So what's the deal with Arms PVP in 5.3?

[Chingylol]

Haven't had a chance to play much since Tuesday. Are there ANY viable comps we can run in 3's? How does damage output seem in full Tyranical? I have a feeling we bottom barrel still compared to a Rogue/WW monk/DK, plus Rets got buffed.

So how is it?

Also did they ever change the 2piece PVP set to 10% less damage in battle stance or did it not go live?

[Kals]

Seen a lot of Kittycleaves and KFC's popping back up, and a few TSGs here and there (around 2k+/- MMR).

[Deleted]

I've fought a few decent teams last night.

One of our very first matches was against these dudes:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/arena/do...iortrolololol/

It was a long night of arenas but I'm kind of sure he wasn't playing with the Rogue last night though (positive that's the warrior, nonetheless) yet they completely destroyed us and the Warrior managed to hold off a Ret and a Frost Mage going bonkers on him, too.

[Rorke]

Arms is better because of the nerfs to Shadow (Inc Melee Cleave) and Subtlety and the buffs to hybrid. They basically does good with any melee cleave or KFC. Honestly, Warriors are easily above Rogues currently.

There is no point in playing a Rogue this patch when playing a Warrior is 3 times easier and provides better results. That's what I hate the most about Warriors is that they're way too easy to even be considered a class. They should be a beginners class in my opinion, only viable up to a certain rating like Frost DK's. That way there's an actual incentive to play melee such as Rogues.

[Deleted]

Warriors were never bad when they had a partner that was a more desireable target. When you can force them to sit in defstance 24/7 their contribution to damage/control is still rather limited due to crippled rage generation.

The real deal is that with the nerf to pvp power it's far more unlikely that you can kill them in a swap fast enough and with their added defense (25% defstance again, 3 minutes shieldwall) you got a rather solid melee.

There's no question that rogues have a noticeable higher skillcap and hybrids like Rets or Feral as well - but after a miserable time in 5.2 they're back in a fair place with the rest of the melee camp.

[Deleted]

Warriors are still junk at pvp, as per usual. They're only good at the beginning of expansions.

Infracted

[Chestbrah]

Warriors are still junk at pvp, as per usual. They're only good at the beginning of expansions.

These kinds of responses make me lol.

[Deleted]

These kinds of responses make me lol.

Yeah, well not as funny as seeing warriors screaming "WARS OWN L2P NOOB" between mouthfuls of dirt resulted from losing almost all 1v1 fights. I don't even have a high level warriors myself, but I have seen a million warriors being stomped everywhere where there is no healer around. Can't even remember the last time I lost a fight to a warrior on any of my characters.

Edit. Yeah, I remember, it was with my crappy geared ww monk that I lost to a warrior in AV.

[Hand Banana]

Wars are ok, but dks, ferals, rets, and enhance are all better. Played quite a few warrior teams since 5.3 and they are back to the old, charge in -> almost die in 5 seconds -> Leap to healers pillar -> Hide until leap is back. They have to play even more defensive than rets, all the warrior teams we played the warrior was basically running and trying to survive 90% of the time.

Dks are 10x more of a threat, enhance has a bit of everything now and is in a pretty good place, rets are NOT as squishy as people think they are and their burst is literally insane, ferals are still strong.

[Deleted]

Dks are 10x more of a threat

Yeah but that spec is unholy which is very annoying to play.

[kosechi]

I think they're pretty decent in arenas now, RBGs not so much.

no melee is really good for rbgs. thats a problem with melee and caster favoring rbg mechanics, not with warriors.


overall warriors are still pretty strong, they are not god mode like they were in 5.0 and they are actual viable kill targets now. kittycleave, kfc and tsg are all still pretty strong, i think mage/warr/healer might be decent.

[Hand Banana]

overall warriors are still pretty strong, they are not god mode like they were in 5.0 and they are actual viable kill targets now. kittycleave, kfc and tsg are all still pretty strong, i think mage/warr/healer might be decent.

