[Feral] Massive issues with DPS

[Deleted]

So, i have been trying to get my DPS up for awhile now, and i cannot figure out why i just cannot get it higher, i have tried multiple talent specs and reforged/gemed my gear many times and just cannot get past 80k.

eu .battle .net/wow/en/character/grim-batol/Meguku/simple is my armory. (Wont let me post a link due to new account)

I can only pull about 74k with SoF and DoC, using a HT every time i get an instant cast and using swiftness on CD to get the buff and using it to refresh my Rake if needed.
I pull about 78k with SoF and Vigil, as well as using Incarnation and Vigil, however i have managed to get to 100k constant with it, but only once and not been able to do it since (I cannot get enough crits at the start to pull it again..)
These have all been on a boss target dummy.

I seriously cannot work out why it is so low, unfortunately i do not have any logs either, can anyone give me a hand?

[schwank05]

I do know that for many classes Melee especially that they scale incredibly well with buffs, so I never rely on Target dummy Damage. If you are in a raid Setting I would expect an increase of about 15-20K DPS.

[Deleted]

unfortunately it is not much higher in raids, infact it's about the same.

[The Cat]

Quite simply it's a gear issue. You have too many PvP pieces to expect optimal DPS. Even if your ilvl is decent, there's just too much of the item level budget wasted on PvP Power. I guess it's fair to assume feral isn't your main spec since you have no 522 valor items, but you shouldn't be expecting much more dps than that as you are gearing up.

Feral gets exponentially better, more or less. More haste = more OOC/RPPM procs, more crit = more combo points... it all adds up to a more fluid rotation. Not to mention damage from mastery. And all your extra haste/crit/mastery is wasted on PvP Power.

[Deleted]

Feral is my main spec, but i have only been 90 for one reset which is why my gear is lacking, I'm using the pvp parts simply because they're better then anything else i could get.

Compared to other 496's, they pvp parts are practically on par with secondary stats, excluding the pvp power, Infact for example, the staff gives 36 more mastery then Gao-Rei 496, and 3 more crit compared to expertise, they aren't bad at all compared to 496's.

[Deleted]

Quite simply it's a gear issue. You have too many PvP pieces to expect optimal DPS. Even if your ilvl is decent, there's just too much of the item level budget wasted on PvP Power.

No, just no. PvP Power does not cost any item budget. Every PvP item has exactly the same amount of PvE stats as a PvE item of the same item level.

[The Cat]

And that's fine, that's what most people do, but your dps won't get much better until you are are more pve geared.

[Deleted]

Im guessing you mean current tier geared, I've not had much chance to get any... Ive gotten 2 522's in my 1st week of 90 on this character which is pretty good...

[aggixx]

Quite simply it's a gear issue.

No, no it's obviously not just a gear issue. Just from reading what he wrote in the OP you should be able to tell he's not playing optimal and therefore it's obviously not a gear issue.

To start off, you're not playing DoC correctly. You should only be casting Healing Touch at 4+ CP or when your PS buff would otherwise be about to expire, and NS should only be used at 4+ CP as well. If you're just going to proc the buffs instantly everytime you might as well just play HotW, you'll probably do more DPS with that.

If you didn't know that I wouldn't be surprised to hear there's a few other fundamental things you're doing wrong. Make sure you read through the Feral guide on these forums and it's also not a bad idea to browse through the forums at Fluid Druid, there's lots of very informative posts on a variety of topics there.

Aside from that you've given us very little to go off, don't expect much more specific advice than what you've already been given if you don't provide logs.

PS: Armory's down so I can't say anything on gearing, etc.

[Deleted]

No, no it's obviously not just a gear issue. Just from reading what he wrote in the OP you should be able to tell he's not playing optimal and therefore it's obviously not a gear issue.

To start off, you're not playing DoC correctly. You should only be casting Healing Touch at 4+ CP or when your PS buff would otherwise be about to expire, and NS should only be used at 4+ CP as well. If you're just going to proc the buffs instantly everytime you might as well just play HotW, you'll probably do more DPS with that.

If you didn't know that I wouldn't be surprised to hear there's a few other fundamental things you're doing wrong. Make sure you read through the Feral guide on these forums and it's also not a bad idea to browse through the forums at ], there's lots of very informative posts on a variety of topics there.

Aside from that you've given us very little to go off, don't expect much more specific advice than what you've already been given if you don't provide logs.

PS: Armory's down so I can't say anything on gearing, etc.

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of info i was after, a guild friend never explained to use HT at 4 combos, said to use after a 5 point move only. I couldent find anything about it either on icy viens or anything either, if it's there then it's not very clear when to optimally use it. I shall try this out.

[aggixx]

That's a shame they don't even mention how to use it, it's kind of important to even justify using Dream of Cenarius >.<

But yeah, basically since your finishers all do more damage than a shred you want to try to consume the PS proc at 4 or 5 points, that way one charge can be used on a finisher. Savage Roar obviously won't consume a charge but you'd want to consume the buff before using SR anyway since you wouldn't want to overwrite the old PS (therefore wasting a proc).

The second charge should be used on a Rake if doing so would cause you to have a stronger rake on the target, or possibly if you rake is running a bit low and you're afraid you may have to use an unbuffed Rake. Otherwise it should be used on a Shred or a Thrash.

And if you don't manage to make it to 4 CP before your PS is about to run out you should just cast HT anyway (which will happen, especially if your gear isn't the best). In that case you should still use 1 charge on Rake if needed and use the second on a Shred or Thrash.

Also, I should've said, NS should be used almost exclusively on buffing Rip. It's really important to use it for that on your opener, and then try to use it again each time you have to reapply Rip and you don't have a DoC buff up. In AoE situations it's a good idea to use it to buff a Thrash if you don't have a DoC buff available when you need to refresh it. And then finally, during execute range (sub 25%) it's okay to use NS on a Ferocious Bite if you don't think you can use it to get a stronger Rip up than the one you already have on the target.

