New BrM Set Bonuses

[Solial]

Item - Monk T16 Brewmaster 2P Bonus (New) When your Black Ox statue Guards another player, you also get a Guard for 15% of that amount.
Item - Monk T16 Brewmaster 4P Bonus (New) Purifying Brew also heals you for 30% of the amount of staggered damage cleared.

No changes mentioned for the monk class so far.
So first of all we are losing our 2pc, which by itself will drop the value of crit. However, how the new 2pc is based off damage dealt, crit will make us gain more shields from it.

We are losing free purifies, but we are gaining purify heals. This seems like it will increase the value of mastery by a bit as well.

Quick napkin math example, real values will be higher or lower depending on cooldowns and amount of mastery we have.

We get hit for 1 million damage. We stagger off 750k of it. Leaving us with a 250k damage taken. We instantly remove the 750k stagger DoT, which in turn also heals us for 225k, almost the total of the initial hit.

With higher mastery values and with the amount of base haste from gear, we can likely build up a decent shuffle and put all of our chi into purifies in high damage phases and require a very small amount of healing. Imagine having this 4pc on a boss like Ra-Den where red stagger is very common.

Random stuff. Discuss.

[roblina]

You gave it more thought than me, I dismissed it as crap right away!

The 2 piece I don't like at all, now they changed it to 1600% atk power needed as damage I feel it procs so rarely, and the zero control over when it does means this is close to useless in a heroic raid scenario imo. A 15% shield I can't even imagine noticing when it does eventually proc either.

The 4 piece however, after reading what you wrote, does sound nice indeed. I see our haste requirement jumping up loads this tier as we wont have the free purifies and like you say we'd want to purify even more for heals.

I prefer our current bonuses but I spose I can live with these. Give our current 2piece, and the new 4 piece. :<

[Kisho]

It'd be interesting if we combine the 4 piece with RoRo. Make mastery our highest stat, potentially get 100% mastery: get hit, purify, and instead of being damaged you're being healed by melee attacks.

This 4 piece has the potential to be quite broken.

One thing to clarify: I don't believe the value of haste will increase. Since the amount healed will scale with the amount staggered, if you purify more then all you're going to do is heal yourself a lot for small amounts, rather than heal a few times for large amounts. As an example:

Melee strike for 100,000/ 50% staggered. Imagine the following sequence of events:

Melee: 50,000 stagger
Purify: 15,000 heal
Melee: 50,000 stagger
Melee: 100,000 stagger
Purify: 30,000 heal

You could've squeezed in another purify between the second and third melee strikes, but all that would do is spread out the healing rather than heal you for more. As such, I doubt haste's value will increase at all. If anything, it'll become the stat that we reforge away from, since we get enough of it at base on our gear.

Theoretical secondary stat prio in 5.4: hit/exp to preferred amounts > crit = mastery > haste

Bear in mind that with higher ilevels come more stats, so it's going to be even easier to cap hit/exp (even to 15% exp), and have enough haste to do everything you need to in your rotation, even with the loss of free purifys from the T15 4 set bonus.

To explain why my gut says 'crit = mastery': with the stat inflation with higher ilevels, our crit is going to go through the roof if we keep stacking it like we do. We're going to have enough to have a crazy high EB uptime; not 100%, but as close as we need it to be. As such, we may as well start putting more stats into Mastery (and of course, if you're a heroic mode 25 man raider then you already were doing just that). Also if you have RoRo, if you make mastery the slightly higher stat then when it procs you're going to be staggering almost all damage taken, which can then be purified to heal you for more damage than you actually took up front.

So what we may end up doing is getting RoRo, doing what WW does with their stats (but only with crit/mastery for us), and enjoying a super smooth damage intake. Interesting thought.

As a disclaimer, I've done no maths to back this up, so am fully willing to admit my error in any of the above. It's what my gut tells me, so please don't treat this as gospel!

[Deleted]

I'm not too thrilled. The 2pc will not be very visible at all. The only fights it'll be especially useful on is constant high dmg fights like ra-den where it'll be helpful no matter when it procs. And even then it's gonna be 15% of 30-35% of your healing. Atleast according to my logs (Dostoyevsky Ra-den. I can't post link due to low post count atm.

Which will be like 4,5%ish more healing done total.
I don't have gem tho so add 10-15% on top of that. Still no big deal.

The 4set I dunno about. The way I use purify right now is before big hits or right after, for right after it's gonna be nice but it'll be wasted 80% of the time if you have decent healers.

[Mumba]

The 4p is stupid. We're tanks, not healers. It's our job to reduce damage taken and not heal it up. I'm no expert at all but unless I miss something it makes the stat weights weird.
4p = chi based = haste
4p = mastery based
Elusive Brew = crit based.

