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  1. #1

    [Ret] T16 Set Bonuses

    Paladin T16 Retribution 2P Bonus (New) When Art of War activates, all damage is increased by 5% for 6 sec.
    Paladin T16 Retribution 4P Bonus (New) Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free.


    What do You think?
    Two set bonus is fine, but I am not really sure about that four set, it's like... eh... hopefully it will be changed.
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  2. #2
    I actually wanted to open a thread as soon as i saw it, glad u also arent sure about the 4set.

    the thing is, they already tried it last tier, before it was changed to the way it is now, they had the 4set on TV proccing a free DS...
    i dont like it, at those lvls our haste will be so good, that we'll hardly have any downtime to use that free DS, and since its on GCD, we will waste using an ability that generates holy power, for the use of a FREE DS, an AOE ability that does low dmg on single target fights...

    i dont know how its going to work, i dont kow if thats a dps boost, i really dont know yet and i think it will change..

    how am i going to live without the amazing T15 4set buff lol, i love seeing those 400k crits for TV

  3. #3
    Divine Storm hits harder than Judgment and Crusader Strike. Quick napkin math shows that because TV does more damage than DS, it isn't going to be a DPS increase to use the DS procc unless there is space for a filler in the rotation, or if Exorcism is within 2-3 seconds of coming off of CD.

  4. #4
    if you assume that 1 HP = 1/3 of a TV, so 91% weapon damage, there's no chance in hell that a 100% weapon damage attack will outperform something that does damage AND grants 1 HP. I mean, the seal proc alone does 12% weapon damage. and even if they make it grant a charge, all our holy power moves do more damage single target than DS. it would need a 50% damage buff, 1 charge of holy power and free to be even close to a DPS increase.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 10:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Exac View Post
    Divine Storm hits harder than Judgment and Crusader Strike. Quick napkin math shows that because TV does more damage than DS, it isn't going to be a DPS increase to use the DS procc unless there is space for a filler in the rotation, or if Exorcism is within 2-3 seconds of coming off of CD.
    WTF are you smoking?

    CS does 125% weapon damage. DS does 100% weapon damage AND doesn't proc SoT. judgement does a little less damage than CS, but also procs SoT. and you need to include the charge of HP you get.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    CS does 125% weapon damage. DS does 100% weapon damage AND doesn't proc SoT. judgement does a little less damage than CS, but also procs SoT. and you need to include the charge of HP you get.
    this!!!

    include the holy charge generation of the ability.
    i can argue about the judgement, but still, although its a "free" DS, i dont know how much of a boost it is really...

    take the monks for example, they have a chance to proc a free Tiger Palm that does "Free" extra dmg, but the dmg is crappy, and if their 30% buff isnt low they wont use it, unless they dont have anything else to do ... same same
    why is it a free DS, why? i dont see the logic in that, just means in AOE fights we can shine, but on Single fights we get screwed up a bit...

  6. #6
    DS has the unfortunate flaw of not generating HP. I guarantee you that its going to be a DPS increase to WAIT on using the procc untill you have a gap in your rotation single-target, remember that we don't cast Inquisition as often any more.
    Last edited by Exac; 2013-06-12 at 08:37 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Improtaight View Post
    this!!!

    include the holy charge generation of the ability.
    i can argue about the judgement, but still, although its a "free" DS, i dont know how much of a boost it is really...

    take the monks for example, they have a chance to proc a free Tiger Palm that does "Free" extra dmg, but the dmg is crappy, and if their 30% buff isnt low they wont use it, unless they dont have anything else to do ... same same
    why is it a free DS, why? i dont see the logic in that, just means in AOE fights we can shine, but on Single fights we get screwed up a bit...
    as I mentioned, if you assume 1 HP is worth 91% weapon damage (1/3 TV), you only need to do 9% weapon damage for a HP generator to outperform a free DS with no HP generation. that's 1 hit of SoR. i doubt judgement does less than SoR.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  8. #8
    We shall see. The PTR is downloading right now; I don't know how long we have until its up.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone View Post
    WTF are you smoking?

