1. #1961
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    I don't know where you are getting this "destro is awesome for PvP". The only thing destro excels in is RBG's (which are a joke anyways). Most high rated warlocks enjoyed the Cata destro over the easy 4 button MoP destro, Cata destro required skill and practice. The only thing MoP destro requires is being able to spam chaos bolts and 2 shot somebody.

    I will agree with you that demo being viable is good though. Although the way they made it "viable" is completely terrible, you'll never do good as it because if your facing a 2.2k+ Rated team and they see you pop DS they just CC/LoS/etc until its off then your useless for the next 2min. As for it being viable in RBG's..............No serious RBG group is going to take a demo lock unless they are FC'ing.
    The highest rated warlock team on tich during 5.2 was fire/destro mls. Pre 5.2 you saw very few warlocks on the ladders since we sucked so I won't even go into that. During 5.2 though, destro was king for warlock PvP in both arenas and RBGs. RBGs being a joke is only an opinion anyways, and there are plenty of people that do them seriously. Right nowv on live, you can play as both destro and affliction and do well (2.2k+) so destro isn't too bad. I mainly meant the play style anyways, seeing how it resembles wrath destro more than anything.

    You also can't claim that most high rated players preferred cata destro over mop. Do you have any data at all? Didn't think so. I just know that so far in mop, destro has been the spec most played for both RBGs and arenas. What did it look like in cata? That's right, 99% played affliction while only a few dedicated locks stayed destro and out of those I don't think i saw now than one get gladiator. Cata destro was a ton of fun in pve, and this is coming from someone that had top 10 logs for most fights in DS. In pvp however the spec was a nightmare, having no dispel protection but needing corruption, immolate, doom and shadow flame for max damage. ISF was a pile of shit in PvP. None of our abilities hit for much since our damage was distributed between 9 damage sources. So no, unless you're talking about the 5 locks that stuck with destro and made it over 2k, you're wrong.

    Now back to current destro. Less buttons? yes. Less micro management? yes. Easy? no. The difference between a good warlock and a bad one is enormous and timing is more important than anything right now. Can you pown noobs at 1700 rating as destro without much skill? sure. But as soon as you hit 1900-2k where people know how to counter bad locks you need to be skilled. Same goes for RBGs.

    Lastly, demo can do some dumb damage in RBGs and I've played with a few great ones at 2300 mmr.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    I don't miss cata demo in the slightest. The only way to even perform remotely well was to have a second gear set which stacked mastery and equip it during prepot, go into meta, and swap back to your regular gear. That felt very, very stupid and if you messed it up your dps was awful.

    You basically couldn't even do competitive dps as a warlock in cataclysm unless you did this trick. Only reason you were brought was for your 10% sp buff because elemental shamans were even worse.
    As much as I agree with you on cata demo not being fun, the rest of your post just pisses me off.

    All three specs were more than viable during different fights in T11. Affliction and demo were both viable and competitive and I even kept up as destro. During DS all three specs were viable. I ran with Pillow Fort (us #11 10 man) during the end of DS and not only did I keep up with every single dps as destro, I ranked on just about every fight and NEVER felt like I hadn't 100% earned my spot.

    So please, knock it off with the ignorant comments.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Destro has been good for RBG's and that's it when it comes to rated pvp. Half the time not even for its direct damage just spraying aoe into a crowd, especially a crowd around a flag. Compared to other caster comps, hunter/xxx comps, etc locks have not had a place in high end pvp in MoP. So if you are only counting the least relevant aspect of pvp (neither as easy/fun as 2's nor truly competitive like 3's) then destro has had a niche. You don't get CB casts off in pvp vs a team of similar MMR. At least not the darksoul + CD ones and those are the only ones that will budge a HP bar. Look at the most recent tourney vids. The one match where someone used a destro lock (alongside a ele sham) the lock did almost nothing or only a shadowburn on a kill. Meanwhile the ele can easily solo even tourney level players. I'm not saying ele is balanced per se but more that destro is really not competitive by measureable criteria compared to other ranged or "burst" specs.

