5.4 KJC changes.

[Morothemic]

This is a necessary change that should have been done a while ago.

I agree it's been a little game breaking. However, I think the change should of been with 6.0, not right before the end expansion raid. Blizzard has been okay with it happening for about 2/3 of an expansion and now suddenly it's an issue? Just frustrating but we'll see how things turn out.

[EvreliaGaming]

Hey Evrelia. Do you think this change will go live? If so how bad a place will affliction be in? People seem to listen to your opinion more then mine lol.

It seems to have been captured mostly throughout the thread. They said they thought casting Lightning Bolt whilst moving wasn't a balance problem, but KJC might be. Then again, they also said they'd rather buff melee than nerf our movement tools, so that's a little contradictory.

Warlocks right now are too strong in raids. We take too little damage, we offer a lot of utlity, and we do a lot of damage. Next patch they've removed our passive damage mitigation, which was expected. I did not expect them to nerf KJC this hard in combination with that.

Here are my issues with nerfing the talent:

1) It makes it very likely we'll be playing Demo next tier. Given that Demo is already simming as our highest turret spec, it offers considerable burst, extremely potent burst AoE and very high mobility as baseline. In combination with UVLS its multi-target potential trumps any other class, and it can maintain close to 100% meta uptime allowing you to suffer no penalty from movement at all.

2) Affliction has no other suitable movement tools. Scorch and Lightning Bolt might not be super amazing DPS for elemental shamans, but the mechanics of Fel Flame mean that using it during periods of movement might actually be worse than not using it at all. If your trinkets have just procced and your dots are all updated, the last thing you want to do is use Fel Flame and make your dots 60% weaker.

3) Destruction is extremely penalized by this and is already significantly behind on any fight where it can't abuse RoF on multiple targets. Not to mention that casting Fel Flame and RoF during movement is not very exciting.

4) The slow makes the talent balanced. Ever tried playing with KJC on Blade Lord Tayak? If you're channeling before he does his suck-in ability, you're gonna have two stacks of KJC immediately, and as you try to run out, you're not going to make it. Got a two stack snare when trying to run from Thunderstruck? Better hope you have Burning Rush and a big Soul Leech shield or that's gonna hurt. Attenuation, Downdraft (although Portal + Gateway makes that easy enough). I'm sure there are others. It wasn't really a huge deal thanks to Burning Rush, but it does usually mean you have to react a lot more quickly than other classes to not get hit by mechanics.

In 5.1 when they changed KJC to the state it currently is on on live, it made Affliction overpowered. Affliction was already a very high dps turret spec and the ability to maintain that dps with no penalty whilst moving meant we were extremely strong on many encounters. So they kept the talent as it was and nerfed our damage by nerfing GoSac. Removing KJC too is pretty harsh.

Now, there are some good elements to it. I do think movement should be punishing to all casters, and I think a lot of our dps will be maintainable by having to simply think about how often we move - life tapping during movement, etc. I do think we need something that can be cast during movement that won't weaken our dps (as opposed to casting nothing at all). I'll be glad not to have to deal with that snare anymore. I honestly would prefer they just brought back the cast speed penalty. At least then we can choose to cast whilst moving, we are penalized by movement, and we have to think about when to actually move and when not to. Being able to execute your perfect rotation during movement should be an added challenge.

Also, let's take a moment here to lament Mannoroth's Fury, which was already suffering from its previous nerf.

[warlockSTAR]

I don't really see what they can do by making up that huge dps from removing KJC besides buff our dots but they are pretty powerful already, Well for PVE anyways.

[darkminaz]

mf is dead
kjc will be useless .. lets all jump und the demololtrain ..
and our 5% dmg back talent sadly won't work on most boss spells

i'd be fine with a you loose 5% haste (similar to the shaman glyph) for 10sec after casting while moving. or something like that (the haste in your feed slows your brain .. meh)

[ripponesan]

All I saw was

Patch Notes:

Warlocks fun factor nerfed by 700%

While this might be true, you gotta admit that your fun was built on the others tears.

[Leonofhyjal]

While this might be true, you gotta admit that your fun was built on the others tears.

Not so much tears as crazy amounts of qq and blizzards lack of design on all the other casters lol.

[Gohzerlock]

mf is dead
kjc will be useless .. lets all jump und the demololtrain ..
and our 5% dmg back talent sadly won't work on most boss spells

i'd be fine with a you loose 5% haste (similar to the shaman glyph) for 10sec after casting while moving. or something like that (the haste in your feed slows your brain .. meh)

Seriously who is gonna use mannorth's fury now? I feel like we've gone through this all... you know like in 5.1 when kjc was a cd and no one took it? The only thing good about kjc news is that it ushers in the possibility they'll buff dots enough so that we won't be so reliant on MG channel. Still, my personal opinion is still that all casters should have good mobility and that kjc nerf should've come in the form of most other casters can cast filler baseline making KJC less attractive.

