View Poll Results: Do you think Bliz will actually nerf KJC?

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  • Yes

    576 74.32%
  • No

    199 25.68%
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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    BIG update, source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=111#2202

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Got a few updates for you guys. Standard disclaimer applies that this is all still in early testing and subject to change.

    Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.

    Looking specifically at Affliction, we're lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving that damage over into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. We still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.

    There's been a couple adjustments to the level 90 talents as well. Both Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroth's Fury have had their cooldowns and durations lowered to 60 and 10 seconds, respectively. Mannoroth's Fury now only applies to the core AoE damage spells (Seed of Corruption, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire), but increases their damage by 100% while active in addition to the range increase. Note that Rain of Fire is being changed to no longer generate enough Burning Embers to be worth using in a single target rotation (so, Destruction shouldn't feel forced into Mannoroth's Fury).

    These should hopefully be hitting the PTR in the next build. Once again, please remember that we're very early in the 5.4 development process. Any or all of this may still change before the patch goes live.
    This isn't the answer. Fel flame is there for when we are school locked, this will lock both on interupt. It also sucks for Demo and Destro.

  2. #662
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

    Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.

  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

    Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.
    A panda monk calling others FOTM rerollers? You sir made my day
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  4. #664
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    A panda monk calling others FOTM rerollers? You sir made my day
    First time I've ever rerolled my main (rogue for 5 years). Guild needed a tank, genuinely enjoyed monks from beta.

    I meant those twats who play a Rogue one patch, Warlock the next, Priest another and Mage the next, and whose voices drown out all sensibility any time an overpowered feature of a class gets brought in line every patch.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    First time I've ever rerolled my main (rogue for 5 years). Guild needed a tank, genuinely enjoyed monks from beta.

    I meant those twats who play a Rogue one patch, Warlock the next, Priest another and Mage the next, and whose voices drown out all sensibility any time an overpowered feature of a class gets brought in line every patch.
    We don't care about your story you made your point, bye now! Thanks.
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  6. #666
    Stood in the Fire WarlockJack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

    Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.
    I've played a warlock since beta, so I honestly don't care if we lose the ability to cast and move... I've spent most my time NOT moving. However, for affliction... its a game breaker in pvp because of how we've been built. The fact that we now HAVE to channel to do the appropriate amount of damage means we've now become dysfunctional; especially in LoS issues where we can't chase people.

    Other classes aren't affected as badly because they don't have a channeled filler that boosts their main source of damage up in line to where it needs to be.

    Truthfully, the cleanest way I can see to fix this is just delete malefic grasp and replace it with a nuke or change it so it doesn't affect our dots. The awkward part of that is then our dots would probably be permanently under or overpowered.

  7. #667
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarlockJack View Post
    I've played a warlock since beta, so I honestly don't care if we lose the ability to cast and move... I've spent most my time NOT moving. However, for affliction... its a game breaker in pvp because of how we've been built. The fact that we now HAVE to channel to do the appropriate amount of damage means we've now become dysfunctional; especially in LoS issues where we can't chase people.

    Other classes aren't affected as badly because they don't have a channeled filler that boosts their main source of damage up in line to where it needs to be.

    Truthfully, the cleanest way I can see to fix this is just delete malefic grasp and replace it with a nuke or change it so it doesn't affect our dots. The awkward part of that is then our dots would probably be permanently under or overpowered.
    Good thing you have two other specs to play, right?

    The "only one spec is good for PVP" system has worked fine for Rogues, Hunters, Mages, Warriors and Shaman (and that's just off the top of my head) all expansion.

    Imo 6.0 is more the time for a major revamp like you're describing, and I have no idea how KJC went live in the state that it is, it's a pretty silly ability for a talent. Totally invalidates the rest of the tier.

  8. #668
    I am sorry if this has already been said since I didn't bother to read all the pages but why don't they just make the filler spells be able to be used while casting with KJC? Would make sense to me if it was like that. Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents

  9. #669
    Bloodsail Admiral The Penguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

    Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.

    Unless you have something meaningful that adds to the conversation, please refrain from posting this kind of stuff. This sort of talk does nothing to help the situation, but does help significantly in derailing topics and turning them into a flame-war.

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    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-06-18 at 07:49 AM.

  10. #670
    the argument that no caster should be able to cast and move may sound logical and fair on a general level
    However, if you understand affliction spec, you realize that removing KJC at its current state and leaving rest of Affliction unchanged will actually make Affliction unplayable and broken.