    Blizz has a twofold problem with chaosbolt in pvp. First its the obvious "how hard does a 3 sec cast using a limited resource need to hit to be worth it". The second is the psychological of seeing a giant green dildo of doom flying at you and seeing 1 big combat log entry. Take the mix of pyro/inferno/LVB/combust, oblit spam (on cloth), powershot/aimedproc/chimera w' some autoshots, FFB/frostbomb/icelance, etc its mentally harder to put together. Especially for your average player who lets face it...isn't exactly nasa material. With the 25% nerf to CB vs players even if it were instant you aren't doing anything outside what other burst specs pull off regularly and that is the height of being "buffed for pvp". Haunt hits harder on the PTR and its far easier to cast plus jacks up aff's damage beyond the direct impact. Its just a white little ball not a giant green dild-er, dragon animation. If haunt was a ginormous boomkin sized purple skull that nomnom'd its jaws in flight people would be crying already.
    During 5.2 the highest rated lock team was with spoilz as a fire Mage at I think the #7 rank on tich. Guess who spoilz played with. A destro lock.

  2. #1962
    Quote Originally Posted by Meleti View Post
    Mages always get fake nerfs that are reverted at the latest in a hotfix within 12 hours of a patch.

  3. #1963
    Kilphd you bring up 1 single team out of a sample size that renders it marginal. I know you are sharp enough to get that so why play that card? Yes I'm sure you are a good destro lock in pvp and pve but that doesn't change the fact of what the spec is in comparison to its peers. Look at the representation, rep as % of playerbase, etc.... Destro/anything was a joke compared to KFC, godcomps, hunter/xxx, all of MoP. Looking both at where destro has been and especially forward to 5.4 (the topic of the thread mind you) destro is in deep trouble for pvp. The 25% nerf to CB has taken any destro lock and either flushed their rating or forced them aff. Even IF a tourney level player has some modicum of success with destro (with tourney level friends/team) they could easily do better with another class. How many times did Beckinsale go on about "if I were a mage/spriest/ele/boomkin we'd never lose" or something even when he was doing well as destro (in 5's mind you same deal w' Nada).

    Saying a spec is good or fine based on a single isolated example is like saying the economy is great due to a few billionaires. Is it really representative of the larger picture or whole? Looking at what we know about 5.4 so far how do you see destro being in any way comparable to other ranged "burst" type specs? Any pure damage measurement shows destro very significantly inferior to demo/aff and its mechanics aren't doing it any favors in pvp. The counters to destro aren't getting nerfed so an inverse buff argument doesn't apply. Just where do you see it matching up based on what the other classes bring?

  4. #1964
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    Kilphd you bring up 1 single team out of a sample size that renders it marginal. I know you are sharp enough to get that so why play that card? Yes I'm sure you are a good destro lock in pvp and pve but that doesn't change the fact of what the spec is in comparison to its peers. Look at the representation, rep as % of playerbase, etc.... Destro/anything was a joke compared to KFC, godcomps, hunter/xxx, all of MoP. Looking both at where destro has been and especially forward to 5.4 (the topic of the thread mind you) destro is in deep trouble for pvp. The 25% nerf to CB has taken any destro lock and either flushed their rating or forced them aff. Even IF a tourney level player has some modicum of success with destro (with tourney level friends/team) they could easily do better with another class. How many times did Beckinsale go on about "if I were a mage/spriest/ele/boomkin we'd never lose" or something even when he was doing well as destro (in 5's mind you same deal w' Nada).

