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  1. #141
    Legendary! Tizzlefix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarFalcon1 View Post
    It might be more individually player friendly. But it is certainly not more community friendly. They have removed things that made you interact with each other and it has turned into a "Me! Me! Me! Whats in it for me?" game instead of just enjoying the journey and the people.
    Not what's in it for the guild etc. We all know, "where's my free mount BLIZZARD?!?!??!?!" >: (

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Aang View Post
    Here's a question, have our lives become much busier over the years in general for every age group?
    I know mine has. The time in my life where I had the most free time to play was in Wrath, because I was fresh out of high school and no longer living with my parents. Even though I had played both Classic and BC, the time I spent in Wrath were my "golden years" of Warcraft, because I had the most leisure time to develop and foster the in-game relationships that keep me playing to this day.

    I think we severely underestimate how much the social and cultural "climate" has changed for the people who are now the ages we were when we started playing.

  3. #143
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aang View Post
    Titan has potential considering it will be new and it's made by Blizzard. I put all my money on it if any MMO can.
    Just like Diablo III?
    Since 9/11 the NSA has spent at least $70,000,000,000 while lying about their own effectiveness. Even if we sweep aside the extensive lawbreaking, ethical problems, economic damage, and abuse of power, the fact remains that the NSA makes us all less secure, running useless mass surveillance, with a handful of successes in other questionably legal programs.

  4. #144
    Legendary! Tizzlefix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    I know mine has. The time in my life where I had the most free time to play was in Wrath, because I was fresh out of high school and no longer living with my parents. Even though I had played both Classic and BC, the time I spent in Wrath were my "golden years" of Warcraft, because I had the most leisure time to develop and foster the in-game relationships that keep me playing to this day.

    I think we severely underestimate how much the social and cultural "climate" has changed for the people who are now the ages we were when we started playing.
    Insane to think about how much everything has changed. Progress is progress...

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 05:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    Just like Diablo III?
    We don't mention that game here. Some people say that even the Stig hated it.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Aang View Post
    Not what's in it for the guild etc. We all know, "where's my free mount BLIZZARD?!?!??!?!" >: (
    Exactly, I think the reason most people are in a guild now is for the perks, not the community or need to find players to run stuff.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    My argument for legacy servers have nothing to do with me not wanting to play on them. But really this is the wrong place for that discussion.
    Well what is it then?

  7. #147
    Wow is better than what it once was, not sure why you ask.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by ribald View Post
    Well what is it then?
    Just look up the "Wall of No" that is posted a lot on battle.net forums. It has some of my points in there.

  9. #149
    Legendary! Tizzlefix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarFalcon1 View Post
    Exactly, I think the reason most people are in a guild now is for the perks, not the community or need to find players to run stuff.
    Remind me? What was the definition of a guild in Vanilla and the definition in MoP?

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Birkhoff View Post
    Is the golden age of WoW truly gone? Days that are never coming back?

    What do you guys think?
    Yes, the decline will continue. Subscriptions will never go above 10 million again. Why? The game is outdated. Obviously the graphics are, but even the concept is outdated. Sure they patch things up with each expansion, but the core is outdated and can't be easily fixed.

    They would have to create a WoW 2 in order to get high subscriptions again. But that won't happen, Blizzard has probably put their money on Titan to take over the subscriptions of WoW eventually.

  11. #151
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    MoP is amazing for content.

    But the community is what made WoW so special, and times have changed.
    Heaps of those people have moved on, and the game has developed into a more social-less standing, and there is no way to change that now.

    So unfortunally I doubt it.
    Unless the next generation of gamers prove me wrong, but unfortunally all the CoD games they play aren't making them any happier or social.
    We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.

    Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Anyone who played hardcore during TBC can concur with me that their experience with the game can not be matched... MoP might be nice, but it's only a fragment of how fun TBC was. I remember tuesdays very well. I had my core 10 man group and we would start with kara to gear alts up as we progressed. After kara, we'd go straight to ZA and attempt the bear run... even if we didn't do it, we'd still finish and gear up a few more alts. 4 hours later, our 25 man raid would start and we'd do the same thing with gruuls and mag... we'd blow through them and move onto TK or SSC, which either one the raid voted for. Sometimes we'd finish one of them in a raid night... but within that week, we'd end up raiding multiple raids. It's not like it was easy mode either, the old fights still required you to know the mechanics and do your thing... unlike now, they nerf old content to hell. I won't even start on PvP... it's nothing now.
    Were you with JUICE or DIAF? At least I think it was DIAF that finally gave JUICE a good run on the Horde side, that was a long time ago. I always thought it was cool that Gedrah got his own NPC in SMV too. Stormscale was an awesome server back in the day. Such an even population, low pop, it was pretty close knit, everybody knew everybody, and world PvP was healthy (by that I mean, it happened often enough to be entertaining, but not frustrating). And who on that server could forget the never ending drama between RoD (who I was a core member of) and ANBU/TTF/IHM/etc.


