Simple idea to killing spree redesign.

[Deleted]

There has been a lot of talk about killing spree causing a lot of trouble for combat so maybe there is a chance to get some change to it for the next expansion.

To remove the flaws of killing spree blizzard could just remove the part of killing spree where you jump to anything. Instead of jumping you slash in front of you for the same damage that killing spree normally does. It could be made like bladestorm where you can also move while using killing spree, and cant be stopped unless killed. Since it kind of already works like that but uncontrolled by the rogue.

What would this fix?

In pve:
-Jumping around to dangerous places that might kill you and not being prevented from using killing spree because it will kill you.
-being able to focus the target you actually want to kill

In pvp:
-would prevent killing spree from being useless around pets.
-would give combat some unique flavour in pvp because of the ability to prevent cc and slows while using killing spree.

I don't think it would be op in pvp. The damage can be tuned for that. It would be avoidable like normal spells by running away from the rogue unlike current killing spree. Yet being unstoppable gives you a chance to try to follow the target while using it.

How does it sound?

[shadowboy]

I actually like the porting to an extent--it DOES serve a useful purpose at time, although it's bad enough that I'd prefer it just be gone, either baseline or via a glyph (bringing available glyph slots down to 1).

[Deleted]

As soon as Blizzard creates a field in their database that controls what's the "back" of each unit in the game - if any -, a lot of the awkwardness of KS will be removed. I'd actually be okay with them limiting the use of KS on some objects, mobs or units if it meant that those units that were eligible wouldn't break the skill and/or wipe the raid (Elegon pillars, Garalon's body, etc.). Unfortunately for us, those places have been engrained on the community and created a lot of bad rep for that ability - I've even heard of rogues who were forbidden to use KS because of it.

The rest is just a matter of understanding the skill mechanics. It's incredible how few get the 10yd rule - especially when that realization can turn KS into a tactical advantage.

TL;DR fix the definition of "back", and KS will be fine

[Rigapples]

Why not just make it so you get a targeting reticle similar to other spells. You click KS, you get your reticle and drop it around the enemies you want to hit, and then it behaves as it does today except you only hit enemies within your targeting reticle.

And then glyph it to land where you started from, or unglyphed and you land in the middle of the circle when you are finished.

EDIT: And if you cast it on no enemies, it basically becomes a mini shadowstep with a longer CD. You just port ot the center of the reticle and nothing happens since there are no enemies to attack.

[Verain]

At this point, I'm honestly pretty happy with spree. The only change I would really suggest would be to give the rogue a powerful defensive advantage during it, but my alternate suggestion (feint with 3 second CD, but off the GCD) for combat would likely be just as good in most situations. I think the glyphed version is pretty safe, and honestly, the move is supposed to be a gambit.

[Shinob1]

KS has treated me much better ever since I switched to the KS minor glyph and accepted that to be the "standard" for me. I played almost exclusively without the glyph for years. At first it was a bit awkward and needed some time adjust after the switch. As long as you understand the mechanics of the spell, the surroundings you are in, know the hitboxes of the mobs around you, have some encounter awareness (raid addon timers), using KS efficiently should be no problem at all. On static target(s) it's working alright. For moving target(s) I just save a Shadowstep to get back to my initial target asap.

There are some encounters where the spell is annoying/broken for instance on megaera where you jump to a non visible/existing head... But that is fixed by standing a bit closer to your initial target.

[shadowboy]

For years? The KS minor glyph has existed for 9 months.

[-Raer-]

I've even heard of rogues who were forbidden to use KS because of it.

My GM/RL has 0 sympathy for a KS death ):

[shadowboy]

KS deaths are generally avoidable. But it DOES suck having to hold off on KS for a long while because it comes off cd at the start of durumu maze.

[Shinob1]

A wild thought... what if it jump only to targets with same name as your current target. If no mobs with same name are in range of your current target, it will stick to your current target for full burst.
pvp fix, pve fix

[Backlashe]

Or realize combat is bad and spec assassination like you should be doing in a raid setting ;-)

More serious note: I think Killing Spree is slightly awkward but not really bad at all since you have blade flurry as well to go with it. This is more for the argument of it being useless in pvp with pets around.

