1. #3121
    Hell's I'm all for it. It would make multi-dotting more interesting. Throw our cleave abilities on top of that? Sweet.

    In all this talk I haven't seen any feedback on the new Glyph of Havoc. I'm sure it will be on a fight by fight basis but does anyone have any PTR feedback on it?

    @Mr. Happy: I don't think FnB Immolate is affected by the new MF.




    Yet
    Last edited by Grizelda; 2013-08-21 at 10:01 PM.

  2. #3122
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    Hah I had forgotten about MF. Still nearly useless for Destro, guess it will go live this way...

    Destro TODO list :

    - MF is useless for Destro
    - 2pT16 is laughable. I mean really, they still haven't changed that "thing" ? :/
    - Legendary Meta is bad
    - Single/multitarget DPS was nerfed heavily through RoF, although it was already among the worst specs on live. Almost no compensation for this nerf (Immo buff is ~1% single) while it should have been buffed in the first place.

    Come on Blizzard you still have two weeks !
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2013-08-22 at 07:30 AM.
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  3. #3123
    Pit Lord Packers01's Avatar
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    Will three weeks to make some changes. Will be intersting to see what they do.

  4. #3124
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Hah I had forgotten about MF. Still nearly useless for Destro, guess it will go live this way...
    I'm thinking it's time we started voicing our concerns loudly to the dev team, considering we've yet to see anything, and up till today would've gone live next Tuesday.

  5. #3125
    I don't even think we are on their radar.

  6. #3126
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjaguar View Post
    Destruction has ALWAYS been nuke focused but that doesn't mean the spec doesn't need Immolate as the set up spell the same way flame shock is needed for elemental shamans. A set up debuff doesn't make a spec a dot class and buffing immolate's ember regen doesn't change how the spec plays nor does it change how the spec feels. You're still setting up your damage with an initial immolate cast. That's how it's been for 7 years. It is still like that on live.
    I'm not intending to (and I hope I didn't) claim that any buffing of Immolate suddenly makes Destro a DoT spec. I'm just saying that pushing the spec towards that direction (and only in that direction) is against what the design of the spec is and has been since MoP release.

    How often do you cast Immolate on a short-lived add on live? Causing Immo to gen embers just like Incinerate/Conflagrate means you have to cast it on any add that pops up, because as long as it ticks twice you'll get more out of it than that Incinerate/Conflag you were thinking of casting.

  7. #3127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I'm not intending to (and I hope I didn't) claim that any buffing of Immolate suddenly makes Destro a DoT spec. I'm just saying that pushing the spec towards that direction (and only in that direction) is against what the design of the spec is and has been since MoP release.

    How often do you cast Immolate on a short-lived add on live? Causing Immo to gen embers just like Incinerate/Conflagrate means you have to cast it on any add that pops up, because as long as it ticks twice you'll get more out of it than that Incinerate/Conflag you were thinking of casting.
    While I do agree with you, and see what you're getting at, I still don't think it would be all that much of an issue. Chances are if an add really needs to be burst down à la Loa Spirit on council, you would burst it down, not worry about getting maximum embers off it. If it weren't something to be genuinely burst down, and was an add that would be present for upwards of 10 seconds, you would use immolate on it normally anyway. I suppose if you're concerned about an add with a lifespan of around 8 seconds, and reasonably low health, then... Well you've got me. But those are far and few between.

    And at this point, unless Blizz give us buffs to ember generation all over the show, I can't think of any other way to fix AoE (if it really is as broken as Zumzum says), without having some kind of balance implications for single target and/or PvP. Or if they choose to put the damage into ember consumers instead, as you stated they said would be their goal for the RoF nerfs a couple of posts back, then it means our AoE stays sitting in the gutter. I mean there probably IS a way to fix it, but I'm not a Blizz Dev, and don't have time to sit down and work out all of the maths, and adding ember generation to immolate just seems to make the most sense to me, and would be the simplest fix too.

