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  1. #1

    Normal mode as Heroic mode and Heroic mode as impossible mode

    I want heroic Raids to be hard and challenging. When i taking a break during 5.2 Many guilds were 12/12 normal and i was quite surprise of this.When heroic runs came i think it took about 4 weeks for guilds to be 13/13. Blizz needs to change this playstyle and make it so that when a new raid comes, normal mode will be hard as an heroic mode and Heroic mode as impossible mode. But doing this at the same time will affect the casuals so idk what hell is going on.

  2. #2
    Are you a hardcore raider? Do you actively raid heroic modes during progression time?
    No?
    Then please, dont advise changes on something you do not take part in.

    heroic modes are tuned just fine, and so are normals. Just because people are skilled enough to clear content fast does not mean that content is too easy v

  3. #3
    all that means is the top guilds will either

    A) never clear the content until a few patches/expansions of extra gear OR
    B) only clear the content when everyone has full BiS.

    either way you're asking for a pure inability to kill bosses due to gear.

  4. #4
    Content at the moment is not easier than before. It is just not tuned mathematically impossible anymore. Also there are way less bugs that stop people from killing it. Also the time investment from hardcore guilds is quite massive! The rest of the raiding community does not clear heroic modes in 2 weeks + 2 for ra'den.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    ...Dude just...sit down, where are YOU at in heroic modes right now?

    Because only SIXTY Guilds are at 13/13 right now. Sixty, out of what, over 8000+ ? And that's just in the West! (Some Asian regions have faster lockout periods)

    Crickey, if you need a harder challenge I suggest playing one of those grind-a-thon Korean MMO's with 10 hour boss encounters...

    This stuff is tuned fine. An 'impossible' mode would only be seen by a very very small handful of players, hell even normal mode is a relatively small demographic in WoW's grand scheme.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  6. #6
    Legendary! Chickat's Avatar
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    I want to eiter see 10 mans becoming easier and rewarding 6 item levels lower, or a difficulty below normal mode but not queueable so that you can have pugs again. Make it rewward 3-8 item levels lower
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I want to eiter see 10 mans becoming easier and rewarding 6 item levels lower, or a difficulty below normal mode but not queueable so that you can have pugs again. Make it rewward 3-8 item levels lower
    You can pug 10 or 25m as it is.

  8. #8
    I'm just saying there needs to be raids that are just epicly harder as well for lore xD

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 10:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Anakonda View Post
    Are you a hardcore raider? Do you actively raid heroic modes during progression time?
    No?
    Then please, dont advise changes on something you do not take part in.

    heroic modes are tuned just fine, and so are normals. Just because people are skilled enough to clear content fast does not mean that content is too easy v
    That makes no sense "just because people are skilled enough to clear content fast does not mean that content is too easy" if they are skilled doesn't that mean it IS easy for them. Think about that ok?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by oggyowl View Post
    You can pug 10 or 25m as it is.
    Only if you bring mostly heroic raider alts.

  10. #10
    I would personally love the idea, but I'm also reasonable enough to understand that not many people share this sentiment :T

    My dream would be a super heroic boss that would be hard, even by the end of tier X+2 (end of expac), except it's implemented during tier X. He doesn't have to drop anything. Make it a mechanically complex boss with a Dark Animus mathematical style, add Imperial Vizier dances (lots of them), add Lei Shen mechanics where you can choose how to play the fight.

    The fight would simply never go down until at least a few patches, and even the most hardcore guilds would stop raiding 24/7 on him as they would realise it's impossible. But one day..... dedicated people would manage a huge feat.

    What I miss in the current model is the "whoooaaaa" feeling that I had when defeating some huge lore figures for the first time back in the day. I didn't feel anything particular when killing some bosses on heroic.... because I had already defeated them in normal... and our skill level has evolved so much that even the mechanically complex fights of today can be regarded as pretty easy.
    Last edited by Mionelol; 2013-05-18 at 03:11 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    I would personally love the idea, but I'm also reasonable enough to understand that not many people share this sentiment :T

    My dream would be a super heroic boss that would be hard, even by the end of tier X+2 (end of expac), except it's implemented during tier X. He doesn't have to drop anything. Make it a mechanically complex boss with a Dark Animus mathematical style, add Imperial Vizier dances (lots of them), add Lei Shen mechanics where you can choose how to play the fight.