[Leonofhyjal]

Sparkuggz quote from 20 minutes ago:

KJC was overpowered, but it was also why warlocks were so good at things. Removing it puts us at a mage level of movement, without blink and without being able to stand in a rune of power and be the top single target DPS! We did need nerfs, but i'd rather see a flat out damage nerf then remove utillity like KJC was. It will make some specs unusable instead of just tuning the damage down to the levels they wish!


The flat damage nerf would be so so so so so much better.

[SpamHealzu]

I was just thinking there could be a slight compromise. Such as how Grimoire of Sac buffs only certain spells do that for KJCs as well

Afflictions w/ KJC's - Allows channeling of MG while on the move. You cant haunt/UA while on the move so it is a slight nerf but still channel effectively
Destro - Allows casting of incinerate while on the move. No casting your big ability (Chaos Bolt), but a much better filler almost how shamans can cast LB while on the move.
Demo - Allows casting shadowbolt while on the move.

This all the while keeping the stacking slow effect. This nerfs us in a way where you cant do 100% of your theoretical dps, but at the same time giving a little mobility where movement doesn't make our dps go to a wet noodle.

[Dristereau]

WHY!? I love this ability for both PVE and PVP. Only play as Destro, and casting whilst moving was beautiful. Never cared for MF much, and is Archimonde's vengeance the other one?

[Deleted]

Well i`magree that talent to be nerfed abit( i also level ma warlock up to max level for first time after all these years)
The talent is too strong as passive and compared to other casters options
But current change is too flat nerf it should be something like 30 sec CD for 15 sec use or just affect only some spells like shamans
Anyway the PTR just starting there is lots of time before patch goes live (i predict 3 months)

[VoodooChyle]

So when warlocks got casting on the move, they gave Eles and Hunters the same feature for LB and SS/CS. Will they be taking thOse away too? My guess is no. Well have fun trying to peel any melee without moving and getting a 3 sec CB off for your burst. They must have really wanted us to go back to Demo!

[Leonofhyjal]

So when warlocks got casting on the move, they gave Eles and Hunters the same feature for LB and SS/CS. Will they be taking thOse away too? My guess is no. Well have fun trying to peel any melee without moving and getting a 3 sec CB off for your burst. They must have really wanted us to go back to Demo!

Yeah I was just thinking that too. Well I guess demo mainspec isn't so bad as far a movement goes. There will probably be a few more nerfs targeted at demonology however.

[Promark]

Sparkuggz quote from 20 minutes ago:

KJC was overpowered, but it was also why warlocks were so good at things. Removing it puts us at a mage level of movement, without blink and without being able to stand in a rune of power and be the top single target DPS! We did need nerfs, but i'd rather see a flat out damage nerf then remove utillity like KJC was. It will make some specs unusable instead of just tuning the damage down to the levels they wish!


The flat damage nerf would be so so so so so much better.

Please don't make it seem that RoP is a blessing, it is not. Warlocks are complaining about now needing to worry about movement and you are praising an ability that puts the caster in a small prison?

[superdooper]

If these changes go live, then the whole talent tier completely sucks. They should just change KJC to a new talent that increases all damage sources by 15% when not moving.

[Leonofhyjal]

Please don't make it seem that RoP is a blessing, it is not. Warlocks are complaining about now needing to worry about movement and you are praising an ability that puts the caster in a small prison?

Hey they aren't my words. And I think he just means to compare warlocks to arcane mages. Not in a bad way or anything though.

[Szarala]

While this might be true, you gotta admit that your fun was built on the others tears.

So instead of bringing other classes in line with evolving gameplay, it's better to regress?

[brirrspliff]

Joke's on them, we don't have an ability called Kil'jaden's Cunning!

In all seriousness I could have sworn they just said they were fine with casters casting on the move....

warlocks != (all) casters. what about shadow priests? what about mages?

ultimatively, i do NOT think it would be a good idea to let casters in general cast on the move. the restriction to not be able to do full dps while constantly moving is (at least to me) a core aspect of the caster-role. it is fun to work with this restriction while being able to do damage from 40 yard range. otherwise we'd just be like melees with the advantage to not have to be in melee-range.

[Banshee Prince]

Just as i was begining to play my warlock again...the green fire questchain will be pretty much impossible now, might aswell quit WoW as warlock is the only class i like at the moment.

[xuros]

Dont see a need for this, the only fights i see locks at the top are council of elders, magera, and Primordious in ToT. Mostly due to multi dotting.

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...f_Thunder/dps/