    Saying a spec is good or fine based on a single isolated example is like saying the economy is great due to a few billionaires. Is it really representative of the larger picture or whole? Looking at what we know about 5.4 so far how do you see destro being in any way comparable to other ranged "burst" type specs? Any pure damage measurement shows destro very significantly inferior to demo/aff and its mechanics aren't doing it any favors in pvp. The counters to destro aren't getting nerfed so an inverse buff argument doesn't apply. Just where do you see it matching up based on what the other classes bring?
    Fair enough. Not sure why I even brought up that example. Wishful thinking that destro was a lot better and more viable maybe. However, destro was still the highest represented warlock spec in 3s during 5.2. In any case, go back a page and let me know if you agree with my previous post on why destro is in trouble as long as CB stays in its current form.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quick question though since I have sadly not played in a little while. Was that 25% nerf to CB not supposed to be offset by it finally not double dipping from resilience? As in, they finally fixed double dipping and decided to nerf it after to make it not OP in PvP.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As for your other question, the KJC nerf on top of the MF nerf seem to have thoroughly killed any of my dreams of destro being viable at all in either RBGs or arenas. Without MF affecting F&B and being always on we're already losing most of our RBG damage. When I ran RBGs without MF cause I accidentally forgot to swap back after a temple match my overall damage went from an average of 18-22 million to 12-14 million. The difference in destro's effectiveness in RBGs without MF is rather disgusting and that's with running old KJC. With KJC and MF being so neutered in 5.4, I don't see destro getting any kind of a spot in RBGs.

    As for arenas, the only reason destro was 2.2k viable was KJC. As soon as it was changed to not increase cast time anymore, destro started being a viable spec. Especially running with a mage and boomkin, being able to run away a few extra feet meant i could safely get those CBs off while the enemy was rooted. Even without those classes, snaring a rogue with conglag then starting CB while strafing away meant i could usually get it off. Without KJC I'm just stuck in place for the entirety of CB, which often times ends up being 2+seconds thanks to all the cast time increases in game.

    So, they need to change CB or we'll be useless. If they don't want us running away while casting, we need an increase to our defenses so we can at least survive for 10 seconds while tanking a DK and trying to juke so we can get a CB off.
    Last edited by Kildragon; 2013-07-22 at 05:31 PM.

  5. #1965
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    The highest rated warlock team on tich during 5.2 was fire/destro mls. Pre 5.2 you saw very few warlocks on the ladders since we sucked so I won't even go into that. During 5.2 though, destro was king for warlock PvP in both arenas and RBGs. RBGs being a joke is only an opinion anyways, and there are plenty of people that do them seriously. Right nowv on live, you can play as both destro and affliction and do well (2.2k+) so destro isn't too bad. I mainly meant the play style anyways, seeing how it resembles wrath destro more than anything.

    You also can't claim that most high rated players preferred cata destro over mop. Do you have any data at all? Didn't think so. I just know that so far in mop, destro has been the spec most played for both RBGs and arenas. What did it look like in cata? That's right, 99% played affliction while only a few dedicated locks stayed destro and out of those I don't think i saw now than one get gladiator. Cata destro was a ton of fun in pve, and this is coming from someone that had top 10 logs for most fights in DS. In pvp however the spec was a nightmare, having no dispel protection but needing corruption, immolate, doom and shadow flame for max damage. ISF was a pile of shit in PvP. None of our abilities hit for much since our damage was distributed between 9 damage sources. So no, unless you're talking about the 5 locks that stuck with destro and made it over 2k, you're wrong.

    Now back to current destro. Less buttons? yes. Less micro management? yes. Easy? no. The difference between a good warlock and a bad one is enormous and timing is more important than anything right now. Can you pown noobs at 1700 rating as destro without much skill? sure. But as soon as you hit 1900-2k where people know how to counter bad locks you need to be skilled. Same goes for RBGs.

    Lastly, demo can do some dumb damage in RBGs and I've played with a few great ones at 2300 mmr.
    .
    The rank 1 team being fire mage/Destro has literally no value in this conversation, most of that rating was because fire mage was broken that patch with triple pyro's and destro's chaosbolt had not been nerfed and nobody had 65% base resill/PvP power had not been nerfed. As for you saying their were no warlocks on the ladder pre 5.2 their were TONS of warlocks on the ladders, all of them were demo because chaos wave was OP. During 5.2 Destro was good yes, almost OP even. But now? Now its a complete joke, why would you play destro in ANY comp (aside from MLS) when affy is much more viable? But im not debating 5.2, im saying right THIS moment in 5.3 destro is a joke at higher ratings. Yeah sure you might win against spell cleaves or the like but any cleave (which is most of the ladder these days) you will not do well. Hell even top locks like Azael or Nadagastt have tried to play destro on Tich and just gave up after awhile, their is literally no point in playing it over aff atm.