    I'll say MoP is better than Wrath and Cata so far, though I only started on it, much of what I'm seeing and reading up on seems improved. I'm only leveling up at the moment, but so far, the quest pacing is great, and the quests are varied and gimmicky enough to keep things interesting. I'm hugely disappointed that there is only six dungeons in MoP though. Though I guess LFD pretty much erased what made running dungeons awesome in the first place anyway. Pascal's post on page 2 pretty much sums up how I feel though, so there is no need to add another wall of text:

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21188301

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Aang View Post
    Remind me? What was the definition of a guild in Vanilla and the definition in MoP?
    Well, the guild perks do kinda force you to join a lvl 25 guild for the rewards instead of sticking with some close friends. In that sense, I think guild perks has eliminated some freedom and socializing in WoW.

    Okay, you're not forced to join a high level guild, but you're gimping yourself if you don't. I think it's messy, because these rewards were meant to strengthen bonds and encourage socializing by letting guilds work together more. Instead it has had the opposite impact by keeping people away from eachother in fear of losing guild perks.

  14. #154
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    Yes, and I never denied that, but implying that the game is more popular when fewer people were actually playing it is a bit of a false statement.
    Remember that argument in next Call
    His opinion will only become more valid with time, yours less (if numbers lend validity).

    On topic, the question is "loaded", the obvious answer is "no" but that means something good for a segment of the playerbase and something bad for another.
    Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

    For me it's not just the players that are confused it's the game management that's confused above all.

    There's 2 opposite and competing definitions of casual in MoP in the game systems themselves.

    A. Casual as in "having a small amount of time to spend in the game, in random chunks, not on a schedule, a pickup/put down kind of player".
    This demographic may be skilled or not but the main thing is time/dedication.
    B. Casual as "unskilled, inexperienced, or uncaring to improve, just want trivial non-stressful fun" time is not an issue.
    MoP is trying to lump together this diverse demographic and ends up pissing off both sides of the spectrum.

    All the trivial content is extremely time-consuming if you want to do it all (just add up the hours in the week a person in their target group would need to: run LFR,LFD,scenarios, pets, farm, secondary professions, collecting, achievement hunting etc) and at the same time the time invested / reward ratio is atrocious.

    So on one hand you have casuals (players that may be skilled but have little time to play, being relegated to content that is (a) trivial and repetitive = boring, (b) too time consuming / overwhelming to get anything done time-wise).
    On the other hand you have 'casuals' that have tons of time on their hands and prefer trivial play (solitaire in WoW more or less) feeling unrewarded (because cosmetic and frivolous rewards have their own games that do it better that activity being the main focus, and "meaningfull" rewards ie gear locked behind walls of rng grinds and still inferior to rewards from organized play.

    The game is schizophrenic and will keep pitting player segments against each other and alienating them left and right.
    It doesn't help that Blizzard is consciously funneling diverse player segments into the same groups, choosing to mesh trivial /solo gameplay with organized / challenging gameplay instead of offering them as parallel character progression paths.
    This is most evident in their choice to put LFR as a step in the progression ladder for middle-ground, social / casual raiding guilds instead of a truly optional / parallel step.
    Why 22 ilvls between T15LFR > T15N instead of the 'traditional' 13?
    Why T15LFR dropping "half an old-tier worth" of loot above the previous highest normal raid?

    Why not T14N: 496, T15LFR: 497 (or 496 or 495), T15N: 510 (497+13) and tuned for those ilvls so normal raiders can go from completing T14N -> T15N (with LFR truly optional on the side) instead of having the gear progression be T14N -> T15LFR -> T15N.

