Beast Mastery in PvE: AoE, Beast Cleave and Kill Command?

[Saoron]

I'm very curious about using multi shot as a focus dump as well.. When does it get ahead of arcane shots (2 targets ? 3 ? only with cd's up ?) and then ofcourse eventually when it gets ahead of KC.. Anyone done the math yet ?

[Windthorn]

Finding BM aoe quite strong, enough not to want or need to change to Survival when reforged high haste. I think the new Blink Strikes snergises extremely well with beast cleave.

[Perrito]

The problem with using Fervor as BM is focus capping. Every time I tried using it with BM, I just couldn't stand the flood of focus that was leading to constantly being in danger of capping (even outside BW) and constantly needing to reapply Serpent Sting. Hell, even using DB I'm finding myself focus capping during BW often enough to be annoying (esp. with other cooldowns, like Rapid Fire or Stampede).

you will def see a focus lost on 1st BW no doubt, you still try to keep ur pet and stampede to 100 before you readiness because at this point your focus for arcane shot spam dosnt matter really.

you will lose that but after that there is no reason to focus cap on BW with fervor unless you are using it when you shouldnt.

the only issue i have atm is opening, still i just delay as much as i can so my pet and stampede pets use a lot of focus then bump it with the KC readiness KC.

everytime fervor is up is a mini BW for me, is a spamfest of arcaneshots KC AS AS, bad thing is 2pc is getting the shaft but since is PPM most of the time it procs with the 1st cobra shot i put up.

[Deleted]

What do you do with Focus Fire in heavy AoE situation?

[Yuyn]

you will lose that but after that there is no reason to focus cap on BW with fervor unless you are using it when you shouldnt.

Aside from that whole issue I noted where I've been capping (or close to it) without Fervor more often than I'd really like. Lately, more often than I'd like, I've been finding myself regenerating more focus than I could dump during BW -- probably due to higher haste (~7000 rating, even with crit stacking) combined with DB, Invigoration, and everything else.

I just can't stand how Fervor interacts with SS reapplication, focus capping, and BM's tendency to spike up to near-full focus after a couple lucky procs. It makes it feel like a panicked mess to me, so I'd much, much rather take DB under almost any circumstance. Fervor's great for SV, though.

[Deleted]

According to femaledwarf Wild Hunt uptime is around 77% while with DB is around 40%. According to in game data, with Fevor, my pet is outDPSing me.
I'm using Fevor as soon as the pet is under 50% focus, not me. On my part, I just have to be little more agressive with dumping focus, and in all situation expect when I'm under the effect of TBW, I don't even come closely to capping.

[Saoron]

Is it better to just not use focus fire now ? Or only use it if frenzy stacks are about to fall off ?

[Drakoes]

Kenny told me that you should still be using Focus Fire whilst 'beastcleaving', as you're helping your pet use another basic attack - if that's what you meant?

However, I suspect you still don't want to be using Focus Fire whilst under the effects of BW in a single-target situation.

[Kennyloggins]

Yeah, using Focus Fire on cooldown gives your pet more average DPS than not using it, so it in fact gives you more Beast Cleave damage on average (basing this off Simcraft). It makes sense, I mean, think about what you gain:

30% Ranged haste
*Increased passive focus regen
*Go for the Throat Procs
*Increased pet passive focus regen
*More focus regen from Cobra Shot

+30 focus to your pet, so basically another Basic Attack

You lose the 20% attack speed on your pet, but only temporarily. It's easy to forget that the attack speed buff still stacks after you use Focus Fire, and since your pet will be gaining more focus, it will gain stacks even faster.


There are some cases where it would probably be a waste of a global, but I think if you're AOEing consistently you should always use Focus Fire, especially when it's 2-3 targets and you still want to be using Kill Command. Also, higher Focus Fire uptime means more RPPM procs.

[Deleted]

I'm very curious about using multi shot as a focus dump as well.. When does it get ahead of arcane shots (2 targets ? 3 ? only with cd's up ?) and then ofcourse eventually when it gets ahead of KC.. Anyone done the math yet ?

I think if you're AOEing consistently you should always use Focus Fire, especially when it's 2-3 targets and you still want to be using Kill Command. Also, higher Focus Fire uptime means more RPPM procs.

Since I'm also quite interested in Saoron's question, and after reading Kenny's opinion in his last post, would it be correct to maintain a single target rotation (AS + KC) while keeping up Beast Cleave on our pet against 2 and up to 4 targets, but replace KC + AS for MS spam against 5+ targets?

[Dyveriate]

Since I'm also quite interested in Saoron's question, and after reading Kenny's opinion in his last post, would it be correct to maintain a single target rotation (AS + KC) while keeping up Beast Cleave on our pet against 2 and up to 4 targets, but replace KC + AS for MS spam against 5+ targets?

Arcane Shot does about 2.5x (+/- 0.5x) the damage of one multi-shot. KC does about 5-6x the damage of one multi-shot (~6x+ during Bestial Wrath). On two targets, Kill Command, Glaive Toss/Barrage and Dire Beast will out damage one 4 second period of beast cleave.

[Conando]

Replacing Arcane with Multi also gets kind of complicated because you're missing out on Cobra Strikes procs. I guess you could manually theorycraft that but I'm too lazy. Once Simcraft properly models things though it should be easy.

