[Megathread] Super Smash Bros. Wii U - 21 Nov 2014

[zito]

When Zero, the pretty much undisputed best player in Smash 4, says that she is ridiculous and carries players, then I'd say she deserves nerfing.

He is actually full of shit imo. Calling her cancer 5 days after she was released and then she was nerfed (which a lot of people didn't know) and she is not hard to deal with. DI out of her zero to death combos because that's what everyone was crying about.

You know what was actually cancer? Pre nerfed diddy, and that's why he took the top spot. Once diddy got demolished he switched to shiek and Nairos ZSS beat her so hes tech the top player now.

[Poppincaps]

He is actually full of shit imo. Calling her cancer 5 days after she was released and then she was nerfed (which a lot of people didn't know) and she is not hard to deal with. DI out of her zero to death combos because that's what everyone was crying about.

You know what was actually cancer? Pre nerfed diddy, and that's why he took the top spot. Once diddy got demolished he switched to shiek and Nairos ZSS beat her so hes tech the top player now.

Best Sm4sh player in the world or random MMO-Champ poster? Hmm... I think I'll stick with the best player in the world.

[Nelavar]

He is actually full of shit imo. Calling her cancer 5 days after she was released and then she was nerfed (which a lot of people didn't know) and she is not hard to deal with. DI out of her zero to death combos because that's what everyone was crying about.

You know what was actually cancer? Pre nerfed diddy, and that's why he took the top spot. Once diddy got demolished he switched to shiek and Nairos ZSS beat her so hes tech the top player now.

There's more to Bayonetta counterplay than just saying "l2DI".

Something you can SDI (although some characters have a real hard time doing so) is the WT to Uair combo, usually Bayonetta's finisher. Now that is enough for your average For Glory scrub, however on higher levels of play, while you might escape death that way, that is still shitton of damage leading up to the Uair.

As to the combo itself, sure you can get out of some links like divekick > WT by going down and away. However Bayo can read that and go for double divekick or wait and punish the air dodge if high enough. So at best knowing how to DI out of her moves leads to 50/50s once you reach mid percentages.

And this not even touching on how ridiculously safe she is offstage, on witch time, on bat within, on her multidude of combo starters, each with their own direction for optimal DI.

All of this makes Bayonetta ridiculously hard to play against and sadly it does carry players. I don't think calling for a nerf is unjustified.

Zero IS full of shit tho.

[zito]

Ye because bayo is winning all these major tournaments since shes been out....

oh wait

she is a strong character and one of the best, but she isn't broken or cancer compared to any other top tiers

[Nelavar]

Ye because bayo is winning all these major tournaments since shes been out....

oh wait

she is a strong character and one of the best, but she isn't broken or cancer compared to any other top tiers

Her lack of results in majors is certainly a strong counterpoint, because she is one of the best characters I still feel like she deserves a nerf tho, same as the other top characters also deserve one. What I believe needs to happen to her is that her damage gets toned down a bit. Her combo potential should remain the same as that would pretty much break her to the point of being trash tier.

Here's also some data showing the characters that placed in top 16 in tournaments over the last month, weighted by result and size of the tournament.

http://smashboards.com/threads/4br-t...#post-21181708

[zito]

I don't think she needs a further nerf. They toned down witch time quite a lot as it was pre nerfed corrin counter ridiculous. Also she can't do anything against shields, much like fox, as none of her grabs/throws kill or combo. And also people don't realize that the more moves she does in the air the more landing lag she gets - people don't punish her when you should and they try to do it when they shouldn't. If you know how to DI she can't zero to death you.

It's the same deal with rosa, people still think she needs a nerf but hello she hasn't won ANYTHING - and people ignore her huge weakness which is luma. Just kill him and she loses her strength.

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I just find it funny how people take Zeros word as god. He called bayo cancer literally a couple days after she came out. Nobody knew the MU or how to fight her yet and it's IRONIC he said anything because he literally got to the top spot with pre patch shiek and diddy when they were worse than pre nerf bayo.

[Nelavar]

I don't think she needs a further nerf. They toned down witch time quite a lot as it was pre nerfed corrin counter ridiculous. Also she can't do anything against shields, much like fox, as none of her grabs/throws kill or combo. And also people don't realize that the more moves she does in the air the more landing lag she gets - people don't punish her when you should and they try to do it when they shouldn't. If you know how to DI she can't zero to death you.

It's the same deal with rosa, people still think she needs a nerf but hello she hasn't won ANYTHING - and people ignore her huge weakness which is luma. Just kill him and she loses her strength.

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I just find it funny how people take Zeros word as god. He called bayo cancer literally a couple days after she came out. Nobody knew the MU or how to fight her yet and it's IRONIC he said anything because he literally got to the top spot with pre patch shiek and diddy when they were worse than pre nerf bayo.

Every character that can be considered top or even high tier deserves a nerf and every low tier deserves a buff as I feel the game we should aim for is a game where every character has an equal chance of winning a tournament. Now this doesn't mean I demand a nerf for every top tier immediately or that I believe this will ever happen. It is simply my stance on whether or not a nerf is deserved or not.

Also do give credit to Zero's achievements. Loads of other people also played Sheik and Diddy (especially Diddy) yet still he consistently won tournaments. I wouldn't be too surprised if he also placed high in EVO with Sheik and Diddy after the nerfs now.

[MrExcelion]

Not 100% confirmed but it might be a Bayo nerf patch

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/c...nly_character/

[johnhoftb]

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-6...ussion.436806/

[zito]

Ha called it

I don't play the character but some of the nerfs were over done. Diver kick is no longer possible to combo off of so why the fuck would you still use it?

[Nelavar]

Still too early to call her fucked up, but damn. Witch Twist SDI multiplier is huge for escaping any follow up for it, Afterburner Kick combo potential got destroyed and it's hitbox was also quite nerfed.

These two are probably the most significant changes, dtilt hitbox nerf and Fair damage nerf helps but that is the kind of stuff that I wanted to see. Things that simply tone down the character a bit while not destroying her. The ABK nerf might have accomplished that though.

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Some visualizations from altered 3DS games where people implemented the changes themselves:

https://embed.gyazo.com/f7e469008b7c...584c2f448c.mp4

https://vid.me/Sxk9

[zito]

they have to re do the trailer because she'll be nothing like it is in that trailer. They pretty much removed 2 combos shown in that video.