[5.4] Protection Warrior

[Frozendekay]

Ok thanks. This was clear so far But how does it look with 10 Man content and 25? The Discussion got that far, that they said, Mastery is way better in 25Man Progress than in 10 Man.

Thanks for looking of my gear Good to hear, that it is ok. Like I said, after changing from Mastery back to avoid, I hadn't any Problem tanking Siegebreaker.

I went full avoidance for every 25man boss, no issues whatsoever. Hell, I solo tanked H paragons for 1/2 of the fight a few times when my cotank died and that's considered the scariest fight for tanks this tier. Proper play with avoidance means you should never die.

[Largehorn]

I went full avoidance for every 25man boss, no issues whatsoever. Hell, I solo tanked H paragons for 1/2 of the fight a few times when my cotank died and that's considered the scariest fight for tanks this tier. Proper play with avoidance means you should never die.

I find with my heavier avoidance build, shield barrier (arguably over-usage), T16 2 piece, and the LS trink off jug, that I can go 20-30 seconds of even p3 Garrosh after cds without a healer. I don't know where exactly dps stacks up against tanks that aren't my OT, but I feel the avoidance build is the way to go. Likely a style thing though.

[Deleted]

Ok thanks. This was clear so far But how does it look with 10 Man content and 25? The Discussion got that far, that they said, Mastery is way better in 25Man Progress than in 10 Man.

Thanks for looking of my gear Good to hear, that it is ok. Like I said, after changing from Mastery back to avoid, I hadn't any Problem tanking Siegebreaker.

I would be highly suspect of anyone going for a mastery build in 25 man as honestly I would say it is sub optimal by far. If you play intelligently, with the extra rage you will find you take LESS burst damage that you would have been otherwise unable to absorb with a shield barrier in a less rage generation heavy spec such as mastery

[Boyiee]

Hey guys. My guild is quickly progressing through Normal 10's and we're starting Garrosh this week. We plowed through Klaxxi and Blackfuse in our first hour of attempts on each and starting Garrosh this week. I'm a Warrior tank with a 555 ilevel and have been using a Mastery build since my co-tank is a bear Druid. I've been thinking for Garrosh and onwards to switch back to avoidance. My healers haven't really noticed a difference and do feel that I'm less durable than the druid as it is and a little more challenging to heal, so I was hoping going an avoidance build would help.

[idefiler6]

Hey guys. My guild is quickly progressing through Normal 10's and we're starting Garrosh this week. We plowed through Klaxxi and Blackfuse in our first hour of attempts on each and starting Garrosh this week. I'm a Warrior tank with a 555 ilevel and have been using a Mastery build since my co-tank is a bear Druid. I've been thinking for Garrosh and onwards to switch back to avoidance. My healers haven't really noticed a difference and do feel that I'm less durable than the druid as it is and a little more challenging to heal, so I was hoping going an avoidance build would help.

Do it. You'll like the way you tank, I guarantee it.

[mongoose6]

Forgive my ignorance, but would it be possible to create a macro to equip a two hander for bladestorm on garrosh adds then re-equip sword and board? I have similiar macro's already created for pvp but I'm not sure if it works in pve. I do realize I would lose the ability to block, but properly timed cd's and a barrier should keep me up through it.

[idefiler6]

It should work in PVE AFAIK. Just transcribe the macros to include the 2 hander and the slot, and then one for your sword and board. I know why you want to do this, it sort of makes sense. But what if you want to cancel it mid storm so you can do other things? You need to make the macros around your own ability to think on your feet and make it a compliment to your play, not a detriment.

[Deleted]

Forgive my ignorance, but would it be possible to create a macro to equip a two hander for bladestorm on garrosh adds then re-equip sword and board? I have similiar macro's already created for pvp but I'm not sure if it works in pve. I do realize I would lose the ability to block, but properly timed cd's and a barrier should keep me up through it.

I still have normal 1h but heroic 2h so i did it for a while. The problem is the weapon equip causes a gcd which makes popping bladestorm extremely frustrating at times ontop of no blocking.
The damage gained is also pretty minimal but yeh, its doable if you wanna squeeze out a tiny bit more dps
Its also 160% wep dmg for 1h and 120% for 2h, so you gotta have pretty big disparity for it to be worth the hassle.

[Promdates]

Its also 160% wep dmg for 1h and 120% for 2h, so you gotta have pretty big disparity for it to be worth the hassle.

I think even if you compared 1h heroic vs 2h heroic the 2h still does more, but just slightly. <1% difference though.

[mongoose6]

Okay so since I have a 561 one hander and a 561 two hander, factor in the loss of two GCD's per Bladestorm = not worth it I guess. Oh well, worth a try. Thank you all very much for your input

[Housemdoctor]

I use mastery build, 10 man, we are at our 7/14 hc now, tonight proly 8/14 hc and what I always hear from healers that damage I take is so easy to heal they never have to worry. Anyway I guess u should always choose build u're more comfortable to play with. Because if you worry less and focusing more on boss than on actual tanking rotations that is always the best way to go.

[Pua]

Scumbagging is standing in stuff or taking extra stacks. I don't see any tank who say they scumbag and then proceed to spend all of their rage on Heroic Strike, especially when you get more DPS out of Heavy Repercussions which is basically how tanking works in MoP. Abilities = DPS and survivability, they are not mutually exclusive.

