The Science Delusion

[crzyman007]

People always berate people for living as "sheep" and not realizing the "truth", while not realizing that their very argument highly suggests that they themselves are also being "sheep" to a different mode of thought or "truth".

My truth doesn't make a sheep. My truth tells me I am a free man. I have always lived my life this way never had anyone to tell me i have to wake up at certain time. Never ever had to take orders from others,etc.

[Theodon]

O trust me, everybody treats you with the decency you deserve. In life you always get what you deserve whether its good or bad. The mind just creates the illusion that you deserve or don't deserve something.

That statement seems contradictory. "The mind just creates the illusion that you deserve or don't deserve something" so what truly determines what you deserve if what the mind creates is just an illusion? Cats? How can you say that everyone gets what they deserve if you are using your own mind to determine how you treat a person based on what they deserve, if that mind just creates an illusion?

[Stir]

You gave me some ideas. XD

Yay!
Anyway, back on topic. *Ahem*
It is wrong to assume something is true just because someone says it is. It is also wrong to assume something is untrue simply because it is difficult to understand.

They always think those hallucinations are real. That's sort of the point. They go to great lengths to justify that belief, because nobody wants to think they're crazy.

Not entirely true, but close enough. I accept that I'm nuts, and my... Periodic switches on the perception of reality (meaning the way I perceive to perceive it, but not the perception itself; I've tested it :P) are a result of my insanity.
But Nish does have a point with several kinds of medication. Psychiatrists do not always know what medicine will help whom. I've had medication that did turn me into a blathering zombie. I've also had medication that made me excessively nervous. Neither of those actually changed or stopped the psychotic episodes.
So... I rather just accept I'm not all there than to be on meds that make me worse. Every case is different, and a lot of people can be helped with medication, but a lot of people are also worse off for taking them.

[crzyman007]

That statement seems contradictory. "The mind just creates the illusion that you deserve or don't deserve something" so what truly determines what you deserve if what the mind creates is just an illusion? Cats? How can you say that everyone gets what they deserve if you are using your own mind to determine how you treat a person based on what they deserve, if that mind just creates an illusion?

Your actions determine what you deserve but sometimes you think you are doing the right thing but you are not. For example an american soldier killing an innocent civilian in Iraq. He might think he is doing it to protect his country but in reality he's just doing it for a pay check and for oil.

[Uvwaex]

But I'm not so you are just confusing those who believe you. This is the same thing I been saying. At least we both agree in that aspect. I just think that religion and science will meet at one point and we will look back and laugh at those who sided with either and didn't see the whole picture for what it is.

Science and religion have already met. Because they are both human made models of understanding stimulus in the world. Science does so through experimentation, peer-review, measurable physical evidence, and supports whatever at the time provides the most evidence. Religion does so through what a bunch of people with very limited technology saw "correlations" (but not necessarily causation) between stimulus of the world, and put it in a book. Science makes plenty of correlation errors as well. But they are willing to change those based on new evidence. Religion takes what the book says and applies it to the world. Science takes what the world says and applies it to a book.

[Garnier Fructis]

His knowledge in science is on a level taught in the 6th grade in school. Pretty much everything he said is wrong on all points. I think he is just trolling TED.

Yea, his whole talk on physical constants makes me believe he's trolling. For someone who graduate with a degree in biochemistry with top honors and went on to get a PHD in the subject, I'm absolutely mystified that he would ignore basic tenets of physical measurement.

[Uvwaex]

Your actions.

Your actions work in the mind. You are writing this, this action, because your brain is telling you to. Who has the scale that determines "deserving"? Who decides what actions or THOUGHTS or WHATEVER mode of human perception and reaction determine deserving?

[Deleted]

I don't understand. What is this about ?! Seems like he's just talking a lot of nonsense without any point to it. Might as well be reciting the phone book, it would be equally useful.

[Uvwaex]

My truth doesn't make a sheep. My truth tells me I am a free man. I have always lived my life this way never had anyone to tell me i have to wake up at certain time. Never ever had to take orders from others,etc.

My truth tells me I am a free man as well. Yet they are different truths.

[Iuviel]

Seriously folks, you all should stop responding to this OP. We should not encourage nonsense of his kind. Some of the other debate going on in this thread is pretty good, but this Crzy guy just is not worth it. Don't Feed the...

[Nish77]

You're being a little too generalizing, Nish. Doctors know precisely how antipsychotic drugs work. They are designed to suppress specific receptors in the brain, and different antipsychotics are used to treat different kinds of schizophrenia, of which there are quite a few different types (and severities.)

You make it sound like they're just shoving folk medicines down patients' throats and wondering what will happen. I like to believe that we've gotten slightly past ingesting vials of liquid mercury in the hopes of curing our ails.