    You can say "it's the playerbase fault" until you're blue in the face it doesn't change the fact that in a virtual world the "laws of physics" are made by the Devs.
    If their community management department (social engineering if you prefer) is so bad they can't predict the consequences of game design choices it's not our fault.
    A game developer should always assume the worse of their playerbase and try to find ways to discourage toxic behavior instead of fostering it.
    Last edited by Drii; 2013-05-20 at 10:28 PM.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Chunkyman View Post
    "This is my opinion and if you disagree then you are a noob that is wrong".
    Tbc had all the problems the current game at least tried to fix. Pve gear abuse was actually gone for a whole season but it was abused pretty much all of BC stormherald, glaives, the bow(but it sucked and the one from illdian was better). Their is a fuck ton of class diversity. Shaman don't have a silence and when class like ferals and rets got kicks they finally got to stop getting carried by better class to get higher. Vanguard cleave and kitty cleave were strong because of rets and ferals. Not because dks carried rets or warriors carried ferals in season 11. Op comps have always existed dude are you seriously this blind. Transmog is amazing, and pet battles are meh. Every class has a viable comp right now to reach glad with some have 2 specs that are viable stop talking please. No it didn't sunwell was gated and most of the bosses were killed in the first few days of them being unlocked. People are still struggling on last tiers content as well they are called casuals.

    First tier had 3 raids with 4-6 bosses each. This tier had 12 bosses and if you compare that to Scc which had 6 and Tempest keep's 4 bosses we come out a head. The reason Tot is one raids is people were asking for a raid more like ulduar. Maybe if you didn't write with a bias you would notice this things but w/e. T4 had 14 boss encounters and Kara only had 12 encounters so we about the same amount because gruuls lair adds an extra 2 bosses.

    Tbc pvp = random chances to resist cc on top of every class having a random chance to stun. Tbc was far from the most balanced period of wow that was cata to me. Even in catacylsm all the crap specs were viable a hunter ran survival to 2.7k which was fucking awful. Novoz got gladiator twice as elemental, enhancement was glad viable and even arcane was glad viable.
    Last edited by worsthitmanNa; 2013-05-20 at 10:11 PM.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  16. #156
    I'm a Vanilla player, and Vanilla wasn't the golden age for me, nor was The Burning Crusade. Wrath is the closest for me, however it isn't that that made the game "Golden". It was the players, the ones who were friends, allies and even enemies (opposing faction). The social element was what made this game so great. Casually whispering your friend that you found something cool, meeting up and doing pvp, raids, and 5 man's. Levelling together and helping out when help was needed.

    Almost all the people I once knew have moved on, and so I did the same. But we will always have our memories.

    So to answer, no it will never be what it once was, not for me.

  17. #157
    No. WoW will never be like it was (mechanically) in the older days.

    And that's a good thing.

    Are you asking if WoW will regain its community's health? That's up to the community.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Aang View Post
    Well I'll defend old AV to the death, first big mistake Blizzard ever made in my mind regarding WoW. First of all, it felt more epic, like an actual war effort, you didn't have to stay the entire game (people are baffled by this for some reason) but instead you could leave after a while and go do something else and join the exact same battle later. I think out of all the things I've done in WoW, old AV has my best memories to date.
    That's fine and I do see the point of view. It's just my point overall is that the game has changed more and more to fit how I have grown and been increasingly unable to no life it. I have no complaints whatsoever with things that got simplified and Looking for tools etc. If I weren't working 10-12 hour shifts for 5 days every week then sure I could be open to things being a grind fest. Realisticly though I only have my weekends and a few hours here and there to be on to get the things done I need to be raid ready every expansion. And as far as I can say the raids have not been simplified ,boss mechanics keep having more and more on each boss and classes have been ever changing. vanilla was quite simple once you got into it. As for ToT i feel its been the best experience since ulduar but the bosses and raids have had good enough evolution over the years to keep me coming back anyway.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Drii View Post
    Remember that argument in next Call
    His opinion will only become more valid with time, yours less.
    Except it's not my opinion that, at this moment, there are more people playing the game than in Classic, so it's false to try to argue that Classic was better based on it's popularity.

    Once subs drop below 7.5 million, it will be correct to say "Warcraft was more popular in Classic than it is now." However, his statement, made at the current time, will never be "more valid," because it was a false statement.

    The argument over opinions and WoW's quality had nothing to do with that statement, nor did my personal opinion. It was simply a correction of fact, so don't get smug.
    Last edited by Daetur; 2013-05-20 at 10:14 PM.

  20. #160
    Legendary! Tizzlefix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    No. WoW will never be like it was (mechanically) in the older days.

    And that's a good thing.

    Are you asking if WoW will regain its community's health? That's up to the community.
    Well MisterMadgod, as much as you may say it's up to the community, the Devs shape a lot of the game works community wise.

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