I'm jealous over the DK bonuses which are fully designed for their mechanics
2P Bonus (New) Every 4 Heart Strikes, Rune Strikes, or Blood Boils will add one charge to your next Bone Shield.
4P Bonus (New) Dancing Rune Weapon will reactivate all Frost and Unholy runes as Death Runes, and make your next 4 Death Strikes free.

[Kisho]

The 4p is stupid. We're tanks, not healers. It's our job to reduce damage taken and not heal it up. I'm no expert at all but unless I miss something it makes the stat weights weird.

That seems like an arbitrary reason to dislike the set bonus. Especially since later on you say you're jealous of DKs, when... They're the big self-healing tank? Also, does this mean you don't use Expel Harm, GotO orbs, Chi Wave, etc.?

A tank's job is to stay alive and keep the enemy focused on them. Healing ourselves is perfectly in line with the first goal, and the 4 set is a great way of implementing it; do we purify a lot and keep healing ourselves, or do we wait for a big stagger, thus a big heal? More choices, more depth. More interesting.

Why does it make the stat weights weird too? It changes them up somewhat, sure. But weird? Not really. So long as you understand what each stat does for you then you should have no issue figuring out which stats you should go for in 5.4.

[Deleted]

Personally, I'm hoping for the 4p bonus to be changed.
Keep it as it is, but change the heal in a HoT over 5 seconds.
If you purify again, add the new healing with the left over hot. (Like fire mage ignite?)
For I fear that in current state, the heal you'll get when you purify will be an overheal.

[Kisho]

Personally, I'm hoping for the 4p bonus to be changed.
Keep it as it is, but change the heal in a HoT over 5 seconds.
If you purify again, add the new healing with the left over hot. (Like fire mage ignite?)
For I fear that in current state, the heal you'll get when you purify will be an overheal.

That seems appropriate and would be more thematic with Stagger. That said, all this worrying about overhealing: even if it does overheal, you've lost nothing. Gained nothing sure, but lost nothing as well. It's not a huge deal, and if it is overhealing then you didn't need the heal anyway, so who cares?

The heal will probably save our lives at best, or do nothing when we didn't need it to do anything at worst. Seems like a net positive to me.

But yeah, to re-iterate: I like the idea of the HoT. Would work as a sort of 'reverse stagger', which is interesting to me.

[Deleted]

That seems appropriate and would be more thematic with Stagger. That said, all this worrying about overhealing: even if it does overheal, you've lost nothing. Gained nothing sure, but lost nothing as well. It's not a huge deal, and if it is overhealing then you didn't need the heal anyway, so who cares?

The heal will probably save our lives at best, or do nothing when we didn't need it to do anything at worst. Seems like a net positive to me.

But yeah, to re-iterate: I like the idea of the HoT. Would work as a sort of 'reverse stagger', which is interesting to me.

well the loss would be previous tier 4set / current tier bloodsoaked(?) offpieces

[Pariah]

As it stands, T15 2pc looks to be in my BiS list still. Obviously once some more math comes out-- watch me look like a fool. But until then, our current 2pc seems so strong.

Maybe collect the T16 4pc for certain fights but run T15 2pc + offspec BloodSoaked gear (or whatever they're calling TF gear now.)

[DemoBytom]

I really, really don't like the new tier bonuses.
First of - they are just plain boring.. T15 2pc bonus changed the way we play, changed how stats work, added a small "minigame" to our already interesting gameplay. The new ones are just dull.. 2pc that is completely out of our control.. Could just be a 5% less dmg taken overall (or whatever the average uptime on the shields will be) and we wouldn't really notice it. 4 pc is just.. well small bonus to "ouch stagger? let me help healer a bit".. I doubt we'll change when/how we purify, we'll still just hit the button when stagger gets high.. So overall - again, just something that we won't even notice....
Math wise it looks good. But gameplay wise I'm really disappointed how dull and boring they are ATM (especially after such, such great T15 2pc)...

[Ampere]

I like the new bonuses, but it's really hard to beat the T15 2 piece. On demand +12% stagger is so useful for hard hitting attacks. Unless they nerf it I can see myself swapping back to that set bonus for bosses that have and "Impale/Talon Rake/Triple Puncture" style attack.

T16 2 piece is good because it will reduce our damage taken, but it seems like it would be hard to time the shield for big attacks. Track your dps until a new raid member is shielded and slow down on dps to hold off on the shield? Doesn't seem practical or realistic.

T16 2 piece adds a self heal, pretty cool. Quick timing with purifies and enough mastery could as the OP was saying make us almost not need a healer.

We'll probably value haste a bit more this coming tier when we lose our T15 4 piece. The current stats on datamined T16 look identical to T15 so I assume they are placeholders. I hope there is less hit on gear.

As it stands, T15 2pc looks to be in my BiS list still. Obviously once some more math comes out-- watch me look like a fool. But until then, our current 2pc seems so strong.

