Topless women not breaking the law in NY

[Uennie]

LMFAO and again you only quote the first half of the sentence, it's obvious you get quoted when you quote the wrong shit son, quote the whole sentence and see if it makes a difference, try again.

If you quote half a sentence people only see half the sentence, just a wee heads up.

That part of the sentence is the part that matters. I explained that over and over that if you just say I'm "pro-female" so there's no point, that's a different issue.

You said there was no point because you said that you just realized I was a woman, you can't possibly be that far in denial. NOT because I was "pro-female", but because I was a WOMAN.

[Austilias]

No he didn't imply that at all with he's steaks and slut examples at all...

The implication was that the way a woman dresses can be one reason why a woman might be raped; he said himself that there are countless variables that can factor into an instance of rape. If you want to be the individual to profess that no rape has ever taken place because of how a woman dressed, make my day.

[Deleted]

There are several places - even in the western world - where breasts do not initiate arousal. It's common in many areas in Europe, and I don't need to mention the topless tribes elsewhere.

First of all, i would like to restrict our debate to our own western culture. I believe there are major equality issues in other cultures between men and women to make any discussion about this frivolous matter viable at all, if not downright insulting.
Sure, there are places (nudist beaches for example) where nudity doesn't offend anyone.
I am pretty sure the overwhelming majority of males are aroused by it though. So I don't think you should take such limited cases as example.
This might sound offensive to some, but in MANY of these places you mentioned, there is a great deal of sexuality involved.

[Surfd]

It reminds me of the last era, 1900 onwards.

Legs of women were seen as extremely attractive, but also very indecent if shown in public - breasts were never really shown, and even in a relationship - most couples in that era were extremely modest in sexual intercourse and clothing themselves during the said act.

My point im attempting to convey is that it's a social construct largely, legs were the forbidden fruit in the 19xx era until women were legislated iirc to be allowed to wear shorts or the like and nowadays it's breasts.

I'm probably not speaking clearly, but i am tired

Pretty much this. Every time someone goes on a rant about the collapse of society and how all these terrible women want to ruin our upstanding culture even more by going topless or some crazy shit, I just picture the good old days of times gone by, where the idea of catching a woman in her "bathing suit" (which at that point had about as much fabric in it as your average tent) was considered sexy and risqe. And ZOMG, dont even get me started on those filthy harlots showing off their ankles or calves. Hide that shit under your dress the size of a small table you tawdry skank!

Seriously. One of these days men as a whole will stop seeing women almost entirely as a sex object first, and a human being second, but I expect that will be shortly after we discover life on other planets (mainly because then we will have more intersting things to obsess over). Assuming of course that we haven't already obliterated ourselves due to religous intolerance or racial squabbling.

[Uennie]

First of all, i would like to restrict our debate to our own western culture. I believe there are major equality issues in other cultures between men and women to make any discussion about this frivolous matter viable at all, if not downright insulting.
Sure, there are places (nudist beaches for example) where nudity doesn't offend anyone.
I am pretty sure the overwhelming majority of males are aroused by it though. So I don't think you should take such limited cases as example.
This might sound offensive to some, but in MANY of these places you mentioned, there is a great deal of sexuality involved.

In Australia there's breasts on TV after 7:30, in Europe it's all over the place boobs are no big deal.

That's the western world. Can't just pick America, sorry.

[Naoto]

That part of the sentence is the part that matters. I explained that over and over that if you just say I'm "pro-female" so there's no point, that's a different issue.

You said there was no point because you said that you just realized I was a woman, you can't possibly be that far in denial. NOT because I was "pro-female", but because I was a WOMAN.

I said try again, you still failed, a sentence is a sentence and you can't just pick it apart and read the bits you want to read so again, try again.

I already told you I don't stop talking to someone because they are female, you think I'm that gay? what part of that can you not grasp, you confirmed you're a she then I can call you a pro-female because guess what, I can't call someone a pro-female if I don't know they are actually female right? gag on it.

