League of Legends Lead Content Designer 'Morello' Scott talks about World of Warcraft

[Aquamonkey]

My only criticism was for the guild that had already progressed, into T5/T6. It was very hard to recruit without having to drag the person through previous tiers and attunements to get them up to par to join current raids. How to get around that? I have no idea.

By removing attunements and reducing rep requirements like they did midway through TBC. I changed mains during BT when I switched servers. My toon had mostly PvP gear, but I was caught up on PvE gear in 1-2 weeks just from doing MH/BT.

[mastagomes]

By removing attunements and reducing rep requirements like they did midway through TBC. I changed mains during BT when I switched servers. My toon had mostly PvP gear, but I was caught up on PvE gear in 1-2 weeks just from doing MH/BT.

I don't think removing attunements was the right answer, BUT I dont' think everyone in the guild needs to be attuned to do said content, I think 25% or 50% of the raid group being attuned should be a sufficient number to allow entrance into the raid.

[Holtzmann]

I don't think removing attunements was the right answer, BUT I dont' think everyone in the guild needs to be attuned to do said content, I think 25% or 50% of the raid group being attuned should be a sufficient number to allow entrance into the raid.

Just one guy in the group needs to be attuned. Considering how players are, specially in "serious" raiding guilds, everybody will be "politely asked" to get attuned before they can join up, anyway.

[Aquamonkey]

Just one guy in the group needs to be attuned. Considering how players are, specially in "serious" raiding guilds, everybody will be "politely asked" to get attuned before they can join up, anyway.

Hate to be that one guy with the key to UBRS. I almost bothered to get it myself.

[tohyatvc]

Except it doesn't. I could EASILY say that people wanted to kill the Lich King and did and that was it for them and then subs dropped. Noone possibly outside of Blizzard knows the true meaning why subs dropped. It could be what you said, it could be what I said, it could be because the game is older, could be because people got older and have no time, it could a number of things. In the end there is no ONE thing, no one HUGE thing that cause subs to drop. Subs dropping at the end of Lich King says nothing cause noone know exactly what that thing is.

I've seldom read anything so far from the truth. Blizzard are NOT the source of knowing why subs dropped. Far, far from it.

You treat sub numbers as if it's a mysterious thing. No. There are people on these forums who de-subbed. THEY KNOW why they unsubbed, they're the ones that did it, they could tell you exactly why. Blizzard doesn't know jack.

But the problem is, most people don't want to listen to those people, because they're seen as negative, and tossed comments such as "why do you come onto a WoW forum, then?" and so on, and so on, but they are the ONLY ONES that can provide this critical information.

[Osmeric]

You treat sub numbers as if it's a mysterious thing. No. There are people on these forums who de-subbed. THEY KNOW why they unsubbed, they're the ones that did it, they could tell you exactly why. Blizzard doesn't know jack.

You foolishly assume the people on these forums are representative of the player population as a whole.

Any individual player will be able to say why he unsubbed (or not). But Blizzard doesn't care about any specific individual; they care about demographics of the player population. And Blizzard will have a much better handle on that than any individual player will.

[Deleted]

I'd give a thumb to get in on those drinks with GC and Morello ^^

[Speedlance]

Wow success came from players having hope of one day reaching that goal of raiding top end. I remember it being the factor which resulted in me continuing with wow. I remember it well, when I saw this guy in Org with full T2 warrior set, even though I played a shaman at the time it was that moment which bound me to wow, probably forever. I enjoyed raiding at lower tiers admiring the top end raiders and having dreams of getting there myself, you can easily see this i League of Legends, because not everyone can get to diamond league and it attracts players that there is hope to get up there but the journey will not be easy.
BC was awesome because not everyone saw Lady vashj, Kael'thas, illidan, archimonde and an even more extreme case was SWP.
wow was most popular when only a smart part of the raiders actually saw the end bosses.

I strongly believe that by making wow harder and less casual friendly in the raiding scene will increase the popularity greatly, making wow grow again.
I stopped raiding seriously after DS, when my guild at the time beat madness on 25 hc, then I knew the content was to easy considering the same guild in BC barely got to twins in SWP with only a few member switches, because if the content was hard enough our guild would never have killed madness hc.

[Grocalis]

I strongly believe that by making wow harder and less casual friendly in the raiding scene will increase the popularity greatly, making wow grow again

They attempted that with Cataclysm. It failed.

[Belisaurio]

They attempted that with Cataclysm. It failed.

The worst expansion that WoW had; and you put all the fault in the firsts months (because nobody talked about Hard Raids, only Hard Dungeons...).
So...they changed wow hard in the wrong way, and they turned easy in the wrong way, again. Tie!!!!

