Vanguards opinion "locks top 5.3 class"

[Novx]

It's solely to show Warlock's damage.

That isn't even a lot of damage, I can burst someone far faster then that. Put a rogue on me though and I'll never get a CB off if they have even half a brain.

[Lulbalance]

Looking at that doesn't really tell you much aside from which classes are good in a number of different comps/settings

Locks are very strong in specific comps but you can't just throw them in anywhere like you can with a Spriest.

no you can't..wtf? lol. next patch maybe.

[Deleted]

Playing destro in wpvp will be a pain in the ass. Destros do good damage when hitting targets with low resilience with CB. Since people will have at least 65% base resilience, CBs won't mean much there. Seeing many locks going demo.

[Reith]

he does this alot.. rets are always horrible according van, lol

He never thought they were bad in WOTLK. The second half of cata was pretty good for ret too. MoP has just been bad for ret in pvp though with the talent gutting it got.

[deathlich]

It's solely to show Warlock's damage.

Boomkin did all the work there..

[Seezer]

Locks bring a TON of utility, not to mention THAT DAMAGE

It's not "THAT DAMAGE". It's "DAT DAMAGE".

[ComputerNerd]

Any video or demonstration highlighting excessive damage numbers has to be taken with a grain of salt, in fact with a whole packet of salt.
Most are simply conveniently selected portions against undergeared, unprepared opponents or simply waiting for the perfect set of buffs.
Show an entire arena or battleground match against similarly geared and skilled opponents rather than a carefully chosen 18 second segment with such a dps output being only from the warlock and only then can they have any credibility.

[Nyaldee]

On my BG (russian one) there're quite a few fearsome locks, but... none of them are playing affliction as a primary spec - they're all destro. Imo destro isn't as bad now as ppls make it out to be and i don't think affliction will overcome destro with minor buff it's getting - difference is survivability is huge, especially if you consider no need to lifetap and ember tap for "oh shit" moments. Destro isn't as flexible as affli of the past, but there're some setups where it is perfectly viable. The main difference between specs is that destro can punish real hard when left alone and a string of instants hurt really bad.

Tbh given full talent tier dedicated to effects at the cost of warlocks health i can't fathom why lifetap is still in game. Long ago lifetap was signature spell that allowed lock to last longer then any caster, now everyone have infinite mana and locks still pay a cost for their one.

[Yvaelle]

Looking at that doesn't really tell you much aside from which classes are good in a number of different comps/settings

Locks are very strong in specific comps but you can't just throw them in anywhere like you can with a Spriest.

In 3's at gladiator+ rating, it's like 80%+ of Shadowpriests are either Shadow/Fmage/Rdruid or Shadow/Fmage/Rsham - we have probably the worst comp diversity of any competitive spec right now. Locks have MLD / MLS / Shadowcleave / RLS - not much - but comp diversity in MoP is probably the worst it has ever been (for everybody).

[Deleted]

In 3's at gladiator+ rating, it's like 80%+ of Shadowpriests are either Shadow/Fmage/Rdruid or Shadow/Fmage/Rsham - we have probably the worst comp diversity of any competitive spec right now. Locks have MLD / MLS / Shadowcleave / RLS - not much - but comp diversity in MoP is probably the worst it has ever been (for everybody).

With spriest/mage/resto being an absolutely viable comp I have a feeling that even if spriest had some more viable comps (like spriest/unholy/x is) most top players will still stick to godcomp. Locks might have a bigger diversity but since destro only is viable all his specs can and probably work better with a mage spriest: RPS, RMP, again unholyplay/godcomp...

[BLVCK]

wtf? what part of that led you to believe that i was talking about this patch only? also - rets are much less shitty than locks - head to head doesnt mean sh*t. Hpal on the other hand..

i think this is a pretty bold claim

[Yvaelle]

With spriest/mage/resto being an absolutely viable comp I have a feeling that even if spriest had some more viable comps (like spriest/unholy/x is) most top players will still stick to godcomp. Locks might have a bigger diversity but since destro only is viable all his specs can and probably work better with a mage spriest: RPS, RMP, again unholyplay/godcomp...

Unholyplay (Shadow/Unholy/Rsham) isn't a top comp, it has only 0.58% of teams over 2200 - just below Shadow/Unholy/BM Hunter, and Disc/Rsham/Feral (two comps I've never even seen this season, if ever). Unlike Shadowcleave (Lock/Unholy/Rsham) which is a top comp, Unholyplay doesn't have enough real CC and peels to be competitive at high end. I'd love to see Unholyplay make a comeback, it's a very fun comp - but this is not that season.