[Surfd]

Do you also have a penis? therefore you are different, are black men the same as white men? they have two ears and shit as well right? why do people act like being different is such a bad thing? I consider myself different to women yet I don't cry, what's the problem? if you honest to god believe everyone is the same I feel sorry for you.

I do happen to have a penis. I simply don't let it do my thinking for me. You should try it some time.

[Simca]

I said try again, you still failed, a sentence is a sentence and you can't just pick it apart and read the bits you want to read so again, try again.

In Australia there's breasts on TV after 7:30, in Europe it's all over the place boobs are no big deal.

That's the western world. Can't just pick America, sorry.

You two should probably drop this particular argument with each other because I don't think it will ever end otherwise.

Whatever was said or wasn't said, I'm pretty sure Naoto has clarified what he meant by his statement, and if he's secretly lying and actually does want to not talk to you because you're female, then that's his loss.

[Naoto]

I do happen to have a penis. I simply don't let it do my thinking for me. You should try it some time.

Surely if I did I'd love to see topless men about the street, yet I'm against it so.....I'm confused? difference with breasts on tv is you can switch it off, if I'm chewing on a burger in McDonalds and I'm surrounded by tits can I just turn it off?

[paralleluniverse]

If you legitimately think the bold (especially underlined) is true, it's just self-confirmation bias.

The genders are not identical, but they're not very far apart or different, either. Their minor differences are blown wildly out of proportion by society, so that's why the "liberal 'we're all really the same' bullshit" philosophy exists. It's an intentional exaggeration to juxtapose against the current system

As with every other mainstream issue in society, everyone is divided into two camps: they either think men and women are different species - unable to communicate with each other, live without each other, and completely dissimilar in every way - or they think that men and women are completely identical and have no differences. As usual, the reality is in the middle (though it's closer to the 'identical' side than the 'totally dissimilar' side).

The last thing we need is more "social values" for men and women. The problem is that in trying to refute existing social norms, some people rebel by doing the exact opposite of what the old social roles were, which gets them into conflict and creates the type of situations that seem to have defined your experience with one of the genders.

They need to understand that if they try to push change too quickly, they actually end up slowing it and potentially halting it flat-out because they'll draw massive amounts of negative attention from conservative groups.

This is tangential to the main point of this thread.

Men and women are different and experiments and studies have been use to show that they have different preferences. For example, it's no coincidence that women prefer, on average, "social" work more so than "technical" work. And the freer the society is (e.g. Scandinavian countries), the more women tend to freely choose "traditional roles". It's just evolutionary biology.

But that doesn't change the fact that we should treat women equally. And the topic here is a matter of equalizing laws between men and women. And we should push for equality, wherever there is discrimination, whether it's women's pay or work benefits or their right to vote.

Yes, men and women are different. But we should treat them as equal under the law, and remove barriers for women where they exist.

[Deleted]

But Uennie, Djalil doesn't live in those societies, obviously they don't count!

If like to keep this debate not personal.
Your post is very confusing I don't know what you mean.

[Uennie]

[QUOTE=Naoto;21165944]I said try again, you still failed, a sentence is a sentence and you can't just pick it apart and read the bits you want to read so again, try again.[/QUOTE]

So you're going to ignore where other people agreed correct.

Fine let's take the whole sentence.

"Anyway now I know you're a she I ain't going to bother because it's clear to see you're the pro female type so have fun. "

Now I know you're a woman, I'm not going to bother because you're pro-female.

That's what you said, if you want to be clever and try to break it down. It indicates that were I a male, you would be more than willing to have the conversation with me. Other people have said it, you quoted one of them. You demeaned my opinion as not being worth the bother because I am a woman.

The statement was blatantly sexist.

Didn't see Simca's post before posting. Sorry Simca.

[Deleted]

Surely if I did I'd love to see topless men about the street, yet I'm against it so.....I'm confused? difference with breasts on tv is you can switch it off, if I'm chewing on a burger in McDonalds and I'm surrounded by tits can I just turn it off?