    Also what I meant to say was I didnt like so much the damage of cata destro, but the play style is what I liked, if they had just buffed the damage and kept the play style me and other locks I know would have been happy. It wasn't just about spamming chaos bolts which is currently what destro is all about now. Also I was one of those "locks that hit 2k as destro in cata", like I said it required skill not everyone could do it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Schirm View Post
    There was no such thing as a high rated Destro Lock in Cata. Any 2200+ PvPer knows Affy was the only way to go.

    Your post made me lol.

    Ummm you know Maldiva and various other locks got glad with destro during cata right........

    Stop posting plz, thx.
    Last edited by icecoldsir; 2013-07-22 at 05:39 PM.

  6. #1966
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    As much as I agree with you on cata demo not being fun, the rest of your post just pisses me off.

    All three specs were more than viable during different fights in T11. Affliction and demo were both viable and competitive and I even kept up as destro. During DS all three specs were viable. I ran with Pillow Fort (us #11 10 man) during the end of DS and not only did I keep up with every single dps as destro, I ranked on just about every fight and NEVER felt like I hadn't 100% earned my spot.

    So please, knock it off with the ignorant comments.
    Sorry, but no. I played destro in DS aswell, I ranked as destro in DS as well and the numbers where no where near the numbers demo could pull, not to mention it was very easy to rank as the spec because the class was not represented worth shit in cataclysm and if you had the slight capability to get decent gear and press your buttons the ranks would come.

    Also, seeing as how the highest dps of all 3 specs by far (usually 10-15k dps ahead of destro, 5-10k ahead of affliction) was demonology (feel free to go through all of the boss logs) you could only rank above 50 if you had the mastery set, which should never even be a thing. I guess the only exception would be warmaster as demo burst was not great and maybe both DW encounters because of adds you could cheese from.

  7. #1967
    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    The rank 1 team being fire mage/Destro has literally no value in this conversation, most of that rating was because fire mage was broken that patch with triple pyro's and destro's chaosbolt had not been nerfed and nobody had 65% base resill/PvP power had not been nerfed. As for you saying their were no warlocks on the ladder pre 5.2 their were TONS of warlocks on the ladders, all of them were demo because chaos wave was OP. During 5.2 Destro was good yes, almost OP even. But now? Now its a complete joke, why would you play destro in ANY comp (aside from MLS) when affy is much more viable? But im not debating 5.2, im saying right THIS moment in 5.3 destro is a joke at higher ratings. Yeah sure you might win against spell cleaves or the like but any cleave (which is most of the ladder these days) you will not do well. Hell even top locks like Azael or Nadagastt have tried to play destro on Tich and just gave up after awhile, their is literally no point in playing it over aff atm.

    Also what I meant to say was I didnt like so much the damage of cata destro, but the play style is what I liked, if they had just buffed the damage and kept the play style me and other locks I know would have been happy. It wasn't just about spamming chaos bolts which is currently what destro is all about now. Also I was one of those "locks that hit 2k as destro in cata", like I said it required skill not everyone could do it.






    Ummm you know Maldiva and various other locks got glad with destro during cata right........

    Stop posting plz, thx.
    3 Locks got Glad playing a bad spec, must have been amazing.

    We all know it was a joke spec in Cata. cy@

  8. #1968
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    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    The rank 1 team being fire mage/Destro has literally no value in this conversation, most of that rating was because fire mage was broken that patch with triple pyro's and destro's chaosbolt had not been nerfed and nobody had 65% base resill/PvP power had not been nerfed. As for you saying their were no warlocks on the ladder pre 5.2 their were TONS of warlocks on the ladders, all of them were demo because chaos wave was OP. During 5.2 Destro was good yes, almost OP even. But now? Now its a complete joke, why would you play destro in ANY comp (aside from MLS) when affy is much more viable? But im not debating 5.2, im saying right THIS moment in 5.3 destro is a joke at higher ratings. Yeah sure you might win against spell cleaves or the like but any cleave (which is most of the ladder these days) you will not do well. Hell even top locks like Azael or Nadagastt have tried to play destro on Tich and just gave up after awhile, their is literally no point in playing it over aff atm.