[Themessiah]

A few things I'm not sure that Aggixx mentioned: Max level professions will offer a stat boost, but if you want to be competitive you'll need to lose mining in favour of another profession. In order to understand the rotation and what to use when, "Ovale" with "Nerien's script" is super-excellent. They're both addons that work together to help you use the right ability at the right time. Moreover, you should be using Soul of the Forest near universally at the moment in pve; it makes the rotation so much easier by giving you more energy.

By point of reference, I hit around 130-140k dps on a 3-3.5 minute dummy fight and I'm at item level 529, with HotW, SotF, the legendary gem, no rune of re-origination, and the 4 set bonus from T15. So I doubt you'll be hitting much above 100-110k on a dummy in your current gear, even with everything optimised.

Edit: 529, not 429. Thanks to Dancm. Also, Needtoknow is an easy to configure addon which allows you to track procs to maximise dot damage.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't recommend Incarnation ever at all in PvE as Feral druid, Go with SofT and if you have trouble dpsing with DoC use HotW or NV and train DoC from time to time because when you understand how it works it will go smoothly.

There is also some addons that i want to highlight.

It's not a bad idea as a starter to use Ovale script with Leafkiller's feral druid script which is in Nerien's Ovale script addon.
Both can be found here and here

There is three other addons i strongly recommend.

ExtraCD, You can use this to track everything that will increase your damage: I track Potion, Trinket procs, Weapon Procs, Tailoring back enchant, Synapse Springs, Tricks of the Trade etc.

DroodFocus: Helps you track alot if not all important things you need to track, I don't use this but comparing to WeakAura which i use it's really easy to set up.

WeakAura Basically can help you track everything you want, There is loads of good videos on Youtube.

Here is a example of how i've it setup.



Two big bars to the right is Ovale.
The faded action bars is Bartender.
The gray is SuF and above that is my energy which is WeakAura as everything else exept the upper bar which is ExtraCD.
As you can see procs on CD you get a red counter, Procs that have proced you get a golden glow effect around the icon and a green timer.

I'm sure you'd find this in the sticky but i wanted to highlight things that is very very important.

*Understanding how the spec works (Which was covered)
*Understanding the value of addons!

And for those who is interested here is the whole UI image

[dancm]

... and I'm at item level 429, ...

iLvl 429 ? guess it's a typo.

@OP: I'm pretty sure without raid buffs and your current gear you won't be able to break 100k on the raid dummy consistently. I'd say 90k are already pretty good.

[Deleted]

snip

There should be a rule that if you post cool weakauras you have to post the string for it as well

[Deleted]

Debuffs

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Bleeds snaphot

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Combo Points

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Extra shit

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[Deleted]

That's a shame they don't even mention how to use it, it's kind of important to even justify using Dream of Cenarius >.<

Yeh... I see a lot of new ferals taking DoC because they read on noxxic or icy-veins that it was the best - they just don't use healing touch at all/consistently. Icy-veins explains that they have to use healing touch. That's about it. Noxxic doesn't say shit.

And for those who is interested here is the whole UI image

Me gusta. And I thought my UI looked nice. I guess it's time for an overhaul soon(ish).

EDIT: The number which is displayed above your dots is the percentage of damage difference there is between the current dot and the one that you could apply now?

[Deleted]

My ui is quite different, as i'm rather fond of NTK, i find it easier to see the bars rather than numbers

[Deleted]

The number which is displayed above your dots is the percentage of damage difference there is between the current dot and the one that you could apply now?

Basically yeah, 100 is exactly the same... Above 100 is increase below 100 is decrease.

[datshifty]

That's a shame they don't even mention how to use it, it's kind of important to even justify using Dream of Cenarius >.<

But yeah, basically since your finishers all do more damage than a shred you want to try to consume the PS proc at 4 or 5 points, that way one charge can be used on a finisher. Savage Roar obviously won't consume a charge but you'd want to consume the buff before using SR anyway since you wouldn't want to overwrite the old PS (therefore wasting a proc).

The second charge should be used on a Rake if doing so would cause you to have a stronger rake on the target, or possibly if you rake is running a bit low and you're afraid you may have to use an unbuffed Rake. Otherwise it should be used on a Shred or a Thrash.

And if you don't manage to make it to 4 CP before your PS is about to run out you should just cast HT anyway (which will happen, especially if your gear isn't the best). In that case you should still use 1 charge on Rake if needed and use the second on a Shred or Thrash.

Also, I should've said, NS should be used almost exclusively on buffing Rip. It's really important to use it for that on your opener, and then try to use it again each time you have to reapply Rip and you don't have a DoC buff up. In AoE situations it's a good idea to use it to buff a Thrash if you don't have a DoC buff available when you need to refresh it. And then finally, during execute range (sub 25%) it's okay to use NS on a Ferocious Bite if you don't think you can use it to get a stronger Rip up than the one you already have on the target.

This seems... kind of impossible. I've been just using HT whenever I get the proc too, and wasn't aware I was supposed to save it for 4 combo points. But... I just tried to do this on a test dummy for practice, and there just isn't enough time to build that many combo points after a Savage Roar or FB so that I can get a boosted Rip in. The Swiftness buff only lasts 7 seconds. You can actually generate 4 combo points after you've used a finisher, in under seven seconds, consistently? Maybe this is easier with raid buffs, but on a target dummy, I can't do it consistently at all.

But if so, I'm going to have to change my playstyle quite a bit to figure out how you do it. Do you even use FB in your rotation anymore above 25% boss HP?