[Verain]

Combat is absurdly frustrating to play this tier. I want to make a rant on the official forums about it or something.

First, we have this dumb GCD that I can't nail perfectly ever during AR/Blades. That's frustrating as SHIT not being able to jam a bunch of buttons. Every other high APM spec doesn't have such a tiny window, isn't so reliant on server lag, and doesn't rely on lazy fucking client updates to play properly (I have HOW many CPs?). I'm sure some of you can nail it perfectly, and grats to you, but this game has NEVER rewarded hammering out a 120 BPM rhythm on my 2 and 3 keys until this patch.

Second, we have the blade flurry nerf, which doesn't give us a niche like I though it did (we are just fail versions of melee ele shams if five mobs somehow bunch up). But to make it WAY worse, we have to find a position where our tiny fucking cone hits all the enemies. This was interesting as a 2-hit, and you could try to skill shot a specific target too, but as a 5-hit it's a geometry problem with normally only a couple solutions (aka, most spots won't cleave all the enemies). You then find one of the correct spots, tunnel the proper mob, and a mechanic happens so you have to step away and now your spot is dead. But you can't just swap targets because there's revealing strike, the super tight global, walk to the correct mob with a circle strafe so you don't lose too much flurry-time... I hate it so much. It needs to be a circle if it's going to be this new dumb fucking thing.

I can't believe how unplayable this spec has become to me. This was my favorite spec for years, and it's just such unplayable shit that it puts me in a bad mood to spec it now. I keep trying and trying and either I need way more practice than I can get or it's just too hard for me or I don't even fucking KNOW.

I hate restless blades too. I hate that when I blew my CDs and the boss ran away, I would think "ok neat, combat rules because I'm charging up my lazers while he's away". Now I'm like HOLY SHIT HARLIN CAN WE DUEL REAL QUICK I NEED SOMETHING TO PUNCH OR MY CDS WON'T EVER BE BACK JUST HEAL YOURSELF HARD GIRL
It's just fucking balls. Just total trashcan unless I can tunnel bullshit 100% of the time and use every global and I can't feint without putting it on the credit card (because you feinted, you'll be charged interest in the form of a pushed back set of cooldowns, plus you lost this global, plus you didn't punch so your other amazing mechanic, the colored scarabs from Zul'Gurub, will be a weaker color).

I like that there's so much going on, but guys, I've got a raid boss here, not a target dummy.



And Killing Spree is the thing you guys are frustrated about? What are you DRINKING? It's gotta be some strong shit!


Arrrgl blarrrglllllll

[Shinob1]

KS deaths are generally avoidable. But it DOES suck having to hold off on KS for a long while because it comes off cd at the start of durumu maze.

I'm usually able to squeeze the KS as the maze is forming (just before the beam starts spinning). You can pop faint/cloak and have healthstone ready. And if you want to do it without worrying too much just spec cheat death. In case you use KS when the beam is spinning.. tricky no doubt, I'd go for same as above + spamming Shadowstep macro to a player in raid when KS ends. You could also ask a healer to keep an eye on your hp if it's not too much trouble.

[Verain]

And here everyone else is being helpful with good play tips.

[javen]

I don't mind killing spree in that it's usually pretty easy to figure out when it's safe/not safe to use it.

I mind it because it's one of the (possibly the ONLY) DPS cooldown that is not always free to be used at times of potential DPS maxing, where players are sometimes forced not to use it at a time that the skill would provide optimal damage, if not for the possibility of death.

[Sesshou]

Combat is absurdly frustrating to play this tier. I want to make a rant on the official forums about it or something.

First, we have this dumb GCD that I can't nail perfectly ever during AR/Blades. That's frustrating as SHIT not being able to jam a bunch of buttons. Every other high APM spec doesn't have such a tiny window, isn't so reliant on server lag, and doesn't rely on lazy fucking client updates to play properly (I have HOW many CPs?). I'm sure some of you can nail it perfectly, and grats to you, but this game has NEVER rewarded hammering out a 120 BPM rhythm on my 2 and 3 keys until this patch.