    Also what I meant to say was I didnt like so much the damage of cata destro, but the play style is what I liked, if they had just buffed the damage and kept the play style me and other locks I know would have been happy. It wasn't just about spamming chaos bolts which is currently what destro is all about now. Also I was one of those "locks that hit 2k as destro in cata", like I said it required skill not everyone could do it.






    Ummm you know Maldiva and various other locks got glad with destro during cata right........

    Stop posting plz, thx.
    As I said in my post earlier on this page, disregard my bringing up 5.2. I was simply responding to the statement that destro hasn't been played or was viable in MoP, which it has/was. It was just sadly not viable until the KJC buff and is now not viable anymore. Essentially destro had a great patch in 5.2.

    And you are correct in that Demo was dominating the ladders during early 5.0 but you have to remember that CW was nerfed into the ground via hotfix before even 5.1 hit. After that, warlocks were mostly absent from the top 50 ladders since our best spec was destro pre KJC buff.

    Now for the playstyle part, you won't have to argue with me that cata destro was amazingly fun. I mainly played it in PvE, but I dabbled in PvP and while it was fun, it was in essentially the same spot it's in now. If you were a great lock and you worked hard enough you could make it work as destro, but affliction was just so much better.

    There were a few issues in cata: our hard hitting spells, CB, incin and conflag hit for next to nothing. Destro was balanced around ISF uptime at close to 100%, while you were lucky to get 40% uptime in pvp. If you wanted to play with ISF at all you had to spec for improved imp and use the little shit for instant procs. If you played without isf and your imp you had to gimp your damage. You relied on 4 DoTs for max damage, yet had 0 dispel protection. Without immolate on your target you might as well have been shooting bunnies. Essentially a fun spec that had its mechanics work against it in PvP.

    Now we're on the other side of the spectrum. We went from 9 damage sources and needing to keep up ISF + immolate at all times to having 4 damage sources out of which we ignore immolate so it's more like 3. They need to find a medium that works.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    Sorry, but no. I played destro in DS aswell, I ranked as destro in DS as well and the numbers where no where near the numbers demo could pull, not to mention it was very easy to rank as the spec because the class was not represented worth shit in cataclysm and if you had the slight capability to get decent gear and press your buttons the ranks would come.

    Also, seeing as how the highest dps of all 3 specs by far (usually 10-15k dps ahead of destro, 5-10k ahead of affliction) was demonology (feel free to go through all of the boss logs) you could only rank above 50 if you had the mastery set, which should never even be a thing. I guess the only exception would be warmaster as demo burst was not great and maybe both DW encounters because of adds you could cheese from.
    I'm not talking about ranking a #120. I'm talking about top 10 ranks. And I'm talking about keeping up with the highest dps 10 man guild in the us. No other guild pulled the numbers we did or killed bosses faster, so I wasn't simply better than they were either. I simply knew how to push the most out of destro. See, demo has the highest theoretical dps, but a slight change in how you killed the boss or a differently timed kill ruined your dps. On hagara for example we did the phases so fast that I only got one meta in before she died. Other times I would get ice block during meta. Demo worked well if everything went your way but for people like me that mastered destro, the spec was far more versatile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I just pulled up the epeen bot actually and my memory serves me right. I was basically even with our raid on all fights except for a few were certain classes were obviously OP. Our raid comp included a combat rogue, fire Mage, arms warrior, ele shaman who was MS resto, boomkin who was swapping from resto and myself as dps. Here's an ultraxion log but feel free to go through the rest.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6ev7r2cdvljkyx1y/sum/damageDone/?s=2477&e=2663
    Spine obviously didn't count and madness came down to cheesing the buff so I never gave a shit about those 2.