Nobody is forcing you stare at breasts, you can look somewhere else.

[Naoto]

So you're going to ignore where other people agreed correct.

Fine let's take the whole sentence.

"Anyway now I know you're a she I ain't going to bother because it's clear to see you're the pro female type so have fun. "

Now I know you're a woman, I'm not going to bother because you're pro-female.

That's what you said, if you want to be clever and try to break it down. It indicates that were I a male, you would be more than willing to have the conversation with me. Other people have said it, you quoted one of them. You demeaned my opinion as not being worth the bother because I am a woman.

The statement was blatantly sexist.

People agree with you BECAUSE YOU QUOTE HALF A SENTENCE.

I already explained what I said up there and we got told to shut the fuck up by a mod and I couldn't agree more, you can't grasp what a sentence means and pick them apart as you please, I said now I know you're a she I'm going to stop talking because you're a pro female, grasp it, gag on it, hell do whatever you want with it.

I said that an hour or two ago and guess what, I'm still talking to you so..............

Since I'm such a nice guy hit me up on PM I'll talk you through it and maybe use Google translate and give you it in another couple of languages or over Skype, hell I might even learn sign language just to tell you that way as well.

[Deleted]

In Australia there's breasts on TV after 7:30, in Europe it's all over the place boobs are no big deal.

That's the western world. Can't just pick America, sorry.

I'm European, and boobs aren't everywhere. This is a lie. A fair and square lie.

[Muzjhath]

Naoto. You are missing her point.
You wrote that "Oh, you're a woman, and pro-female, I really don't need to bother with you". If in different words.
And the important part of that sentence is the first4 (or 5 if counting inflictions) words. Not the latter half, the first.
The fact that you're missing this, shows exactly why you have a problem with the debate. Had it been "I see you're pro-female, thus I see no point in discussing this" it would have been a non issue. Yet you had to mention that she was a she.
She had also before that post said things that were "pro-male equal rights" as well. In regards to violent relationships.

Also Djalil, as for "boobs are always sexual in the west". We've at times get full frontal nudity (both genders) on TV here in Sweden by 1800. Nothing no-one's ever seen before.
In non sexual situations.

If you can't see exposed female breasts without your loin stirring I honestly feel a bit bad for you.

[paralleluniverse]

Surely if I did I'd love to see topless men about the street, yet I'm against it so.....I'm confused? difference with breasts on tv is you can switch it off, if I'm chewing on a burger in McDonalds and I'm surrounded by tits can I just turn it off?

Let's get this straight.

1. Do you support allowing men to be topless in public? Yes/no?
2. Do you support allowing women to be topless in public? Yes/no?

[Simca]

As usual, someone comes alone to overgeneralise "everyone".

Yes, I love the irony therefore I must. (No, actually, it wasn't intentional to use the phrase "everyone", I wanted to use "the majority of people", but I type in an ironic context so often that I just replaced the phrases mentally, apparently.)

Though, MMO-Champion would be vastly improved if they allowed you to draw Venn diagrams and graphs directly in your posts. Let me make some and explain my point.

[Redblade]

The implication was that the way a woman dresses can be one reason why a woman might be raped; he said himself that there are countless variables that can factor into an instance of rape.

You are right it can be one of the reasons, still doesn't justify it.

If you want to be the individual to profess that no rape has ever taken place because of how a woman dressed, make my day.

I'm not claiming anything of the sorts, I'm not the one replying with...

Of course they do, jesus fucking christ!

If you strap steaks onto yourself, and jump into a Lions Pen, you're going to get killed. If you dress like a slut, you're going to be treated like a slut.

To...

people obviously deserve to become the target of abuse because of how they are dressed.

Clearly implying that rape committed due to the woman dressing and behaving like a "slut" is justified, as he thinks they deserve to become targets...

[Uennie]

I'm European, and boobs aren't everywhere. This is a lie. A fair and square lie.

Really, I see them all the time and I spend a fair time in Europe. Maybe I'm only in the super rad mega x-treme areas.