    If Blizz wants to change KJC mechanics, thats fine, However they need to revamp the affliction spec altogether in terms of DOT damage numbers, Fel Flame Mechanics, haunt mechanic and Shard procs.

    Bottom line is, if they want to increase the skill cap of affliction by tweaking KJC, that's fine. As long as the rest of the Aff spec is re-balanced as well so that a good player can still pump out decent DPS.
    What wont be fine, is if they change KJC alone and end up breaking affliction completely.

  11. #671
    Herald of the Titans Packers01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViridianCC View Post
    Snicker snicker the Warlock tears for the last week have been fantastic. All the FOTM rerollers changing to Warlocks because they've been ludicrous in PVE and PVP all expansion crying because they're being brought down in line with all the other classes who have no or minimal ability to cast on the move (moonkin, mage, shadow priest).

    Hopefully they remove the "always able to cast while moving" on lightning bolt as well and give Melee back the niche of being useful mobile DPS.
    Im not sure if you could be more wrong. Please feel free to show us locl representation in arena and PVE dps logs. KJC is not why demo warlocks are doing so well, its UVLS. Of course from your post I doubt you care about that.

  12. #672
    This change is even worst than I thought it would be.

  13. #673
    I certainly hope they don't

    I never really cared for, and still don't like this new talent system, I felt that KJC was very fun and usefull, it actually made the other horrible changes they made to warlocks bearable

  14. #674
    Reading through this again, I am exasperated by it.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Got a few updates for you guys. Standard disclaimer applies that this is all still in early testing and subject to change.

    Fel Flame has gotten a slight rework. It now has a 1.5 second cast time, but can always be cast while moving. Also, it no longer extends the duration of damage over time effects (and, as such, no longer causes them to lose their "snapshotted" stats) and has gotten a small damage buff. The intent here is that you should be able to use this to keep up some damage when you need to move, but you'll want to stick to your standard rotation otherwise.
    As I noted earlier, this is a nerf to PvP exposing us further to interupts and worse, double school lockout. It's also a nerf to Destruction and Demonology where DoT maintenance for their resource generation overides their damage.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Looking specifically at Affliction, we're lowering the bonus damage that Malefic Grasp provides and moving that damage over into Haunt and the DoT effects themselves to compensate. We still want Malefic Grasp to be your primary filler for single target DPS, but this will make it a bit less punishing when you can't afford to channel it (especially in PvP). Haunt will once again be interrupted by movement, in favor of the Fel Flame change.
    It's obvious the damage from Aff is down to the synergy between Haunt and MG, buffing Haunt wont really make all that much difference. Further, buffing DoTs on the back of having Corruption nerfed due to overstrong multidotting seems like a backward step.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    There's been a couple adjustments to the level 90 talents as well. Both Kil'Jaeden's Cunning and Mannoroth's Fury have had their cooldowns and durations lowered to 60 and 10 seconds, respectively. Mannoroth's Fury now only applies to the core AoE damage spells (Seed of Corruption, Hellfire, Immolation Aura, and Rain of Fire), but increases their damage by 100% while active in addition to the range increase. Note that Rain of Fire is being changed to no longer generate enough Burning Embers to be worth using in a single target rotation (so, Destruction shouldn't feel forced into Mannoroth's Fury).

    These should hopefully be hitting the PTR in the next build. Once again, please remember that we're very early in the 5.4 development process. Any or all of this may still change before the patch goes live.
    Mannoroth's Fury is also necessary for Demonology when you can't actually get close to AoE; it's the reason we kept Hellfire when they were considering switching to RoF. As for MF and Destruction's single target rotation is absurd, it makes no difference there, but we'll still use it the moment a second target wanders into range. Selling it as a QoL improvement is a little disingenuous.

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacomus View Post
    I am sorry if this has already been said since I didn't bother to read all the pages but why don't they just make the filler spells be able to be used while casting with KJC? Would make sense to me if it was like that. Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents
    Multiple times.

    It looks too easy and, reasonable to be done.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorthan View Post
    Multiple times.

    It looks too easy and, reasonable to be done.
    That might make KJC a bit useless comparing to MF in PvE.
    Integrity is doing the right thing, even when no one is watching.

  17. #677
    From the affliction thread, appropriate here as well

    So let me see if I understand this correctly...