  9. #1969
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    I just pulled up the epeen bot actually and my memory serves me right. I was basically even with our raid on all fights except for a few were certain classes were obviously OP. Our raid comp included a combat rogue, fire Mage, arms warrior, ele shaman who was MS resto, boomkin who was swapping from resto and myself as dps. Here's an ultraxion log but feel free to go through the rest.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6ev7r...?s=2477&e=2663
    Spine obviously didn't count and madness came down to cheesing the buff so I never gave a shit about those 2.
    You being good in your raid has no real value, we don't know if your mates were any good
    I played Destro during all of DS and I remember it being rather good but Aff/Demo were eventually better on most encounters iirc. Destro felt behind with more gear, exactly like in T14 and T15... and T16 ? (yes this is a transition back to topic )
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2013-07-22 at 07:20 PM.
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  10. #1970
    Just a quick side note on Destro PvP - yes, the MoP design is infinitely better than the cata design (anything is better than the cata destro design), but it's still pretty mediocre. Give me the LK (or vanilla if we're going to the way back machine) pvp design any day: Set-up an immo, cast a nuke (short cast CB in the LK world, sbolt in vanilla), follow with another short cast spell (searing pain or backlash proc) and land a monster Conflag for awesome burst combos that took manageable set-up, skill and casting to execute. You could do that combo once every 15-20 seconds, but it took a good amount of coordination to pull off. When you landed it, you were well on your way to helping create kill windows. Was very fun.

    We have that today - it's called an Elle shamie (FS, unleash, Elemental blast, lavaburst only add in RNG machinegun WTF procs). The same is true of Frost and Shadow to an extent about using CD spells and/or resources to combo people. That's a much better design for destro pvp,and it's something I hope we get back to instead of the current Chaosbolt crap (long/preventable cast for mediocre damage).

  11. #1971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    I'm not talking about ranking a #120. I'm talking about top 10 ranks. And I'm talking about keeping up with the highest dps 10 man guild in the us. No other guild pulled the numbers we did or killed bosses faster, so I wasn't simply better than they were either. I simply knew how to push the most out of destro. See, demo has the highest theoretical dps, but a slight change in how you killed the boss or a differently timed kill ruined your dps. On hagara for example we did the phases so fast that I only got one meta in before she died. Other times I would get ice block during meta. Demo worked well if everything went your way but for people like me that mastered destro, the spec was far more versatile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I just pulled up the epeen bot actually and my memory serves me right. I was basically even with our raid on all fights except for a few were certain classes were obviously OP. Our raid comp included a combat rogue, fire Mage, arms warrior, ele shaman who was MS resto, boomkin who was swapping from resto and myself as dps. Here's an ultraxion log but feel free to go through the rest.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6ev7r...?s=2477&e=2663
    Spine obviously didn't count and madness came down to cheesing the buff so I never gave a shit about those 2.
    :\
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/to336...?s=2949&e=3099
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/v7b5x...?s=2575&e=2668
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/v7b5x...?s=3005&e=3169
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bz...?s=1415&e=1565

    Only logs I have back from DS.
    Last edited by sasofrass; 2013-07-22 at 07:30 PM.

  12. #1972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    You being good in your raid has no real value, we don't know if your mates were any good
    I played Destro during all of DS and I remember it being rather good but Aff/Demo were eventually better on most encounters iirc. Destro felt behind with more gear, exactly like in T14 and T15... and T16 ? (yes this is a transition back to topic )
    Oh I completely agree. Demo was miles ahead if you had the proper gear which included a second mastery set. And even affliction pulled ahead a bit later on. I was never saying that destro was the best spec for us. I just can't stand people that spout nonsense like "warlocks were so garbage in cata you only brought them for the 10% SP buff (which btw, thank God the days of going demo just for that are over)" not only were we competitive, our lowest dps spec had no issues competing in a high level raid environment. So I just can't stand people that spread lies. Warlocks have been awesome in PvE ever since I can remember.

    But yes, back on topic. Imo destro is lagging cause blizz is afraid to buff us. With only 4 damage sources, it could be very easy for destro to become OP in pvp with damage buffs. Plus CB isn't helping. Please go to the previous page for my post on why the current CB creates nothing but problems for us.

  13. #1973
    What are they giving destro locks in return for the nerf on ember regen from Rain of Fire?

  14. #1974
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    Man I wanna slap you right now lol. First you tell me that we sucked during DS then you link me a bunch of logs with you topping the meters. Why make me argue this out?

  15. #1975
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumaw View Post
    What are they giving destro locks in return for the nerf on ember regen from Rain of Fire?
    Nothing yet, but I expect tweaks. I'm too lazy to look up the tweets, but bliz made 2 comments that I'll try to paraphrase...