Second, we have the blade flurry nerf, which doesn't give us a niche like I though it did (we are just fail versions of melee ele shams if five mobs somehow bunch up). But to make it WAY worse, we have to find a position where our tiny fucking cone hits all the enemies. This was interesting as a 2-hit, and you could try to skill shot a specific target too, but as a 5-hit it's a geometry problem with normally only a couple solutions (aka, most spots won't cleave all the enemies). You then find one of the correct spots, tunnel the proper mob, and a mechanic happens so you have to step away and now your spot is dead. But you can't just swap targets because there's revealing strike, the super tight global, walk to the correct mob with a circle strafe so you don't lose too much flurry-time... I hate it so much. It needs to be a circle if it's going to be this new dumb fucking thing.

I agree 100% about the global thing. The class was never designed for us to have a .5 sec global and enough resources to take advantage of it. I'm pretty sure if my combo points would actually update fast enough and I had absolutely 0 input or server lag that I could do a nice chunk of extra dps. Also the fact that I have been 'forced' to use autohotkey (really happy I saw that suggested on EJ) just to be able to mash my keys fast enough is ridiculous.

I also agree that the BF change sucks massively, however I disagree about the rest. Have you actually tried BF recently? I've been combat the whole tier and they changed BF a while ago. There is no cone and the radius is 8 yards. If FoK will hit it, BF will too (including directly behind you).

[shadowboy]

honestly, I think a fix to the GCD thing would be to modify AR slightly.

The design intent of AR is to allow more frequent finishers by increasing combo point generation, and increase builder damage through energy regeneration.

You would get the same effect out of AR without the GCD issue if you simple doubled your combo point generator damage and double the combo points generated, without changing energy regen or cost.

Basically change it from

Adrenaline Rush
Instant 3min Cooldown
Increases your energy regeneration rate by 100% and your melee attack speed by 20% for 15 sec.

to

Adrenaline Rush
Instant 3min Cooldown
Increases the damage of your combo point generating abilities by 100%, doubles combo point generation, and increases melee attack speed by 20% for 15 sec.

The net effect would be the same, only with the same apm as what you'd have outside of AR (combat's pacing outside of AR is perfect, imo). It would also make the T15 4-set more sensible, and allow the adrenaline rush glyph to be changed to something more situational, freeing up a glyph slot. Current: hit SS for 30k and 1 combo point every 1.0sec--for 30k dps and 1 cp/sec @ 60apm. Modified: hit SS for 60k and generate 2 combo points every 2sec for 30k dps and 1cp/sec @ 30apm.


The only problem I see would be RvS. The options here are to have *double* combo point generation which would mean a RvS proc during SB would result in 6 combo points, or that RvS proc should have twice the chance of granting 1 extra combo point. Alternatively, you can take a *slight* hit in combo point generation and leave RVS as is (meaning SS would be 2/3 or 4/5 during SB instead of 2/4 and 4/6, respectively).

[Sesshou]

Thats a good idea, but I can't see them doing that now that they have given us SB which for combat also gives us double the cp generation (aside RvS procs) making the 2 cooldowns fairly similar. AR could really use a rework though... it is a relic from the days where we always had 10 energy a second and no other cds to stack to flood us with resources.

[Mazius]

I'm usually able to squeeze the KS as the maze is forming (just before the beam starts spinning). You can pop faint/cloak and have healthstone ready.

CoS doesn't work against Eye Sore, only talented part of feint works against it (-30% damage taken).
Plus you obviously talking about normal or even LFR Durumu, on heroic there's icy walls and you shouldn't attack boss at this point.

[Deleted]

Well I was trying to come up with a suggestion to make killing spree a spell that 1) can be used on cooldown without danger and 2) can be controlled. I know there are ways to get to use killing spree without killing yourself. But that involves postponing it because of some 100% kill boss mechanics or blowing other cooldowns (mostly cloak of shadows) to get a safe killing spree. What other spell in the game does that? Since this topic has turned into "no need to fix just need to be clever like me" I have a question.

How would you change killing spree so it has these qualities:
1) Will never ever kill you when you use it
2) can be controlled so you don't ever have to use cancelaura for example because you got a bad debuff on you.

I know combat has mechanics that just don't work in pvp like bandits guile and restless blades. Killing spree is one of them but that is probably the easiest one to fix. You could come up with ideas for that.

And btw I for one like the 0,7 second globals during AR. Its the T15 set bonus that pushes it over the limit. I like fast button spamming.