I agree and I think warriors are one of the more balanced classes right now. The problem is any comp they are in there is a better alternative. Kittycleave: Drop the war for a hunter or dk and its better. KFC: Drop the war for a dk, feral, enh, or ret and its better. TSG: Drop the war for a ret, enh, hunter or feral and its better.

[kosechi]

I agree and I think warriors are one of the more balanced classes right now. The problem is any comp they are in there is a better alternative. Kittycleave: Drop the war for a hunter or dk and its better. KFC: Drop the war for a dk, feral, enh, or ret and its better. TSG: Drop the war for a ret, enh, hunter or feral and its better.

there is no comp where you would drop the warrior for a ret or enhance, neither is strong enough. both of their high damage is offset by their atrocious survivability. warrior and dk survivability is in a good spot. ferals survivability is too high. ret/enhance's is to low.

[Deleted]

there is no comp where you would drop the warrior for a ret or enhance, neither is strong enough. both of their high damage is offset by their atrocious survivability. warrior and dk survivability is in a good spot. ferals survivability is too high. ret/enhance's is to low.

Survivability is not the issue. A ret is superior to a warrior because he has various ways of...NOT SITTING IN CC like a warrior. Warriors can only avoid fear cc without a pvp trinket. No way to counter roots, disorients, sheeps or traps while their damage isn't impressive outside of cds where, ironically, a ret pala specced into holy avenger will trump the warrior in burst damage.

I honestly don't understand why warriors are so prone to cc. In the past it was because warriors hit really hard so they had to be be able to cc-ed easier but today a ret has more burst AND tons of ways to avoid cc and more mobility. Only downside of a ret is the lower sustained damage outside of cds and more vulnerability to fear.

[kosechi]

Survivability is not the issue. A ret is superior to a warrior because he has various ways of...NOT SITTING IN CC like a warrior. Warriors can only avoid fear cc without a pvp trinket. No way to counter roots, disorients, sheeps or traps while their damage isn't impressive outside of cds where, ironically, a ret pala specced into holy avenger will trump the warrior in burst damage.

I honestly don't understand why warriors are so prone to cc. In the past it was because warriors hit really hard so they had to be be able to cc-ed easier but today a ret has more burst AND tons of ways to avoid cc and more mobility. Only downside of a ret is the lower sustained damage outside of cds and more vulnerability to fear.

survivability is why people don't take rets. they will be trained out of the gate until something (probably them) dies. they lack escapes, and defensive cooldowns.

what are these ways to avoid cc? the primary way skilled rets avoid cc is with hand of sac, but given that that is often used to a. mitigate damage on a team mate. b. dispel a teammate. c.often does not do enough damage to break cc d. can be dispelled.

its not a very reliable way to get of ccs, and it has so much other utility piled into it that its hard to use for that purpose. its also a long cooldown compared to tremor/zerker rage.

keep in mind. rets are strong against soft ccs only. they sit in far more hard ccs because they can't break fears and they can't reflect sheeps or quickly get to LoS they way warriors can

[Hand Banana]

survivability is why people don't take rets. they will be trained out of the gate until something (probably them) dies. they lack escapes, and defensive cooldowns.

what are these ways to avoid cc? the primary way skilled rets avoid cc is with hand of sac, but given that that is often used to a. mitigate damage on a team mate. b. dispel a teammate. c.often does not do enough damage to break cc d. can be dispelled.

its not a very reliable way to get of ccs, and it has so much other utility piled into it that its hard to use for that purpose. its also a long cooldown compared to tremor/zerker rage.

keep in mind. rets are strong against soft ccs only. they sit in far more hard ccs because they can't break fears and they can't reflect sheeps or quickly get to LoS they way warriors can

So they are being trained out the gate all game, yet are sitting in hard cc all game? Seriously I think you have a thing against rets; they arent as bad nor as squishy as you say in my opinion, at least in the middleish brackets. Ive played roughly 60 games at ~2100 mmr since 5.3 came out and at least 10-15 ret teams, and I think only one game was the ret the first kill. Their mobility and magic DR cds prevent my wizard team from nuking the ret effectively on top of their ability to be damn near unkitable. Plus their cc synergy with hunters is rediculous. My dk/boom/heal team was never able to kill rets due to kiting ability against my dk and again multiple magic DR cds and great selfhealing. One of the rets we played (and trained) outhealed his disc priest even though he was the main kill target. He also bursted through my shell in 2 gcds.