Regarding Warlocks, while Destruction is much more common above 2200 - the top warlock in the world is Affliction - and Affliction is 4 of the top 10 warlocks in the world (4 Destruction, 2 Demo - which is a surprisingly even split - the most balanced of any class between specs I'm pretty sure).

RPS is better than RLS at the moment, agreed (though I can't figure out why, RLS by all logic should be back right now - and yet it has remained absent - maybe all the rogues are playing RMP / Thugcleave).

RMP is not a spriest comp.... not even sure which comp you might have meant by this. Unholyplay is half of what Shadowcleave is. Shatreeplay / Shatterplay and MLD / MLS are equally capable comps right now IMO.

[Snuggli]

just below Shadow/Unholy/BM Hunter, and Disc/Rsham/Feral (two comps I've never even seen this season, if ever)

This is when Worldofwargraphs (or whichever site you looked at) logs the people in the wrong specs. Shadow/Unholy/BM is likely PHD with a priest, and the Disc/Feral/Sham is likely Shadow/Feral/Resto. A lot of the sub 1% comps are just mislogged comps.

Also, RPS is way way way above every other comp on representation above 2200. It's got nearly 8% average rep above 2200, next comp after that is shatterplay with 2.9%.

But yeah, Spriest is very much a class that you have to put alongside whatever is FotM. It isn't exactly a comp builder, it's a comp filler. In the same way you don't build a comp around Boomkins, or Elemental Shamans. It can be seen pretty easily: Last patch there was WPS, FPS and Warrior/Boomkin/X, Ferals and Warriors got nerfed so those comps aren't played anymore. We still have shatterplay which revolves around the Mage globalling healers, and since Rogues got buffed there is now RPS, RPD and dancing with the stars.

The fact that filler classes can't build comps means their diversity is limited to however many FoTM classes there are in that season. If DKs are insanely strong next season, the only viable Spriest comp would be priest shadowcleave.

[Nicola]

Regarding Warlocks, while Destruction is much more common above 2200 - the top warlock in the world is Affliction - and Affliction is 4 of the top 10 warlocks in the world (4 Destruction, 2 Demo - which is a surprisingly even split - the most balanced of any class between specs I'm pretty sure).

RPS is better than RLS at the moment, agreed (though I can't figure out why, RLS by all logic should be back right now - and yet it has remained absent - maybe all the rogues are playing RMP / Thugcleave).

Looking at such a small number is obviously going to give wrong numbers. It's like looking at a farm and seeing 4 brown horses and 1 white horse and assuming 20% of the horses are white and 80% are brown.

As for your RLS problem, the difference between now and cataclysm, is that the warlock can no longer tank all the damage and put out so much pressure. In cataclysm, you were almost forced to tunnel the warlock because else they'd just rot your team away which was fine, since they could handle all the damage. Going for the rogue wasn't a real option since the warlock would just peel for him or he'd just use one of his many cooldowns.
But now, the warlock lacks the pressure to force the other team to tunnel and the ability to just tank all game long. The rogue has to waste to much time peeling for the warlock and the warlock itself has too little pressure going on to rot the other team away.

And while RPS ain't as good as the cataclysm RLS, it's better than the current RLS, hence why you see the comp so little.

[TJ]

Lock's damage on the ptr seems too high, but I guess we'll see.

[Deleted]

He should try hunters on ptr their burst is a lot higher and consistent damage aswell. Locks are still easy on ptr as they are on live.

[Thirtyrock]

Lock's damage on the ptr seems too high, but I guess we'll see.

If their damage on the ptr seems too high it may mean they're in a decent spot once it hits live. The problem with locks is that they have to play very defensively, since, after their initial cds, they are squish. I expect that the people on the ptr aren't doing it right...i.e. playing against the warlocks correctly.

affliction damage is always high in arenas, it's just never enough to score a kill without major burst and cross cc from your partner, which is why it works in so few comps atm.

[Nicola]

The overall amount of damage done on the scoreboard is high, the damage itself is not. It's the constant ticking for dots on every target + pet that makes us look like we do a ton of damage, but none of that damage is doing any real harm.

A mage with only 10 million damage done is far more deadlier than an affliction warlock that did 15 mil. Every time the mage starts trowing with damage, there's a chance someone will die. The damage from the warlock is just there to tickle you.