[Perrito]

Aside from that whole issue I noted where I've been capping (or close to it) without Fervor more often than I'd really like. Lately, more often than I'd like, I've been finding myself regenerating more focus than I could dump during BW -- probably due to higher haste (~7000 rating, even with crit stacking) combined with DB, Invigoration, and everything else.

I just can't stand how Fervor interacts with SS reapplication, focus capping, and BM's tendency to spike up to near-full focus after a couple lucky procs. It makes it feel like a panicked mess to me, so I'd much, much rather take DB under almost any circumstance. Fervor's great for SV, though.

idk sounds like you should be dumping more focus instead of casting more cobra shots. i have no issues other than opening.

Kenny there is any chance you can show us your opening as bm? i was searching some logs and notice that some hunters cast at least 2 cobras before the 1st BW in the opening, im guessing is to proc 2pc but seems like a waste.

this is what i was doing

Prepot
KC
Srs
GT-Barrage
Stampede macro (rapid fire stampede)
Cobra shot (most of the time the 2pc proc out of just 1)
BW+AS macro
KC
AS........
KC+Fervor
Readiness
KC
AS
AS
Srs
BW+AS
KC
.......

[Dyveriate]

Replacing Arcane with Multi also gets kind of complicated because you're missing out on Cobra Strikes procs. I guess you could manually theorycraft that but I'm too lazy. Once Simcraft properly models things though it should be easy.

You only have to decide between arcane and multi shot with 3 targets, and it also depends on how the beast cleave duration lines up with other priorities as well as how much focus you have and are going to have. I would say the focus requirement is more of an issue deciding between Arcane and Multi than the Cobra Strikes, as it only has a 15% chance to proc. This situation is pretty rare though, and Arcane vs Multi will most likely come down to target priority.

idk sounds like you should be dumping more focus instead of casting more cobra shots. i have no issues other than opening.

Kenny there is any chance you can show us your opening as bm? i was searching some logs and notice that some hunters cast at least 2 cobras before the 1st BW in the opening, im guessing is to proc 2pc but seems like a waste.

Kenny opens with Stampede, but I've gotten pets killed as a result (same thing with KC). If it already has aggro, or if everyone is guaranteed to hit it at the same time, I'll open with Stampede, otherwise I usually SrS on openers. If you're wondering if it's a waste to cobra shot before lust and RF, I would say it is.

Here's how we generally open:

Stampede + RF
CDs + KC
SrS
Cobra
DB/GT/Barrage/Arcane Shot until KC comes back up
KC (+ Fervor)
Readiness,
KC
GT/Barrage/DB
BW when KC has 3 seconds left on it, and RF again when it's going to fall.

[eschatological]

I've been pushing my Fervor to after the 2nd KC too. Glad to see I'm not the only one, I was a bit unsure of my instincts. I generally might cap with that Fervor, but my pet benefits from it fully for Wild Hunt, and I'm about to Readiness anyways, so might as well use it.

[Rullis]

I've been pushing my Fervor to after the 2nd KC too. Glad to see I'm not the only one, I was a bit unsure of my instincts. I generally might cap with that Fervor, but my pet benefits from it fully for Wild Hunt, and I'm about to Readiness anyways, so might as well use it.

The only problem I've had so far with Fervor aswell.

[Dyveriate]

Yeah, the fervor before readiness is for the pet, as you'll have infinite focus during both Bestial Wraths with lust/RF.

[Perrito]

You only have to decide between arcane and multi shot with 3 targets, and it also depends on how the beast cleave duration lines up with other priorities as well as how much focus you have and are going to have. I would say the focus requirement is more of an issue deciding between Arcane and Multi than the Cobra Strikes, as it only has a 15% chance to proc. This situation is pretty rare though, and Arcane vs Multi will most likely come down to target priority.



Kenny opens with Stampede, but I've gotten pets killed as a result (same thing with KC). If it already has aggro, or if everyone is guaranteed to hit it at the same time, I'll open with Stampede, otherwise I usually SrS on openers. If you're wondering if it's a waste to cobra shot before lust and RF, I would say it is.

Here's how we generally open:

Stampede + RF
CDs + KC
SrS
Cobra
DB/GT/Barrage/Arcane Shot until KC comes back up
KC (+ Fervor)
Readiness,
KC
GT/Barrage/DB
BW when KC has 3 seconds left on it, and RF again when it's going to fall.

idk seems like a waste of BW time there. i usually get my trinkets all proc after the 1st cobra shot dont see why would you pop everything on the go without having any trinkets up to then cast a cobra shot during bw. i was getting around 300-400k dps if i didnt wait, using srs stampede on the go, now that i cast that cobra shot and wait for trinkets to go i get sometimes to 600k.

i open with KC but tanks know this so they are prepared.

[Kevybevy]

How are people handling Focus fire/Rapidfire/Berserking on fights with bloodlust at the start? So far I've been going with RF > Berserk > FF, simply because I'd rather not delay cds but I'm not too sure.

[eschatological]

I pop RF at the start because hey why not, it's gonna get reset. Then I stagger them, including bloodlust. So if bloodlust is popped at the top, I have 15s of bloodlust+RF, another 25 of bloodlust, then 15s of RF. If I was a troll, then I'd pop that before the third BW (2nd after Readiness), by the third BW you should definitely have Frenzyx5 for afterwards.