    Also just poking fun at you a little here, but I kinda feel like your concerns of encouraging the use of immolate are a weeee bit irrelevant at the moment, considering we've been using an AoE spell in our single target rotation for 1/2 of this entire expansion... And you're worrying because you think it'd cause interesting spell priority decisions in certain situations? :P
    Last edited by ZaneBusby; 2013-08-21 at 10:43 PM.

  8. #3128
    Quote Originally Posted by ZaneBusby View Post
    While I do agree with you, and see what you're getting at, I still don't think it would be all that much of an issue. Chances are if an add really needs to be burst down à la Loa Spirit on council, you would burst it down, not worry about getting maximum embers off it. If it weren't something to be genuinely burst down, and was an add that would be present for upwards of 10 seconds, you would use immolate on it normally anyway. I suppose if you're concerned about an add with a lifespan of around 8 seconds, and reasonably low health, then... Well you've got me. But those are far and few between.

    And at this point, unless Blizz give us buffs to ember generation all over the show, I can't think of any other way to fix AoE (if it really is as broken as Zumzum says), without having some kind of balance implications for single target and/or PvP. Or if they choose to put the damage into ember consumers instead, as you stated they said would be their goal for the RoF nerfs a couple of posts back, then it means our AoE stays sitting in the gutter. I mean there probably IS a way to fix it, but I'm not a Blizz Dev, and don't have time to sit down and work out all of the maths, and adding ember generation to immolate just seems to make the most sense to me, and would be the simplest fix too.

    Also just poking fun at you a little here, but I kinda feel like your concerns of encouraging the use of immolate are a weeee bit irrelevant at the moment, considering we've been using an AoE spell in our single target rotation for 1/2 of this entire expansion... And you're worrying because you think it'd cause interesting spell priority decisions in certain situations? :P
    I don't really think that buffing Immolate in that way will cause any sort of long lasting issue. I just don't feel like it really "fits" the identity of the spec is all.

    (I wasn't exactly a fan of RoF in the single target rotation either as you might have guessed by now, and I'm glad that it's gone [Assuming they compensate for it. If they don't, then GIEF IT BAK])

  9. #3129
    Oldgodsdamnit our tier looks sexy!

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  10. #3130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Oldgodsdamnit our tier looks sexy!
    I don't think the tier looks very "warlock-y", more of a mix between mage and warlock to be honest. Where are all the dark and gloomy tier sets? T14 may be my new transmog until I get something else.

    As for the repeated questioning over the RoF nerf, it wasn't to nerf destro's damage in any way, it was to remove it from the single target rotation. As long as this loss of damage will be made up through bonus immolate damage and maybe 10% to incinerate, and more ember generation through conflagrates (let's say), the spec shouldn't have changed much.

    I really don't understand what they're doing with UVLS... if they're gonna nerf the proc rate this much they should just change it all together. Make it some mastery proc or something. All they're really doing is just wiping it in our faces for "abusing" the mechanic...
    Last edited by Saferis; 2013-08-22 at 12:20 AM.

  11. #3131
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I don't really think that buffing Immolate in that way will cause any sort of long lasting issue. I just don't feel like it really "fits" the identity of the spec is all.

    (I wasn't exactly a fan of RoF in the single target rotation either as you might have guessed by now, and I'm glad that it's gone [Assuming they compensate for it. If they don't, then GIEF IT BAK])
    I feel like you are really nitpicking at something totally irrelevant in the scope of how the spec would play after a buff to immolate ember regen. It plays the exact same, and is good at the exact same things its always been good at. The reasons have changed throughout the years, but destro has always had a reason to cast immolate before casting nukes and a class overhaul in between expansions hasn't changed that. Linking the spec's damage to Immolate + nukes is closer to the spec's identity than Immolate + nukes + 30% rain of fire.
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  12. #3132
    Yeah but RoF has more green fire involved then Immolate. Therefore RoF>Immolate.