    "[We will compensate Destro ember gen if we remove RoF from single target]" - GC a monthish back.

    "[We're not at the point on the 5.4 PTR yet where we can tune numbers]" - I forget who, but it says that a dmg pass is still forthcoming.

  16. #1976
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumaw View Post
    What are they giving destro locks in return for the nerf on ember regen from Rain of Fire?
    ATM nothing. They haven't stated or put into practice any buffs for Destro yet. (But they did already nerf RoF making Destro kinda crap for all this awesome raid testing. Woooo)

  17. #1977
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Just a quick side note on Destro PvP - yes, the MoP design is infinitely better than the cata design (anything is better than the cata destro design), but it's still pretty mediocre. Give me the LK (or vanilla if we're going to the way back machine) pvp design any day: Set-up an immo, cast a nuke (short cast CB in the LK world, sbolt in vanilla), follow with another short cast spell (searing pain or backlash proc) and land a monster Conflag for awesome burst combos that took manageable set-up, skill and casting to execute. You could do that combo once every 15-20 seconds, but it took a good amount of coordination to pull off. When you landed it, you were well on your way to helping create kill windows. Was very fun.

    We have that today - it's called an Elle shamie (FS, unleash, Elemental blast, lavaburst only add in RNG machinegun WTF procs). The same is true of Frost and Shadow to an extent about using CD spells and/or resources to combo people. That's a much better design for destro pvp,and it's something I hope we get back to instead of the current Chaosbolt crap (long/preventable cast for mediocre damage).
    Either change CB to not always crit and give us a proc for instant chaos bolts to compensate or increase ember gain by 25% and keep CB damage where it is since it already got nerfed by 25%.

  18. #1978
    Stood in the Fire sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    Either change CB to not always crit and give us a proc for instant chaos bolts to compensate or increase ember gain by 25% and keep CB damage where it is since it already got nerfed by 25%.
    To compensate the loss of embers from RoF, couldn't they just make immolate give you 1 ember per tick and 2 per crit?

    Also for CB, what if they made each stack of backdraft you have reduce the cast time of CB by, say, 10-15% per stack? Would allow decent burst, double conflag then near instant CB.

  19. #1979
    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    The rank 1 team being fire mage/Destro has literally no value in this conversation, most of that rating was because fire mage was broken that patch with triple pyro's and destro's chaosbolt had not been nerfed and nobody had 65% base resill/PvP power had not been nerfed. As for you saying their were no warlocks on the ladder pre 5.2 their were TONS of warlocks on the ladders, all of them were demo because chaos wave was OP. During 5.2 Destro was good yes, almost OP even. But now? Now its a complete joke, why would you play destro in ANY comp (aside from MLS) when affy is much more viable? But im not debating 5.2, im saying right THIS moment in 5.3 destro is a joke at higher ratings. Yeah sure you might win against spell cleaves or the like but any cleave (which is most of the ladder these days) you will not do well. Hell even top locks like Azael or Nadagastt have tried to play destro on Tich and just gave up after awhile, their is literally no point in playing it over aff atm.

    Also what I meant to say was I didnt like so much the damage of cata destro, but the play style is what I liked, if they had just buffed the damage and kept the play style me and other locks I know would have been happy. It wasn't just about spamming chaos bolts which is currently what destro is all about now. Also I was one of those "locks that hit 2k as destro in cata", like I said it required skill not everyone could do it.






    Ummm you know Maldiva and various other locks got glad with destro during cata right........

    Stop posting plz, thx.
    Stop posting...??

    Okay.. Since you're not a moderator you cannot say this.

    And that person you were replying to is correct. Warlocks had one viable spec in Cataclysm, and that was affliction.

    You must not remember or just didnt play in cataclysm. Why do you think the Devs revamped Destro and Demo more than Affliction?

    - - - Updated - - -

    @ Kil.. Destro is still viable in 5.4...

  20. #1980
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Yet they strive to lose the widest playerbase- those who are locks due to KJC.
    No, the widest playerbase are the other classes who QQ about warlocks to be to OP

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