    The fight would simply never go down until at least a few patches, and even the most hardcore guilds would stop raiding 24/7 on him as they would realise it's impossible. But one day..... dedicated people would manage a huge feat.

    What I miss in the current model is the "whoooaaaa" feeling that I had when defeating some huge lore figures for the first time back in the day. I didn't feel anything particular when killing some bosses on heroic.... because I had already defeated them in normal... and our skill level has evolved so much that even the mechanically complex fights of today can be regarded as pretty easy.
    Exactly how i feel^^

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer shise's Avatar
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    To be honest this is good as it is.

    Heroic is actually heroic, most of guilds haven't cleared it yet.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Redhawke View Post
    I'm just saying there needs to be raids that are just epicly harder as well for lore xD

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 10:00 AM ----------


    That makes no sense "just because people are skilled enough to clear content fast does not mean that content is too easy" if they are skilled doesn't that mean it IS easy for them. Think about that ok?
    Maybe you should take your own advice and think before posting. No-one in any of the top-end guilds thought Lei Shen heroic was easy, no-one thought Ragnaros heroic was easy, no-one thought Al'akir heroic was easy....you're just posting this "everything is easy" garbage without any sort of data to back it up. You say content is easy now because top-end guilds cleared ToT in around 4 weeks? Is that your argument for making content harder than it is? Do you even know how much time guilds are putting in now compared to previous expansions? Hell, iirc Black Temple was cleared within 2 weeks of it releasing back in TBC...the expansion that more often than not people like you hail as the epitome of hard raids and encounters.

    Blizzard listened to the "we want harder content" crowd in early Cataclysm and it bit them back very hard. They will never make that mistake again...there will be hard content sure, but there will also be an alternative easier mode for everyone to experience. If you can't deal with that, leave.

    This content tier is well-tuned now (especially after the early hotfixes to some encounters in both raid sizes) and I expect them to continue this trend in 5.4 and beyond.

  14. #14
    lets look at it this way. It took Method 36 days of raiding 14-16 hours a day to full clear. so with some simple math thats 540 hours of raiding. for my guild that raids 16 hours a week wed get it down on the 3rd day of our 33rd week or raiding thats like 8 months or raid time for my guild. they put that much time in 5 weeks... so yeah its not thats its easier its that people go to new extremes to be world first. its also the reason both vodka and exodus fell apart. you can only keep that up for so long.

  15. #15
    Your title describes how raids are right now.
    Wh-what are you doing here!? G-go away!
    I don't want to see you anymore!
    Stay away from me!
    That's what Shi said.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jjokubauskas View Post
    lets look at it this way. It took Method 36 days of raiding 14-16 hours a day to full clear. so with some simple math thats 540 hours of raiding. for my guild that raids 16 hours a week wed get it down on the 3rd day of our 33rd week or raiding thats like 8 months or raid time for my guild. they put that much time in 5 weeks... so yeah its not thats its easier its that people go to new extremes to be world first. its also the reason both vodka and exodus fell apart. you can only keep that up for so long.
    also to add onto this raiding part, Ra-den wasnt even done properly. It was the easier way, meaning it could have easily extended the length by weeks, where it wouldnt matter how much time they threw at it or anyone at that

  17. #17
    funny that people who has never even step into heroic throne ask the instance to be made harder..its tuned difficult enough already. how about you go and try it? lets see how easily you clear it on heroic

  18. #18
    Considering myself average, but in an above-average guild, and I think current heroic fights are insanely hard (3/13 atm).. OP, not sure what you're on about.

  19. #19
    Blademaster Prokk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhawke View Post
    idk what hell is going on.

    I think you made that obvious.

    "I am Rei Shen, prease!!"

  20. #20
    That sounds like something an observer says, not playing but wondering how some guilds finish content fast...

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