  13. #3133
    I'm with Brusalk in that overbuffing immolate (relative to other ember generators) is a very bad idea. Perhaps we are both gunshy about destro starting down a slippery slope into dots > nukes? Destro at its core should be about its nukes. The spec got severely away from that for a couple expansions. If anything I'd support a glyph that trades immolates up front damage for instant + 3 sec/1 tick duration at the end. Ember generators need a coef buff and ember spenders need to go up about 30%'ish. That's if they don't touch mechanics.

    The delay is great news both for prepping and quality of product of the next few months. So far though all we know is 10% to immolate is ~1% gain and we are down 30% ember generation single target and quite a bit more in multi target. I still notice sustainability issues trying to aoe say 5'ish mob packs which is pretty common. The 2pcT16 is still very horrible due to RNG on top of RNG for a minor buff. The 4pcT16 is stronger but has an ICD so it scales inversely with gear or CD's (darksoul/warp/etc). No special trinket interaction (like uvls and demo) to crutch the spec on.

    @strmstrike - I would love to use h/htf wush if I could get one. Our luck on trinkets is beyond horrible and its already been said we are not going back. Though I guess we get a few more chances with the delay announced. I have a 543 UVLS and Chanye (or 530 valor trinket lol). Feels like my options are mainspec aff w' bad trinkets and hope for luck w' amp/KTT or go demo w' crit setup and run chanye + timeless isle trinket for normal modes.

  14. #3134
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    The 4pcT16 is stronger but has an ICD so it scales inversely with gear or CD's (darksoul/warp/etc). No special trinket interaction (like uvls and demo) to crutch the spec on.
    Any idea what the icd is for this?

    It is bad enough that the 2set doesn't scale (conflag cd being static) vs affi and demo both scaling via haste, and #targets in affi's case - even if they had icd's, you can't spam conflag / gaining an ember - either you get the proc or don't. Affi will keep ticking, getting its proc after any icd ends, and demo can fish till it gets a proc, then save sf charges till the proc/icd is over.

    They really would have to do a lot to catch destro up, and they haven't really shown any interest in it so far :l
    Last edited by rijn dael; 2013-08-22 at 02:12 AM.

  15. #3135
    Quote Originally Posted by Saferis View Post
    I don't think the tier looks very "warlock-y", more of a mix between mage and warlock to be honest. Where are all the dark and gloomy tier sets? T14 may be my new transmog until I get something else.
    Personal pref, but I kind of loathe the new tier set (I've hated all the lock tier sets this xpak tbf). At least the new pvp set looks amazing.

  16. #3136
    Honestly would love some sort of instant chaos bolt that costs no ember mechanic. Would help those people complaining that KJC doesn't effect chaos bolt. 20% chance on a Immolate crit. This would boost usefulness of the 2 piece tier 16 as well. Chaos bolt hits like a noodle now in PVP so I don't feel this change would screw that up really at all.
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  17. #3137
    If the patch would have went live next week, then I'm pretty sure Destro would have gonna under the radar like it has been. I felt it was going to be one of those specs they just forget about. Maybe the extra 2 weeks will buy them enough time to look at it better.

  18. #3138
    Stood in the Fire Kagecamia's Avatar
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    Anyone have logs of hwo we are doing on the fights so far in SoO?

    Anyone have a spec by spec comparison between the classes?

    I think it would help a lot if we could actually see some of the numbers we are pulling in comparison to others. Some say we are terrible others are saying we will be fine. I would rather look at the straight dope than be stuck in limbo.

  19. #3139
    Stood in the Fire Zevoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Personal pref, but I kind of loathe the new tier set (I've hated all the lock tier sets this xpak tbf). At least the new pvp set looks amazing.
    Tyrannical Elite from this season was pretty nice, not sure I can say the same about next.

  20. #3140
    Pit Lord Packers01's Avatar
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    I watched the midwinter garrosh fight today and the dest lock was third on a pull and the demo lock was 9th if I remember. Now granted that was one fight but they botrh seemed to in the top ten on others.

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