Maybe collect the T16 4pc for certain fights but run T15 2pc + offspec BloodSoaked gear (or whatever they're calling TF gear now.)

Nah they pretty much are going to have to nerf the T15 2 piece or it will still see a lot of use. When holy paladins were holding on to T14 for the Holy Shock CD reduction it got nerfed, in the Firelands ele shaman 2 piece (100% fire elemental uptime... was amazing) got nerfed in dragon soul. I agree with you that it will still be too good, at least for fights with massive single hits.

[Nayre]

My reactions when I saw them last night:

2pc: Cool enough, and I like it. Obviously not as good as our current bonus, but it fits with our "do damage to stay alive" theme. And assuming the mini-guard lasts as long as our current one does, it will help reduce our damage some.

4pc: MEH. Immediately didn't like it. Either the heal will be so small as to not care and it's just a small bonus, or it will be so big that you're probably going to already have the healers attention and most of it will be an overheal. If it stays as-is, I'm not gonna bother with 4pc.

[SurrealNight]

2P - So picking random N Twin's where I did almost 200k my Guard healing was 4.5 mil. So I would have received 675k in random shields over ~7 minute? Yawn.
4P -I feel like this is going to either result in a lot of overheal, some weird behavior in using PB, or going back to stacking more haste.

So far I'm already missing the T15 bonus =( Need to make sure I got a fully upgraded H Tier set so I can roll with it at least through normal. Who knows it's just the first PTR push bah the sky is falling!

[Kisho]

On the subject of current T15 2 piece bonus:

Remember that we're going to get into new gear, with much higher stats. With the 4 piece bonus as well, mastery's value is increasing, so chances are we're probably going to end up with enough mastery to nearly off-set the loss of the 2 piece bonus (960 * 12 = 11,520; I don't think we'll get 'that' much more mastery, but it'll be close enough considering the T15 2 piece bonus doesn't have a 100% uptime) (please also note that I'm going off memory for the 960 mastery = 1% mastery thing. I could be wrong!). Also bear in mind the lesser stats from using old gear just for T15 2 piece bonus.

Also the Guards we're getting will shave off some damage too. 100k guard on raid = 15k guard on us, and considering the increased AP and DPS in general we're going to get then we should be seeing quite a lot of damage reduction from these mini-guards. It'll all add up over the course of a boss fight.

[SurrealNight]

In my example the 2P Guard shields would have resulted in 67.5k heals which is 9.5% of my total health (707k w/ some stam stuff) receiving 1.37 shield/min. Who knows how T16 will scale or if they change what it takes to proc statue Guards but I'm less than impressed.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6731&e=7169

[Pariah]

Nah they pretty much are going to have to nerf the T15 2 piece or it will still see a lot of use. When holy paladins were holding on to T14 for the Holy Shock CD reduction it got nerfed, in the Firelands ele shaman 2 piece (100% fire elemental uptime... was amazing) got nerfed in dragon soul. I agree with you that it will still be too good, at least for fights with massive single hits.

I don't disagree at all that T15 2pc might see a nerf just like Holy Paladins saw this tier but it all depends on timing. It takes awhile for those hotfixes to come out and progression could already be over. Obviously this varies depending on the person but gear selection is only vital until the last boss dies and then it's farm mode.

They're going to need to nerf T15 2pc with the 5.4 release or change these set bonuses. God, I hope they do.

Or... or... give us the T15 2pc as baseline like they did with T8 (?) rogue rupture crits. I just got excited thinking about that possibility (that absolutely will not happen.)

[Orion Antares]

I think the new 4pc basically washes the current 2pc. We're moving from staggering an extra 12% damage to healing for 30% of our current stagger. The example of the numbers up top show that it's potentially an EH gain (from 12% to 15% or more).

The 2pc seems about as useful as the current 4pc. Nice to have but not really anything to balance around.

[Ragethorn]

Who knows it's just the first PTR push bah the sky is falling!

I would completely agree with you if the T15 Blood DK set bonus had been changed at the last minute. As it stands, that set bonus was/is a complete joke.

---------- Post added 2013-06-12 at 10:41 AM ----------

Also the Guards we're getting will shave off some damage too. 100k guard on raid = 15k guard on us, and considering the increased AP and DPS in general we're going to get then we should be seeing quite a lot of damage reduction from these mini-guards. It'll all add up over the course of a boss fight.

I'm going to remain optimistic for now and trust we'll be, at least, in the same place or better as the current tier. You have to admit though, the T16 set bonuses are looking rather boring.

[SurrealNight]

I think the new 4pc basically washes the current 2pc. We're moving from staggering an extra 12% damage to healing for 30% of our current stagger.

30% minus your overhealing % you mean right? The T15 2P is never "wasted" in any way unless your popping and dropping EB while not tanking for some reason (maybe to soak physical AOE or adds).