No they do not I had a long conversation with a psychiatrist who wanted me to continue on to be a pharmacist. That is exactly what she told me. You do realize that we do 'not' know how alcohol affects the brain to produce the drunken state? They really do not know how antipsychotics work. They 'do' know how antidepressants work. Big difference there. Antipsychotics work by turning off portions of the brain. They don't know exactly how and they don't know exactly where they 'think' (the psychiatrist's words were think) the problem in the brain exists so they try various regions. Psychiatrists want people to have confidence in what they do. Most are good people as most people are good people. That's the best we've got and we keep trying as far as medicine goes.

No, what they know is it shuts off brain activity that they can see in an mri. That's it. No folk medicine it does what they know and they hope that fixes it. All of those severities and all of those different diagnoses are basically the same thing. Well, severities are severities but most are just schizophrenia mixed with deperssion. Or schiophrenia mixed with a fear of something coming after you. I have in 5 minute sessions been diagnosed with 10 different types of schizophrenia like diagnoses by 10 different doctors. Few of them will take time out to explain this but then most people will kind of have some of it go past their head. It's really a fairly unknown area of medicine.

I am certain that someone would have said "psychiatrists know a little bit more about the brain these days and that's why they cut off the frontal lobe" not much longer ago than when my stepfather was 20 years old.

-Nish

[Spectral]

For someone who graduate with a degree in biochemistry with top honors and went on to get a PHD in the subject, I'm absolutely mystified that he would ignore basic tenets of physical measurement.

It's actually pretty easy to forget the basic philosophy behind measurement when you're in biological sciences. There's an awful lot of graduate level biochem research that doesn't really require someone to know much about measurements. That's not really a good way to be, but I don't think it's unique. This particular guy has a really big vested interest in pretending that he doesn't understand, so that's probably not going to help either.

[crzyman007]

Your actions work in the mind. You are writing this, this action, because your brain is telling you to. Who has the scale that determines "deserving"? Who decides what actions or THOUGHTS or WHATEVER mode of human perception and reaction determine deserving?

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." FAB = -FBA
Not for every thought.

[Theodon]

Your actions determine what you deserve. But sometimes you think you are doing the right thing but you are not. For example an american soldier killing an innocent civilian in Iraq. He might think he is doing it to protect his country but in reality he's just doing it for a pay check and for oil.

That is simply your own opinion being projected as fact by you. there's so many variables in that statement that it doesn't answer anything.

That American soldier killing that innocent civilian in your example suggests that they didn't deserve to be killed, yet they were. That shows that your actions do not determine what you deserve, unless that innocent civilian deserved to die for some reason.

If your earlier statement of "O trust me, everybody treats you with the decency you deserve." then you are basically stating that the civilian was treated in a way he deserved to be treated, for whatever reason, because everyone treats you in a way you deserve, so you say, and that American soldier treated him rather harshly if he killed the civvy.

[Dezerte]

I haven't watched the video yet, might do it tomorrow. But I did glance on it, and the opening screen gave me a smile. "TEDx", I guess when your TED talk is so off the walls that it doesn't qualify it means they are being censored, right? Let's ignore the fact that the video exists now, on YouTube (so much for the censoring). TED are generally generous when it comes to who to allow on the stage, so I can only imagine the mountains of fun I'll have to watch tomorrow!

[crzyman007]

That is simply your own opinion being projected as fact by you. there's so many variables in that statement that it doesn't answer anything.

Only one opinion is true though whether it's mine or yours.

[Sayl]

Yea, his whole talk on physical constants makes me believe he's trolling. For someone who graduate with a degree in biochemistry with top honors and went on to get a PHD in the subject, I'm absolutely mystified that he would ignore basic tenets of physical measurement.

Sheldrake has been like that long before trolling was even a thing.

[Speaknoevil]

1. Nature is mechanical or machine like

Causality dictates unconscious phenomena.

3. The laws or constants of nature are fixed

4. The total amount of matter and energy is always the same

Exceptions are known, and accepted; science changes when new evidence is introduced.

5. Nature is purposeless

From where is it's "purpose" imposed.

2. All matter is unconscious

6. Biological heredity is material

7. Memories are stored inside your brain

8. Your mind is inside your head

9. Psychic phenomena like telepathy is not possible

Proven.

10. Mechanistic medicine is the only kind that works

False statement meant to strengthen a weak argument with inaccurate points, like the rest of it; While still mechanistic in essence, placebo effects and hope have been shown to aid recovery of non-terminal ailments.

[crzyman007]

Causality dictates unconscious phenomena.



Proven.



Exceptions are known, and accepted; science changes when new evidence is introduced.



Exceptions are known.



From where is it's "purpose" imposed.



Proven.



Proven.



Proven.



Proven.



False statement meant to strengthen a weak argument with inaccurate points, like the rest of it; While still mechanistic in essence, placebo effects and hope have been shown to aid recovery of non-terminal ailments.

Just because someone told you that something was proven doesn't make it so. It can also be disproven if new proof arises that contradicts it.

Check out Dr Quantum he explains that matter is conscious. I know this isn't proof but just because I don't have some doesn't mean there isn't some out there.

[Kraenen]

ugh. armchair psychologists thinking schizophrenia is just "seeing things that aren't there to other people"...