    Fel flame is now a 2-school scorch (double lockout on interrupt? another spell with cast time for destruction? How does this affect void ray?)
    Fel flame has a cast time of 1.5 seconds and can be casted while moving (was instant with 1.5s gcd, now interruptable and has cast/flight time)
    Fel flame DoT extension is removed. This means proc refreshes after a pandemic refresh will cost us 3 gcd's instead of 2 for affliction.
    Fel flame damage will be buffed, but the amount of damage will not sway you away from your spec's filler.
    DoT damage receiving a compensation increase. DoT damage was previously reduced to balance multi-target cleaving, so either the compensation isn't very much or it will eventually be reduced once the patch goes live.
    Malefic grasp damage reduced and redistributed into Haunt/DoTs. Will Drain soul follow with the same redistribution and will GoSac be balanced to compensate for the damage loss to MG?
    Haunt's damage compensation won't be enough to make up for the loss in Haunt+MG uptime.
    Haunt not castable while moving just means you can't move for the next 9.5 seconds or your damage tanks.
    The 10/60 change for KJC/MF is a change to balance cooldowns with raid mechanics. Its still terrible.
    MF now affects fewer spells (doesnt include HoG, Chaos Wave, Carrion Swarm, Void Ray, FnB) and there is no way the 100% damage increase makes it to live (RoF and Hellfire/IAura DPET makes them part of the single target rotation).
    Nothing yet on ember compensation for the RoF nerf.
    Nothing yet on UVLS being inevitably nerfed.
    Nothing yet on shifting soul shard use from soulburn soul swap to something else
    Nothing yet on a fix for Agony soul swap snapshot.
    Nothing on nerf to Soul Leech capping at 30% hp on the PTR (bug perhaps?)
    I'm still not using Archimonde's Vengeance, which goes against blizzard philosophy of taking damage to do damage...

    I personally have no confidence in my class at the moment. I've played my lock since vanilla, from the glory days of SL/SL to the dark days of "Global the warlock". KJC was one of the greatest quality of life changes blizzard made to this class since they removed soul shard farming (hopefully they don't read this and get an idea), and casted movement will be missed. Just a reminder though:

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @johnlvarner Knowing game rules is critical for PvP. Asking players to learn new rules (run from the dying lock!) in mid-season is harsh.
    #Xelnath2013!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Fanatik; 2013-06-18 at 10:00 AM.

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It's obvious the damage from Aff is down to the synergy between Haunt and MG, buffing Haunt wont really make all that much difference. Further, buffing DoTs on the back of having Corruption nerfed due to overstrong multidotting seems like a backward step.
    The real punchline is that buffing haunt is counterproductive - the more damage tied into haunt, the more we NEED to be rooted after casting a haunt, since that's where our damage comes from, ergo, the more being unable to channel MG if forced to move is a problem.

    Trying to sell us it as part of the post trying to compensate for KJC is just misleading, it's essentially still MG damage, just only available during haunt uptimes - the damage moved to dots is all we've gained while mobile.

    For the people worried about the ROF removal, you (hopefully) don't need to worry - it was announced that they were planning it ages ago, at the time they said they'd be compensating ember generation to remain the same, they just wanted ROF out of the single target rotation since it was unintuitive (though I personally feel the rotation without ROF is too empty).

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    The real punchline is that buffing haunt is counterproductive - the more damage tied into haunt, the more we NEED to be rooted after casting a haunt, since that's where our damage comes from, ergo, the more being unable to channel MG if forced to move is a problem.

    Trying to sell us it as part of the post trying to compensate for KJC is just misleading, it's essentially still MG damage, just only available during haunt uptimes - the damage moved to dots is all we've gained while mobile.

    For the people worried about the ROF removal, you (hopefully) don't need to worry - it was announced that they were planning it ages ago, at the time they said they'd be compensating ember generation to remain the same, they just wanted ROF out of the single target rotation since it was unintuitive (though I personally feel the rotation without ROF is too empty).
    The idea of more damage while stationary to offset loss during movement is basically what Mage T90 talents are about, it's not necessarily a bad thing so long as it genuinely translates to that.

    Trying to sell the utility nerf of Fel Flame as a compensatory buff though is rather annoying. It would be hilarious though if their answer to fix my above concerns would result in the reimplimentation of Searing Pain replacing FF for Affliction

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Trying to sell the utility nerf of Fel Flame as a compensatory buff though is rather annoying. It would be hilarious though if their answer to fix my above concerns would result in the reimplimentation of Searing Pain replacing FF for Affliction
    Only to be reverted once mages complain that we have a bonus 50% crit chance on our scorch. Come 5.5, we'll be hearing how 50% crit was unintended and they completely scrap fel flame and searing pain and return us back to stutter stepping, shadow bolt, and shadow trance for all specs!

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