[mvaliz]

They attempted that with Cataclysm. It failed.

Exactly - they tuned the dungeons to be around BC-difficulty (GC's own words) and what happened? MASSIVE block in the face.

if they went back to hardcore gaming there would be an even FASTER exodus from the game.

[LeperHerring]

Exactly - they tuned the dungeons to be around BC-difficulty (GC's own words) and what happened? MASSIVE block in the face.

if they went back to hardcore gaming there would be an even FASTER exodus from the game.

And then they quickly turned the game into easiest it has ever been and the sub number decline just accelerated. So what exactly is your argument here?

[Holtzmann]

And then they quickly turned the game into easiest it has ever been and the sub number decline just accelerated. So what exactly is your argument here?

That the damage had already been done?

[Osmeric]

And then they quickly turned the game into easiest it has ever been and the sub number decline just accelerated. So what exactly is your argument here?

Except normal mode raiding was kept difficult, and obnoxious time consuming grinding was smeared on top of everything. Who was asking for the VP/hour rate to be so reduced, and daily quest grinding to be added?

[finskee]

Here's another interview with a lead designer:

http://www.mmogamer.com/08/06/2007/b...2%80%9D-kaplan

It might interest some of you that THINK YOU KNOW why blizzard changed their design philosophy, it was actually around the time of vanilla, when they began to realize people weren't seeing the raids they made.

INterviewer: Everyone has their own theories as to the source of where this appeal lays, but what do you, as the lead designer think?

Jeffrey Kaplan: I think the source is the focus on fun. I think a lot of people got carried away with the concept of an MMO from a very high level of community management, or community manipulation, or an MMO as a social experiment. But what we did when we were working on WoW was focus on the fact that it was a game, and if one person played it all by themselves the game should be fun, and not to rely on traditional MMO thoughts of the time, which was forcing people to interact with each other, forcing a slow progression, and being overly punishing on the players. We just wanted to make an experience that was fun whether you wanted to play it by yourself, or with other people.

It's like the LOL dev says, if that doesn't appeal to you your playing the wrong game. So you can take your carrots on a stick and shove them up your exclusive parts.

[Grocalis]

And then they quickly turned the game into easiest it has ever been and the sub number decline just accelerated. So what exactly is your argument here?

Due to other factors like time investment.

You are not grasping this. As a casual player, I want to log on for an hour and know I will succeed in something and get a reward for my efforts. Back in WOTLK, it was very easy for me to run heroics, get my badges, and buy T9. Even T10 was purchased with badges and later Valor Points.

Where MoP is making the mistake is not in the difficulty. The difficulty is actually perfect. They are making it in the time investment to get the rewards. You have to do more dailies, and the dailies themselves are more involved. Killing a named guy in Cataclysm took a few moments, while new mechanics like "Beheading Strike" and enhanced health pools make the fights more invested and drawn out. Justice Points have been discarded in favor of the capped Valor points. LFR, while enjoyable, relies so heavily on RNG that after a night of playing I may walk away with nothing but a few extra Valor (not enough to buy anything of worth) and gold. Those are not the nights I want. The rewards need to be paced better.

By dragging out content you are not engaging the casual, and that is the reason for the new decline, which is why Blizzard is attempting to go back on some of those designs yet again.

[Vintersol]

Exactly - they tuned the dungeons to be around BC-difficulty (GC's own words) and what happened? MASSIVE block in the face.

Massive block? There was no block. Every decent player was able to play these instances. It was only a block for the standard dungeon finder troll, that don't know what this shiny picture in the action bar are...

You are not grasping this. As a casual player, I want to log on for an hour and know I will succeed in something and get a reward for my efforts.

Everytime i heard this argument, but without a doubt: A minority is in the game, that play the game only for one hour a day.

[Grocalis]

Massive block? There was no block. Every decent player was able to play these instances. It was only a block for the standard dungeon finder troll, that don't know what this shiny picture in the action bar are...

I have played since vanilla. I met dozens of people that wouldn't do heroics because the tuning was too high. It had nothing to do with being unable to use action bars. Some people don't play for the challenge over the reward and experience. They play flag football with the brows because it's fun, not because they are looking to join the pros.

Everytime i heard this argument, but without a doubt: A minority is in the game, that play the game only for one hour a day.

You believe that, chum. You are dead wrong, but you go on believing it.

[hatsune]

I hardly would have called myself hardcore, no where close, but I found the content just as accessible to be frank. In terms of difficulty, the game back then really was not any harder than it is now, especially when thinking about the current Heroic Modes. You claim that the current user base would not tolerate such an 'exclusive' model now, but the current feedback and subscriber numbers seem to indicate something completely different than what you are suggesting, even though this is a very simplified view of the state of the game and subscriber numbers, it is still relevant to your claims.

