via sales tax. This does not mean your income was taxed twice, it means your income was taxed once and your purchase was taxed once.

    For estate tax, your income is taxed once, and then your estate is taxed once. There is no double taxation. Not only that, but there isn't even a problem with double taxation; in Canada, for instance, you pay income tax both federally and provincially.

    So not only are you incorrect in claiming that it's double taxation, even if it were, that wouldn't be an argument against it in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Daishi View Post
    The state isn't supposed to give the lower (or upper for that matter) classes special treatment, it's suppose to treat everyone equally, no?
    No. I have no idea where you got that idea, because it hasn't been true of any Western government for the better part of a century.

    Governments typically don't allow themselves to treat people differently based on protected classes, but economic standing is not a protected class. This is why you can't tax someone more because they're black, but you can tax someone more because they're rich. Because "being rich" is not a protected class.

  8. #228
    I think OP doesnt realy understand what USSR was.

  9. #229
    Epic! fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I think OP doesnt realy understand what USSR was.
    Arguably the bigger issue is his grasp on modern day US.

  10. #230
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    You messed it up.... It would be:
    Nope, You are just in denial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    Look at all the freeloaders in China and tell me communism isn't indicative of freeloaders.
    What about US citizens living on welfare? Like millions of them? Freeloaders, right?
    Also there's no communism in China.
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  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I'm not sure why you insist on focusing on differences that are only tangentially related to the topic at hand. This isn't about left vs right but top (authoritarian) vs bottom (anarchist).

    The US used to be quite centrist in that regard, but it has lately been moving towards the top where the USSR was. Do you deny this?
    Yes, I deny this. For the reason why I deny this, place read through my posts up to this point in the thread. Any other questions?

    Oh, and trying to iron a political system into "anarchist" or "authoritarian" is so far out there that I don't even know how to respond. Governments are immensely multifaceted.
    “…the whole trouble lies here. In words, words. Each one of us has within him a whole world of things, each man of us his own special world. And how can we ever come to an understanding if I put in the words I utter the sense and value of things as I see them; while you who listen to me must inevitably translate them according to the conception of things each one of you has within himself. We think we understand each other, but we never really do.”
    XKCD is always relevant. Always.

  12. #232
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Arguably the bigger issue is his grasp on modern day US.
    A long running issue with Laize.
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  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    I'm fairly certain that they, having lived through the USSR (One was born in the 1930s) would know plenty about it. The younger of them is actually quite technologically savvy and in his 40s so he's not that old.

    The fact is that the Soviets had a Constitution that granted some great rights on paper. The problem was it was JUST a piece of paper. If you can explain to me how it's different that the US Executive offices can conduct searches of your person, property or correspondence without a warrant ISN'T near enough as makes no difference to what the USSR did, I am all ears.
    Ah, Stalin, sorry, but that guy was just a plain arse, I mean, if the armenian genocide, nor the holocaust had happened he had won the title of the biggest murderer by miles. (Katyn, 5year plan, ethnic cleansing (or resettlement but it was cleansing) , cleansing of the army etc etc)
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  14. #234
    If you are trying to argue that certain constitutional rights is being disregarded in certain situations and that's a bad thing then, sure.

    May I ask why you so desperately want to link it to the USSR while denying you are trying to make a slippery slope argument? If you aren't then why make the comparison?

    You can discuss why the reaction to the breach of rights isn't bringing out a stronger reaction but, again, USSR, why?

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Nope, You are just in denial.
    I don't think you understand what that quote means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    What about US citizens living on welfare? Like millions of them? Freeloaders, right?
    Also there's no communism in China.
    You mean like the person I was responding to? No communism in China? Nice...

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 01:40 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by fengosa View Post
    Arguably the bigger issue is his grasp on modern day US.
    Which is interesting when you consider the 70 year old men he talked to, probably have forgotten more than I remember. While I remember a lot...
    Go Hawks!!!!

  16. #236
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    I don't think
    I get that.
    You implied that they "didn't come for communists yet" (as in "violated any part of the constitution"). That is clearly nonsense - because they did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    No communism in China? Nice...
    Can you show me where exactly in China communism is located?