Maybe rets are squishier against melee cleaves, but dont know since I dont play one even though I imagine bubble and multiple bops with their mobility can shut down alot of melee dmg. Anyway, in alot of comps wars have, a ret would be a better choice imo. War/lock/heals and kittycleave are the only teams I can think of where the war is better than a ret alternative.

[joppas]

Arms is better because of the nerfs to Shadow (Inc Melee Cleave) and Subtlety and the buffs to hybrid. They basically does good with any melee cleave or KFC. Honestly, Warriors are easily above Rogues currently.

There is no point in playing a Rogue this patch when playing a Warrior is 3 times easier and provides better results. That's what I hate the most about Warriors is that they're way too easy to even be considered a class. They should be a beginners class in my opinion, only viable up to a certain rating like Frost DK's. That way there's an actual incentive to play melee such as Rogues.

Huh, so killing people in stuns is considered skill in your eyes.

[Deleted]

Huh, so killing people in stuns is considered skill in your eyes.

A ret pala can cc and stun just as much as a rogue and his burst is much higher.

[Deleted]

A ret pala can cc and stun just as much as a rogue and his burst is much higher.

Fist of Justice, 6 second stun with 30 second cooldown (if you use the talent, 45 sec otherwise) VS Kidney Shot, 6 sec stun, (combo finisher) and Cheap Shot, 4 sec stun, (requires stealth/SD, combo builder).

How does a Ret stun as much as a Rogue?

CC? Okay.

Ret CC: Blinding Light (AoE Blind for 6 seconds, 2 min cooldown), Repentance (8 sec incapacitate, 1.5 cast time, 15 sec cooldown) <- Talent that no decent Ret takes because it has a cast time and is on the same tier as Fist of Justice.

VERSUS

Rogue CC: Sap (8 sec incapacitate, no cooldown, requires Stealth), Gouge (4 sec incapacitate, 10 sec cooldown), Blind (8 sec disorient, 2 min cooldown), Garrote (3 sec silence, no cooldown, requires Stealth), Dismantle (8 sec disarm, 1 min cooldown).

(Redirect can also be used to stun a secondary target)

Yea, exactly the same amount of stuns and CC. lol

[Hand Banana]

Fist of Justice, 6 second stun with 30 second cooldown (if you use the talent, 45 sec otherwise) VS Kidney Shot, 6 sec stun, (combo finisher) and Cheap Shot, 4 sec stun, (requires stealth/SD, combo builder).

How does a Ret stun as much as a Rogue?

CC? Okay.

Ret CC: Blinding Light (AoE Blind for 6 seconds, 2 min cooldown), Repentance (8 sec incapacitate, 1.5 cast time, 15 sec cooldown) <- Talent that no decent Ret takes because it has a cast time and is on the same tier as Fist of Justice.

VERSUS

Rogue CC: Sap (8 sec incapacitate, no cooldown, requires Stealth), Gouge (4 sec incapacitate, 10 sec cooldown), Blind (8 sec disorient, 2 min cooldown), Garrote (3 sec silence, no cooldown, requires Stealth), Dismantle (8 sec disarm, 1 min cooldown).

(Redirect can also be used to stun a secondary target)

Yea, exactly the same amount of stuns and CC. lol

A ret also doesnt sacrifice damage and cds (or only on opens) for their cc. Rogue's cc more while rets heal alot, its tough to compare the two classes. And FoJ's cd lines up perfectly with a hunters cc. Thats my big issue with rets and dks right now. Scatter, trap, silencing shot, and FoJ/Asphyxiate are all 30 second cds that dont DR with each other, all ranged and all instant. Playing against ret/hunter/healer I sit in cc more often than not, all of which is ranged and instant.