    CS does 125% weapon damage. DS does 100% weapon damage AND doesn't proc SoT. judgement does a little less damage than CS, but also procs SoT. and you need to include the charge of HP you get.
    Divine Storm is pure holy damage, isn't it? CS is physical and thus gets reduced by about 20-25% due to enemy armor stat.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Divine Storm is pure holy damage, isn't it? CS is physical and thus gets reduced by about 20-25% due to enemy armor stat.
    even so, you keep forgetting about the charge of HP. that's worth 91% weapon damage (70 if you deduct armor). so even if you include armor, DS will still hit weaker than any HP generator if it does not grant HP.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    Divine Storm is pure holy damage, isn't it? CS is physical and thus gets reduced by about 20-25% due to enemy armor stat.
    Not to forget inquisition! Ie its 130% magic damage, whereas TV gets reduced by armor from 275 to about 195% (boss armor reduces damage by 25-30%)

    But yeah ST itll probably only be used as a filler when you have free GCDs, for 2+ targets itll be ab nice boost. Nowhere near current 4p, but "that doesnt matter" because new 4p has to fight against old 2p

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    But yeah ST itll probably only be used as a filler when you have free GCDs, for 2+ targets itll be ab nice boost. Nowhere near current 4p, but "that doesnt matter" because new 4p has to fight against old 2p
    This is what I thought too..
    I'd consider 2/5 t15 together with 2/5 t16 instead of going for 4/5 of t16.
    Anyways - IMHO they will change it, hopefully.
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  13. #13
    WTB: It procs free DS OR Templar.. Problem solved since it will be good for both single/aoe fights

  14. #14
    It's obviously not a well thought 4set. We will present our arguments and they will buff or change it. Adding something as simple as ". . . and does not proc the global cooldown" would fix this.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelyka View Post
    WTB: It procs free DS OR Templar.. Problem solved since it will be good for both single/aoe fights
    this is sort of what the Divine Purpose talent is there for no?
    which is another complication, that talent, i dont see how u can live with that talent AND the 4set bonus...

  16. #16
    no self respecting Ret will use divine Purpose.

    this 4 set is prob going to make me carry off pieces for single target fights and 4 set pieces for aoe fights/trash...I can work with that I suppose, but they did do this 4 set DS nonsense for a previous tier and it failed. Maybe we will get lucky again. Or perhaps enuff Off pieces will have a ton of Haste to work with.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 420psilo View Post
    no self respecting Ret will use divine Purpose.

    this 4 set is prob going to make me carry off pieces for single target fights and 4 set pieces for aoe fights/trash...I can work with that I suppose, but they did do this 4 set DS nonsense for a previous tier and it failed. Maybe we will get lucky again. Or perhaps enuff Off pieces will have a ton of Haste to work with.
    I use divine purpose for dungeons scenarios and questing. Its the most fun choice, so i use it.
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  18. #18
    Just make a minor change to the 4set:

    Paladin T16 Retribution 4P Bonus (New) Damaging Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to proc a free Divine Storm.

    As in, 1/4 of the time, after casting a TV or DS, you get a free, instant, passive DS. No GCD, HoPo, or button press required.

    Sound OP? It's about as poweful as the Ele Sham mastery, and the advent of "damaging" to HoPo consumers means we cant game it with 1HoPo WOG/Inq's. This makes it great passive cleave (which we severely lack), and a minor boost to ST damage (which is already great).

    Plus, swirls.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Plus, swirls.
    Yo dawg


    The only incarnation in which the 4pc T16 would make sense is if there's no GCD attached to the proc.

    Autocast is tricky, breaks CC and takes positional control and buff awareness away.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Veliane View Post
    Yo dawg


    The only incarnation in which the 4pc T16 would make sense is if there's no GCD attached to the proc.

    Autocast is tricky, breaks CC and takes positional control and buff awareness away.
    CC? Positional/buff awareness?

    This isn't BC.

    On the real, though, I agree. However, the coding logistics of removing the GCD for the spell would be a nightmare. What if the free DS proc's off of a casted DS? You'd have to wait for the original GCD to even start casting the "bonus" one, so you could use a HoPo gen I guess, but it just seems clunky. That's why I was thinking a free auto-fire one would be easier (well, that and the fact that we keep dumbing down and idiot-proofing rotations).
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

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