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  1. #21
    from my experience with raiding in old WoW and even EQ1 some players loved that only a small percent got to see or beat the raid content. it made them feel superior and more special than other players. some folks didn't act that way, but in others it created a very hostile attitude toward those who couldn't raid or didn't want to. you can still see that kind of hostility today with heroic/normal raiders lashing out at Blizzard and other players who can't or won't raid normal/heroic.

    lfr and flex raiding is a great idea. it's not evil. just because someone else gets to experience the content doesn't make a normal/heroic raider's experience less valuable.

  2. #22
    Raided, server-first progression, in Classic. I NEVER want to ever see something like that back again. It was a second job. That wasn't fun. Oh yay, shiny gear. When I had no spare time to utilize it, cause I was farming for mats for consumables or in-raid, what did it bloody-well matter (rest of my time was split generally between working and sleeping)?

    Didn't raid in TBC at all (had a small friends & family guild), had fun with what I did, which was Heroics, a couple alts, and not spending an extra 10+hrs a week PREPPING for raids, to do stuff not on WoW.

    Raided semi-hard in WotLK through Uld > ICC (10M, so say what you will, we couldn't field a 25M). We made progress, but suffered from attendance/performance issues when it came to Yogg-Saron, and most of ICC.

    Raided casually in 4.0, only left with the 3 final normal bosses unkilled. No raiding in 4.2, LFR since 4.3, and frankly, no complaints.

    Is LFR faceroll easy? Yes. Does it fit my schedule since I work graveyard and couldn't commit to a real guild because of that? Yes. Might Flex-Raid allow me a bit more challenge? Yeah, good chance, provided enough people are online.

    Flex Raid is also likely going to cause a huge boom on OpenRaid too, since it is RealID/BattleTag compliant too. And since the loot system is LFR-style (which frankly, is far better, no matter how much people say the Dragon Soul method was superior... it wasn't, you just liked being able to steal gear from others), it won't even cause loot-based drama in them.

  3. #23
    Brewmaster Alayea's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Flex will use Personal Loot to avoid PUG drama, is it possible to let raid lead pick to use real loot system if just friends?
    Not for 5.4 but if there is demand, we can look into adding the more traditional raid loot systems. We don't currently have a system that lets a boss drop more loot that scales with size other than personal loot. The problem is the scaling size. We don't want any pressure to not invite someone for fear of less loot.
    The issue with loot drop scaling I can understand. However, I would still prefer not using the LFR loot system for Flex Raids unless you will have the loot be tradable to other players (unlike LFR).


    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    What exactly is the Engineering "Sky Claw"? I've heard some blue talk about it not being released in 5.3 yet. Any explanation?
    It was an Engineering mount that ended up having a lot of bugs. We're considering a different Engineering mount.
    -_- ... o_- ... o_o ... D=

    I'm still holding out hope for the Sky Claw mount.
    Alayea - Enhance/Resto (Main) Lithala - BM/Surv Gekkani - Disc/Shadow
    Mathrie - Fury/Prot Mayae - Resto/Bal Elita - Frost/Blood
    Chrystie - Frost/Fire Draika - Combat Ioreth - Ret/Prot
    Vexbolt - Demo/Destro Yin - WW

  4. #24
    Elemental Lord Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alayea View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    What exactly is the Engineering "Sky Claw"? I've heard some blue talk about it not being released in 5.3 yet. Any explanation?
    It was an Engineering mount that ended up having a lot of bugs. We're considering a different Engineering mount.
    -_- ... o_- ... o_o ... D=

    I'm still holding out hope for the Sky Claw mount.
    As long as it doesn't require any living steel...
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #25
    Brewmaster Alayea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    As long as it doesn't require any living steel...
    Uh, yeah... er, about that... Sky Claw
    Last edited by Alayea; 2013-06-10 at 01:11 AM.
    Alayea - Enhance/Resto (Main) Lithala - BM/Surv Gekkani - Disc/Shadow
    Mathrie - Fury/Prot Mayae - Resto/Bal Elita - Frost/Blood
    Chrystie - Frost/Fire Draika - Combat Ioreth - Ret/Prot
    Vexbolt - Demo/Destro Yin - WW

  6. #26
    The 3 lockout burning people out is a potential problem.

