Should Garrosh be killable on LFR difficulty?

[Kaleredar]

Why does anyone care what others do? If a group of casual people kill the final boss and get some gear it has no effect on me or my game in anyway. So I do not care. I only care about my guild group and how we will approach Normal/Heroic modes.

When I say I dont care I mean it really doesnt bother me, not that I dont care about people in general.

Well said. But unfortunately, from my experience it seems that appeals to decency, logic, and critical thinking have no place in "LFR existence" complaint threads.

[Blayze]

Let's put this into context. If you argue for not letting LFR players see Garrosh, I get to stop you watching the season finales (and tear out the last chapter of each book) of Game of Thrones, because you haven't proved yourself as a "real" fan. Besides, you can watch the reviews on YouTube after the fact.

[Bsod]

Either not killable or Killable with no loot. If LFR is the solution for casuals to see content. Let them see the content, but take away the loot. Their whole goal with LFR is to see content

wait what??
its always about the loot!
just let him get away and leave a chest with the loot and all are happy.

[Resentful]

As much as I am retired a top tier raider I'm going to be quite blunt here It would be fucking stupid on there move and would just piss a lot of people off with that being said I wouldn't be surprised if it does the whole ragnaros thing then within heroic Sha of pride comes outa nowhere giving the content to the heroic raiders just like heroic ragnaros.

[Floopa]

Let's put this into context. If you argue for not letting LFR players see Garrosh, I get to stop you watching the season finales (and tear out the last chapter of each book) of Game of Thrones, because you haven't proved yourself as a "real" fan. Besides, you can watch the reviews on YouTube after the fact.

What's Game of Thrones? :s

Hopefully heroic raiders can fight the true enemy of the expansion. Lorewalker Cho.

[PaladinBash]

LFR is real content and it's here to stay. It will have all the loot and doodads that every other difficulty has had. Normal raids aren't special. Heroic raids aren't really even that special anymore either. All the content is the same with just a few extra bells and whistles (Sha of Fear, Ra-Den, whatever). He's the last boss of the expansion and an important lore character, I want to see and experience the full content and LFR provides that. If you want to do it on Normal or Heroic as well, good for you. You will do it before I do it on LFR...unless you're bad and can't even clear Normal before he unlocks in LFR a month or two in. LFR's great and has improved the game for lots of people. I don't care the least bit about your sense of entitlement or your special snowflake status of killing a boss before me. It doesn't matter. I want to kill that boss and again, LFR provides that for me in a way I can easily manage without devoting time and effort to doing it.

You're not a better player, you're not more dedicated, you're not more important to me or Blizzard or anyone but yourself. Get over it. LFR is getting full access and loot and Flexiraid is even getting mounts, titles and whatever else there is. That's how the game is now and it's not only better, it's here to stay.

[Floopa]

LFR is real content and it's here to stay. It will have all the loot and doodads that every other difficulty has had. Normal raids aren't special. Heroic raids aren't really even that special anymore either. All the content is the same with just a few extra bells and whistles (Sha of Fear, Ra-Den, whatever). He's the last boss of the expansion and an important lore character, I want to see and experience the full content and LFR provides that. If you want to do it on Normal or Heroic as well, good for you. You will do it before I do it on LFR...unless you're bad and can't even clear Normal before he unlocks in LFR a month or two in. LFR's great and has improved the game for lots of people. I don't care the least bit about your sense of entitlement or your special snowflake status of killing a boss before me. It doesn't matter. I want to kill that boss and again, LFR provides that for me in a way I can easily manage without devoting time and effort to doing it.

You're not a better player, you're not more dedicated, you're not more important to me or Blizzard or anyone but yourself. Get over it. LFR is getting full access and loot and Flexiraid is even getting mounts, titles and whatever else there is. That's how the game is now and it's not only better, it's here to stay.

Which is why PTR testing is normally done by heroic raiders. Which is why Blizzard values heroic raider feedback more. Which is why heroic difficulties get their own bosses. Keep believing you're as good as heroic raiders, son.

[Deleted]

You will do it before I do it on LFR...

That's the point. "Regular raiders" will be able to see the content long before the LFR crowd does; SoO will most likely be no different than ToT and also be gated.
At least they have the opportunity to - if they are too bad for it, they won't, but that's not LFRs fault then.

[StaeleAilar]

Either not killable or Killable with no loot. If LFR is the solution for casuals to see content. Let them see the content, but take away the loot. Their whole goal with LFR is to see content.

See that was the original argument for implementing the abomination we must now deal with, however if gear wasn't involved, noone would do it and they'd bitch that they couldn't get gear.
I just can't take blizzard seriously anymore, i'd given them the benefit of the doubt for the last year or two but now throwing in flexi raid... yeah.. one customer they've lost. Although maybe if i go casual and subscribe one month every 4 months they'll cater to what i want..

[Deleted]

unless its a purely optional boss, which has no bearing on the story line of the expansion, (example Ra-Den) Then what happens in one raid should happen in every raid, only thing that should change, is HP, DMG Done to Raid, And Mechanics.

People who follow the lore of the expansion, and are actually invested in the story don't just raid heroic, If he was only killed in heroic it would mean a massive story re-write to explain why only the heroic version was killed.

also has it been announced that he is killed or just theorized ?

[Ferocity]

Either not killable or Killable with no loot. If LFR is the solution for casuals to see content. Let them see the content, but take away the loot. Their whole goal with LFR is to see content.

What a tired argument. There is youtube for seeing content.