Funnily enough, that's a design flaw I brought up to Ghostcrawler while he was still in post. Warriors had no way to spend rage offensively because Shield block was the more offensive use of rage.

Anyway, scumbagging is "standing in stuff or taking extra stacks" to build more Vengeance than you'd otherwise have. I'm not sure where your Heroic Strike comment is coming from.

I did both of those fights, though I hardly remember them now because they were over 5 years ago and I don't hang on to the past. Regardless, without threat you can now add to your raid team through DPS and the DPS members can now perform to the top of their game. How do you say the role of the tank is unappealing?

I do love veiled insults. Deliberate and shabby attempts to promote arguments.

The answer is quite simple, though: queues.

They're getting worse.

Less people are picking up tanking now because it's always had the problem of responsibility. Tanks have been whipping boys for when things go wrong since time immemorial, and now they're being made more punishing to get into (particularly for today's new player) less and less people are bothering.

99% of the people that have expressed their opinions of it have said that it is in its best spot right now. New tanks will come though the system as they always have. You don't need AM in LFR or Flex and if they want to make the step up to normals and heroics then they will learn like every tank that has come before them has had to learn how to play better.

99% of people in this thread have expressed their opinion that it's better.

Of course, 99% is a guess on your part so let's just say the majority of people in this thread prefer it. That's fine. However, take a look at the armoury of the people making this comment and see how long they've been playing for. Picking up tanking nowadays is far rougher than it was if you started prior to MoP, which the overwhelming majority of guild tanks did.

Let's say 99%?

Well judging by your armory you've never been close to competitive raiding so how would you know anything about the difficulties that come with it?

I did my progression raiding during Cataclysm and got bored of it. I simply have better things to do with my time.

Also, armoury policing rather than picking up the actual debate.

Classy, sir. Classy.

The thing I remember about tanking back in the bc/wotlk days is that it was mostly about positioning the boss and had next to nothing to do with using rotational abilities. And the defensive side was mostly limited to pressing a tank cd once every 3-4 minutes because of that random one shot boss ability whoopdeedoo.

Then you're mis-remembering, and also not bothering to read my posts no more than a page back.

Active mitigation and vengeance scumbagging has made it much more interesting than anything before (Dragon Soul Blood DK , or the flexible feral/bear druid were somewhat interesting as well).

To you.

Not to those with better memories.

The main part here is that you can't say that someone is wrong for having an opinion regarding on open subject such as the level of fun they are having.

Exactly.

Alas, this is the Internet. Extremes are how debates must be had, and anyone that disagrees must be wrong because I am right; there are no shades of grey, merely Yin and Yang.

[Frozendekay]

I use mastery build, 10 man, we are at our 7/14 hc now, tonight proly 8/14 hc and what I always hear from healers that damage I take is so easy to heal they never have to worry. Anyway I guess u should always choose build u're more comfortable to play with. Because if you worry less and focusing more on boss than on actual tanking rotations that is always the best way to go.

Guarantee you'll take less damage as avoidance if you play well, you'll also do like 30-40% more damage. At least give it a go!

[Tyranader]

Okay so my Prot Warrior is 90 and I have a 487 iLevel at the moment and I was wondering should I just go Expertise Soft Cap (7.5%) instead till I get better gear? I cant Cap both my Hit and Expertise to their caps with my gear. And as I am going for Avoidance I was wondering if I would be better off with Reforging Into Dodge and Parry after the 7.5% Expertise Soft cap at my iLevel?

[idefiler6]

Okay so my Prot Warrior is 90 and I have a 487 iLevel at the moment and I was wondering should I just go Expertise Soft Cap (7.5%) instead till I get better gear? I cant Cap both my Hit and Expertise to their caps with my gear. And as I am going for Avoidance I was wondering if I would be better off with Reforging Into Dodge and Parry after the 7.5% Expertise Soft cap at my iLevel?

Expertise and hit hard caps are priority number one. If you're missing you're not benefiting from the extra rage or the DPS.

[Tyranader]

Expertise and hit hard caps are priority number one. If you're missing you're not benefiting from the extra rage or the DPS.

Okay. I'll Keep doing that then.

Also is this tool ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...jYk52akE#gid=0 ) < - Any good to use? I used it and it told me my Parry is too high which I guss is true but that is mainly because almost all my gear has parry on it (Yay timeless isle XP).

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ctair/advanced

EDIT: Also is there any upgrades I can get for Justice points? and Will I be Okay tanking ToT LFR at a 489 iLevel?

[Deleted]

Same here. Most people have the opposite reaction and do it more on farm.

for dem logs

[Deleted]

Okay. I'll Keep doing that then.

Also is this tool ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...jYk52akE#gid=0 ) < - Any good to use? I used it and it told me my Parry is too high which I guss is true but that is mainly because almost all my gear has parry on it (Yay timeless isle XP).

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ctair/advanced

Not really, you do gain a tiny bit of avoidance but you lose the dps gain from hold the line procs. Just go full parry :P

[Tyranader]

Not really, you do gain a tiny bit of avoidance but you lose the dps gain from hold the line procs. Just go full parry :P

Wont not balancing them make me take bigger hits?

[Tirivaria]

Wont not balancing them make me take bigger hits?

No. Fisrtly, we're talking about avoidance so it's a binary situation. You either take the hit or you don't. Secondly, you lose maybe 0.1% avoidance. You won't notice it at all. You will get more Hold the Line procs though from shifting towards parry.