    What Blizzard needs to do is have flex and LFR have a shared lockout for loot, but make it so that flex has a chance to drop both LFR and Flex ilevel gear. If you already ran LFR and later do flex you only get a chance at flex ilevel gear, and if you do flex first you get no loot from LFR. Since the flex loot is already distributed in the LFR system, you don't have to hard lock players out of running flex multiple times either.

    Also, with the addition to flex:
    1. Make LFR idiot proof. I mean seriously, as in you can't die. If you take fatal damage you simply get a debuf that decreases damage and healing output. You could solo LFR, it would just take forever.
    2. Be able to queue for 1 boss at a time. Not everyone has time for a full clear.
    3. Allow players to enter LFR mid boss fight and don't lock players out if they aren't inside the gate. If people don't want to wait for that last dps, then let them start without them.
    4. Make all loot on LFR shared between all bosses. Make queues select a random boss (it prefers one you haven't killed). And limit the number of LFR bosses you can do a week for loot to say 3-4 (maybe always loot bags for additional bosses). Along with #1, even if people really hate one of the bosses, it won't be worth leaving and re queuing.
    5. Along with #4, make trash shorter, and balance boss fights to all run about the same time. Total time for doing trash + 1 boss should be 15-20 minutes, same as dungeon finder.
    6. Finally, make the ilevel for 5.4 LFR 520, so that players who grinded out normal, but didn't really do much HC, don't have much incentive to do LFR.

  7. #27
    Just what WoW needed, to heed advice from a company owned by chinese overlords, with a terrible carrot-on-a-stick Pay2Win model, and a toxic attitude towards e-sports (screwing the competition over and bribing their way to every big event).

    Morello is 100% cancer cells.

  8. #28
    "Flex raid: why not a shared loot lockout with LfR, so people don't feel 'forced' to do 3 raid difficulties per week?
    "Hey, GC can you join our flex raid?" "Oh, sorry dude, I ran LFR on Sunday." (Source)
    Thats ridiculous. "Hey, GC can you join our Hc raid?" "Oh, sorry dude, I ran Normal on Sunday"."

    I love the sound of GC getting owned. What a jackass.

  9. #29
    If you don't want to raid every difficulty and your guild is making you then you need a new guild. Why would you stick around with people who force you to do something that isn't fun for you? There will be plenty of guilds that won't force that and still clear content.

  10. #30
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    Lol@ the league of legends jackoff talking about WoW. He did nothing but use the exact gametype of a popular mod then throw cash store items into it. Like he has anything to contribute at all, to anyone.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    If you don't want to raid every difficulty and your guild is making you then you need a new guild. Why would you stick around with people who force you to do something that isn't fun for you? There will be plenty of guilds that won't force that and still clear content.
    Make sure to read this everyone. Written by a raider who shows up in quest greens, ungemmed, unenchanted. I mean what's the point right? If your guild is making you use flasks and food and gems and all that why would you stick around? There are plenty of guilds that won't force you to waste time on stuff like that.

  12. #32
    How could you think burning crusade was the "Sweet Spot". A majority of the players couldn't even get to 3/4's of those raids. Hardly anyone ever see's end game content. I mean, christ. Your mindset works for League of Legends just fine. I can't argue with the results. But I sure as hell can tell you that your mindset would of made WoW a worse game by far, and I would of left it after BC instead of sticking around for MoP. Do not go into the MMO Business again, as I think you were with Guild Wars right?

    I'm saying I don't think raids should be inclusive, as the exclusivity of content creates a psychological trick in your brain that makes the game feel endless. Basically, my direction would be (and maybe incorrectly - I haven't tried!) that all content is not for everyone. If anything, League proves core gaming has a big audience, and you don't have to make things easy.

    Exactly not all content is meant to be seen by everyone. Bads are at the back of the bus but they did their downs level of raiding. I am amazed they actually admitted to wanting a dumbed down version of Normal raiding that is just above LFR. I am guessing that once they complete tard mode their tier helmets will resemble bike helmets to help protect them from injury while playing.

    TBC: people werent rewarded for terrible. What a shocker.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-10 at 04:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by subanark View Post
    The 3 lockout burning people out is a potential problem.

    What Blizzard needs to do is have flex and LFR have a shared lockout for loot, but make it so that flex has a chance to drop both LFR and Flex ilevel gear. If you already ran LFR and later do flex you only get a chance at flex ilevel gear, and if you do flex first you get no loot from LFR. Since the flex loot is already distributed in the LFR system, you don't have to hard lock players out of running flex multiple times either.