    And freeloaders are everywhere - no matter what economic system you use.


    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    Which is interesting when you consider the 70 year old men he talked to, probably have forgotten more than I remember. While I remember a lot...
    You were born in 1979. USSR officially ended in 1991. Unofficially it was going down since 1985. You have no experience of USSR, you only experienced its agony, briefly as a kid - not even a teenager. And you have the nerve to suggest that that 70 old has bad memory.
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  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I get that.
    You implied that they "didn't come for communists yet" (as in "violated any part of the constitution"). That is clearly nonsense - because they did.
    No, I am not implying anything. Even if you want to hinge your bets on McCarthiesm, it ended decades ago. It would mean the opposite of US turning into USSR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Can you show me where exactly in China communism is located?
    How about on the government owned land that is specifically designated for foreign commerce?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    And freeloaders are everywhere - no matter what economic system you use.
    The fact that this should be directed at the person I was responding to, hasn't changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    You were born in 1979. USSR officially ended in 1991. Unofficially it was going down since 1985. You have no experience of USSR, you only experienced its agony, briefly as a kid - not even a teenager. And you have the nerve to suggest that that 70 old has bad memory.
    Yeah, imagine that, you have the nerve to suggest I spent no time in USSR and I suggested that old people have bad memory. What an ass hole I am... Just a heads up as well, 'I forgot more than you'll ever know' is an old country song.
    Go Hawks!!!!

  18. #238
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    No, I am not implying anything.
    Yeah, right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    How about on the government owned land that is specifically designated for foreign commerce?
    I don't see it. Do you have the exact address?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    The fact that this should be directed at the person I was responding to, hasn't changed.
    That's irrelevant. You claimed that communism and freeloaders come hand in hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    Yeah, imagine that, you have the nerve to suggest I spent no time in USSR
    Nope, I suggested no such thing. Read again. You have no experience of USSR even if you were physically inside the borders of a country that was still called USSR at the time of you being in there.

    It's like you read just the epilogue and then claimed you know what the rest of the book was like.

    Infracted - please be respectful towards other posters
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2013-05-18 at 04:08 AM.
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  19. #239
    Dreadlord Espe's Avatar
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    This is the same guy who brags about "getting away with" a DUI, right?

    Laizy, maybe you should focus on what you need to do to become a better person instead of spouting off right-wing conspiracy theories on gaming forums. I know the conservatives are desperate to pander to their racist, misogynistic, homophobic base but comparing the US to the USSR is taking that whole shtick a bit far. If you truly cared about freedom you wouldn't align yourself with the conservative bigots.

    Infracted - please do not harass other posters
    Last edited by Kasierith; 2013-05-18 at 04:15 AM.
    Just a few examples of typical conservatives. Read at your own risk:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    Totally cool with abortion in rape scenarios, but making it widely available or expecting employers to provide it incentivizes women to whore themselves out and creates a nuisance
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    The reason many people are poor is because they DONT save any spare money they have. They blow it on things to entertain them or make them happy

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Nevermind that article is flagged for bias and opinion... it's based completely on a false premise.

    Obviously, slippery slopes are not logical reasonings to find absolutes but rather theoretical posibility based upon tolerance of many small changes vs resistances to large changes to arrive at the same conclusion. I've always found it well established that it is easier to progressively lead people from A to B, B to C, etc.. than it is to lead someone from A to Z. Slippery slope is just a metaphor to illustrate the vulnerability and exploitability of that human trait.

    For example, if someone wants your help to move furniture (C) but you would normally not go over do it (A), they are far more likely to have success if they find a way to get you there first (B) and then ask you to do it. It does not guarantee a result, but each step incrementally removes obstacles (namely from relative reasoning) from the desired result. Moral of the story - don't take steps in the direction to a destination you do not want to tread unless very clearly defined lines are drawn.

    "Slippery Slope" is recognition of a tendency, not a reasoning to determine destination as the article suggests. As to wether or not the USA is incementally becoming more like the USSR, that's debatable. My concern is more along the lines of our migration to positive liberties, in contrast to our constitution of negative liberties, as one issue with the USSR is that their constitution promised more from the government than was practical. The point - pay attention to where you are going and not just to where you are.

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