Lets review the facts.

1. Subs are falling moderately
2. People complain (but they always complain)
3. Blizzard is targeting accessibility since cata launch when they tried hard heroics

The theory I subscribe to is that current sub decrease is due to the fact the game is old, and there isn't as many new players joining. Blizzard seems to agree and they are increasing the accessibility and levelling experience in an attempt to mitigate sub loss.

Now with regards to your personal experiences, if you feel that BC was just as easy (a measurement of difficulty) then it probable that you are not the group that Blizzard is targeting. One of the biggest challenges in WOW (and this is a form of difficulty) is to find coop content. In BC, if you managed to get into a guild that suited your style, timing and progression you are probably a lucky person. There were many people that did not find such a thing. I personally knew many guilds who were so deprived of content that they never ever managed to clear a single 5man heroic in BC. They spent their times in their daily 10 quests and raising alts. This was serious deprivation and no such player will ever consent to such an experience again.

LFD was literally a divine gift. The chances of finding a group in /2 in combination with people leaving before and during the run was extremely low. Someone leaving halfway for whatever reason meant a saved failed run. Spamming in /2 was a sign of desperation and no one wanted reasonably geared characters. They wanted FULL TIER 6 BADGE GEAR characters to run with. It doesn't matter if you slowly acquired every possible upgrade before 5heroics and were in full dungeon set. They didn't want you. Its not just the time to find a /2 spam party, its the ability to find replacements, the power to avoid elitist snobs and the the party not breaking down into a fail heroic saved run. All of this was worth far more than 20min. Some would even say its worth more than 120min. At the very least.

LFR was another divine gift. Do you know how many players have never ever seen the inside of a raid? Or actually made it past the first 2-3 bosses from one of the regular PUGs? Blizzard does. And they wisely decided that it was too many players. They understand that not everyone has a raiding guild or the time to bang their head against the wall in wipefests. They wisely decided that it is better to allow such players to see content than to leave them with only the new LFD to play with. (Or worse, before WOTLK's LFD there was only dailies/alts for the non PVP players). A player with a raiding guild may never be able to understand the emotion involved in finally seeing deathwing in LFR. I know of players who saw they're first ever raid content there in dragon's soul. Having been put off even 5man heroics by the pre end of time 5mans.

Cross realm coop is another really good thing they did. I made so many xrealm friends, I'm truly glad this existed. Every 5man heroic run is a joy. Its either i'm truly lucky or somehow i convince trolls to play nice.

Lastly, Blizzard has targeted accessibility over good engaging content, and I don't care how much you pretend to say that such accessible content is engaging because in it's current format it isn't, people play and then they leave quite fast because of how accessible it is. So if we're not the target audience and we leave, the people who stay eventually leave to, because that is what is happening right now, it's a cascade effect. There is a middle ground to be met, somewhere between TBC and WotLK, but Blizzard horrible overshot the mark or didn't want the game to go there at all (due to the vocal player feedback), and the game has been steadily declining since then.

WOW in pandaland is arguably the most accessible ever. I love it to hell and back. Yes i've been unsubbed for a bit but I would recommend it heartily to many and recently with a 7day free mail coupon, I see its as amazingly fun and accessible as ever. There is no middle ground. There is only more and more accessibility until Blizzard decides to change course. You think the above changes are too much? You haven't seen nothing yet. Look at what is on the horizon or recently done in pandaland

PVP is targeted as a place that isn't accessible. They impose an ilvl ceiling. They increase the ease of gearing. There's probably quite a bit more they can do to make it more accessible too.

LFR is targeted as a place that isn't accessible enough. You get a stacking buff when you wipe now. Its a pretty powerful buff too at 5% a stack. Any boss that causes too many wipes gets pounded by the nerfbat. There's a lot more they can do as well.

The levelling curve is probably the next on their list but the direction is clear. Accessibility is the goal. Exclusiveness is not what they want but they'll occasionally throw a bone to the elitist like having achievements for prenerf content.

[Vintersol]

I have played since vanilla. I met dozens of people that wouldn't do heroics because the tuning was too high. It had nothing to do with being unable to use action bars. Some people don't play for the challenge over the reward and experience. They play flag football with the brows because it's fun, not because they are looking to join the pros.

Then you had non heroics. But wait... you want better rewards, but don't want to play better. Why you should get better rewards, if you don't want to play better to get them? Heroics in cata weren't hard. The problem is, that the 5 mans in wotlk were far too easy, so most of the players unlearned to handle the game right.

You believe that, chum. You are dead wrong, but you go on believing it.

I think, i'm right with that. But feel free to prove me wrong.