    Also, with the addition to flex:
    1. Make LFR idiot proof. I mean seriously, as in you can't die. If you take fatal damage you simply get a debuf that decreases damage and healing output. You could solo LFR, it would just take forever.
    2. Be able to queue for 1 boss at a time. Not everyone has time for a full clear.
    3. Allow players to enter LFR mid boss fight and don't lock players out if they aren't inside the gate. If people don't want to wait for that last dps, then let them start without them.
    4. Make all loot on LFR shared between all bosses. Make queues select a random boss (it prefers one you haven't killed). And limit the number of LFR bosses you can do a week for loot to say 3-4 (maybe always loot bags for additional bosses). Along with #1, even if people really hate one of the bosses, it won't be worth leaving and re queuing.
    5. Along with #4, make trash shorter, and balance boss fights to all run about the same time. Total time for doing trash + 1 boss should be 15-20 minutes, same as dungeon finder.
    6. Finally, make the ilevel for 5.4 LFR 520, so that players who grinded out normal, but didn't really do much HC, don't have much incentive to do LFR.
    Lockout at only 520 for Lfr? By the time that content comes out, if you dont have 520 then gear isnt a priority anyways nor raiding.

  13. #33
    A good question now is... Will Flex remove the "need" to nerf normal/heroic content? Except from QoL/Balance/Difficult adjusting/Bug fixes.

  14. #34
    All you see now is whiny forumers, people, if you don't like wow, start playing sonething else! Still a big wow fan myself

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkHighwind View Post
    Just what WoW needed, to heed advice from a company owned by chinese overlords, with a terrible carrot-on-a-stick Pay2Win model, and a toxic attitude towards e-sports (screwing the competition over and bribing their way to every big event).

    Morello is 100% cancer cells.
    Have you actually played LoL? The only thing you have to spend money on in the cash shop is skins and exp boosts. Everything else character and power related you can buy with currency you get for playing games.

    Actually, many people look at LoL as how a good F2P game manages its cash shop.

  16. #36
    "so what I gathered from this blizz is going to do what ever it wants to and if you dont like it you can fuck off and go play some shitty F2P game"

    This is an accurate assessment of the current MMO market. There is only one, and that is WOW. Many other companies tried to compete with WOW, and, they got CRUSHED.

    As in... crushed beyond belief. Crushed as in beaten to a bloody pulp. Or even LESS than a bloody pulp.

    My Blizzard-fanboi beliefs do not prevent me from being kind of bummed that the other MMOs are doing as poorly as they are.
    At least WOW is still going strong. For now anyways. Enjoy it while it lasts!

  17. #37
    It is very very true, that wow has been made exponentially easier. They gradually changed the difficulty of the game when some people (worse players) expressed that is was too hard.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Leucippe
    All you see now is whiny forumers, people, if you don't like wow, start playing sonething else! Still a big wow fan myself
    Indeed, I can't truly understand why these people have to ask for the removal of a game feature like LFR.
    I mean, does it bother you? Don't do it!
    Simple as that! No need to be childish and cry like mad : "Remove LFR! Remove LFR! Remove LFR!"
    I agree that GC sometimes talks crap but if I was in his shoes I wouldn't even reply to those trolls.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrifear View Post
    This is so wrong, in vanilla i raided. Love leveling my toon and getting more stuff. It was entertaining. Now it's just grind fest or "maybe i'll do couple of lfr and hope to get some loot". Back then it's was an accomplishement to get some loot. Novadays, you can get same loot but little difference in stats. So bring back old days and don't say that.
    Now it's just grind fest
    Are you joking? Vanilla was much more of a grind fest than WoW is today. There were 40 man raids back then. Can you imagine how long it took to gear 40 players so they could progress from Molten Core to Blackwing Lair? Also, you had attunements, which was mandatory for anyone wanting to even set foot in the raid. The vast amount of materials required to craft one piece of gear was insanely steep. Then if you needed to recruit a new raider, you had to trek through MC all over again to help gear them up.
    Seriously, take off those rose tinted goggles and think about what you are talking about before you post.

  20. #40
    Pandaren Monk Bantokar's Avatar
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    •A shared lockout with LFR or Normal doesn't work, as it would punish people who ran LFR or Normal and then want to do a Flex run with friends.

    So just remove the shared lockout and difficulty of 10 and 25 mans. Stop trying to bandaid past moronic decissions and just revert them. How hard can it be?

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