Which is why PTR testing is normally done by heroic raiders. Which is why Blizzard values heroic raider feedback more. Which is why heroic difficulties get their own bosses. Keep believing you're as good as heroic raiders, son.

And that's where game started to go downhill. Overtuned normal modes and buggy mechanics, simply because PTR isn't used for catching some bugs but rather as playground to learn boss mechanics and exploits (without actually informing Blizzard about those) before anyone else. If anything, raid content shouldn't be on PTR altogether.

[Jessicka]

Even if i would explain it alot of people would just ignore it.
We care because the so caled "casual players" are the recruiting pool for our guilds. No recruits=guilds disbanding= more subs being lost.
Right now there is little to no incentive for a new player to start raiding. He would just log on, do lfr, feel as if he completed the game and be done with it.

This just isn't true. Casual players aren't your recruitment base. And frankly, completing the raiding aspect of the game isn't even close to "completing the game" for them either. The concept of completion in WoW is a very wildly varying thing across the playerbase. Players focused on raiding forget that, because that's their little bubble.

A lot is said about how in TBC players were "happy" to not be able to see SWP. The players in LFR are those exact same players. They're content to not be able to see Heroic Modes. For them, that content is just as unattainable, pointless and futile to them as chasing Gladiator is to me. Even things like Loremaster or The Beloved are pretty long roads that take a fair amount of commitment - and people enjoy pursuing those.

Back on topic though. I think Garrosh should be killable in LFR; Sha of Pride will be the last boss though and it should have an extra 'Heroic phase' like Ragnaros. Even so, for the past expansion and a half; it has become evident that the exclusivity of mounts, titles, extra bits of green text on loot, and extra bosses are not what's needed to incentivise Normal or Heroic raiding and therefore clearly not what those players actually want or need to continue. There would be no harm in having all the bosses in LFR.

[Durenek]

Think of it from the perspective of a business. You have a product. People pay for the product. In that regard everyone is equal. Suddenly, people who use the product more frequently (who are still paying as much as the people who use it infrequently) demand that the infrequent users do not get access to all of its features.

Your options are A) listen to the vocal part of your consumer base and alienate a chunk of your customers by limiting their access or B) Ignore the vocal (usually) minority and carry on with your proven, successful business model.

I've never understood why people bitch and moan about LFR. If you don't like it, don't use it. But I guarantee you, the people who complain about it are entirely ok with gearing up any bits they need to replace from LFR as an interim fix between upgrading their normal/heroic mode pieces.

TL;DR: Other people getting loot from LFR does not affect your gameplay whatsoever.

[Chirri]

Stop worrying about how others have their fun or raid. So long as it's not a massive exploit, the only thing hurting your enjoyment is yourself.

Beating bosses on Normal and Heroic mode isn't enough to make you feel special? You can only feel special when you have one more reason to separate yourself from other people? Sounds like it's not about the loot for you, it's about the ego trip. No loot for Normal or Heroic modes, it's about having more skill, isn't it?

...no, I'm not an LFR Hero. <_<

[deathfury]

I don't get the hate for lfr, since it's filled the role of gearing up to current content (how the old hc 5mans were) if you take it's loot away, you have to further gear up recruits or alts for subbing in (or rerolling). Finding geared people can be tough especially with the status of some of the servers populations.
LFR doesn't get mounts, meta's, achieves, or guild achieves.
Yet it has this hate parade that follows it around. Don't get it.

[AncientNecro]

Killable, with loot. Of course. The QQ of all those wannabe-pros (normal raiders) is ridiculous, let them drown in their own tears.

Agreed. If Deathwing, the aspect that tried to break the world, could be killed and loot on LFR difficulty, so too can an out of control warchief.

Another option would be to only make him killable on heroic difficulty. No flex, no normal.

I find it very humorous how many midcores like to excludes people "below" them in terms of progression and achievement, yet would be irate if the exclusionary line were drawn ahead of them.

[pimpeddakota]

There's talk of making a few of the final bosses unavailable for LFR folks but available for the other 3 difficulties (flex/normal/heroic) in SoO. If we assume that the final 2 bosses will be Sha of Pride and Garrosh, this would mean that LFR folks would be unable to kill Garrosh, the son of a bitch who was responsible for 90% of the evil inflicted upon Pandaria, the Darkspear Tribe, the Alliance and the Tauren. For 2 whole expansions, Garrosh was showcased as the master evil, the bastard from hell that only had regards for his own horde. To not allow your biggest audience to kill him would be like only allowing people who have read the books to watch the season finales of Game of Thrones.

I know that I've looked forward to killing him since 4.0, but I'm just about only able to play LFR. If I can't kill Garrosh in LFR, I might as well just unsubscribe for a few months.

Should Garrosh be killable on LFR?

I agree with you. All bosses should be available on LFR just in that tier release that blizzard is so good at. If blizzard still wants casuals to be paying they will allow make all bosses available. Just make some cool video scenes for Normal and an even more awesome video for heroic.

[Deleted]

Agreed. If Deathwing, the aspect that tried to break the world, could be killed and loot on LFR difficulty, so too can an out of control warchief.

Wait? We actually fought Deathwing? Thought the end boss of cataclysm were some ugly tentacles and oozes.
Just kidding, of course.

[Temp name]

I don't see why he shouldn't.. He's a boss just like any other, with loot like all the others.

[Vargur]

LFR is the solution for people who can't raid on any kind of schedule on a backwater server to "raid."

I can see content fine on Youtube.

People have to spam trade for 30 minutes to find a group for heroic scenarios on my server so I don't think Flex pugs are going to be some kind of breakthrough.

Really? I can find people in 1 minute for it.