Patch 5.4 Ability Discussion Thread

[Rorke]

They need to put on a cool down on Burst of Speed. It's currently way too powerful on the ptr, it doesn't even use a gcd. Assassination also needs a nerf in damage that doesn't hurt pve.

Still waiting on the revert to killing spree if its even going to happen.

[Wow]

They need to put on a cool down on Burst of Speed. It's currently way too powerful on the ptr, it doesn't even use a gcd. Assassination also needs a nerf in damage that doesn't hurt pve.

Still waiting on the revert to killing spree if its even going to happen.

Pretty sure they are waiting until they have a solution to the pve gear and trinkets before nerfing anyone based on dmg in pvp.

[Rorke]

Pretty sure they are waiting until they have a solution to the pve gear and trinkets before nerfing anyone based on dmg in pvp.

It's not the pve gear. I'm using full pvp gear with no potions. Assassination is doing way too much damage and its way too easy to apply. There is no reason to even play Subtlety when you have to work 10 times harder to do half the damage Assassination does. Venomous Wounds and Assassination Mastery are the culprits and need some form of nerf in pvp. People are going to complain up the ass about Rogues if Assassination goes live like this.

[Wow]

It's not the pve gear. I'm using full pvp gear with no potions. Assassination is doing way too much damage and its way too easy to apply. There is no reason to even play Subtlety when you have to work 10 times harder to do half the damage Assassination does. Venomous Wounds and Assassination Mastery are the culprits and need some form of nerf in pvp. People are going to complain up the ass about Rogues if Assassination goes live like this.

Assassination has got 0 dmg changes on the ptr if its overpowered there then its overpowered on live.

[Rorke]

Assassination has got 0 dmg changes on the ptr if its overpowered there then its overpowered on live.

Yeah there is a change its called pvp gear being at item level 522. You know as well as I know how well Rogues scale with gear. And you're acting like Assassination is terrible right now when its damage is easily above Subtlety's. My Ptr Rogue has 86% mastery which is insane. There needs to be some sort of scale back nerf like Frost Mages got for Assassination Rogues. Or they can just make deadly poison unusable in pvp situations which is probably the best idea I just came up with.

I have no idea why people all over the web are sitting around linking crappy Killing Spree videos with full pve gear, elixirs, food buff and potions when Assassination Rogues are roaming around killing people in 6 seconds with none of those buffs.

[Wow]

Yeah there is a change its called pvp gear being at item level 522. You know as well as I know how well Rogues scale with gear. And you're acting like Assassination is terrible right now when its damage is easily above Subtlety's. My Ptr Rogue has 86% mastery which is insane. There needs to be some sort of scale back nerf like Frost Mages got for Assassination Rogues. Or they can just make deadly poison unusable in pvp situations which is probably the best idea I just came up with.

I have no idea why people all over the web are sitting around linking crappy Killing Spree videos with full pve gear, elixirs, food buff and potions when Assassination Rogues are roaming around killing people in 6 seconds with none of those buffs.

More gear isn't a buff when everyone gets it... Who said assassination is bad on live? You know that any class can kill someone that fast on the ptr with no pve gear right? So I guess everyones op then....

[Verain]

I have no idea why people all over the web are sitting around linking crappy Killing Spree videos with full pve gear, elixirs, food buff and potions when Assassination Rogues are roaming around killing people in 6 seconds with none of those buffs.

I don't think the burst of speed buff is that warranted. I think the devs will switch it from "no one takes it" to "way too many rogues take it". It doesn't need a cooldown, it doesn't need to be on the global, it doesn't need any of the bad fucking ideas that I see here and there. On live, it's rare, because it costs 30 energy. On the ptr it's common because it costs 15 energy. It's clearly intended to boost rogue mobility- shadowstep is also being buffed, remember- but I think 15 energy is too good. Maybe we could look at it at 20 energy or something.

But, I've been wrong about this move before. When they made the buff, I was convinced everyone would take it all the time. I certainly have. The damage loss in pve is trivial, but many rogues will argue to DEATH because some rogue blows 120 energy over the whole fight bursting into position. In pvp I miss stepping traps, but I honestly haven't been able to do that much anyway, and it is always a 50/50 thing- I stand on the trap with my healer, sometimes she gets trapped anyway. I don't miss stepping kick, because that almost never worked and was super fiddly and if I fucked it up I would be out of position with kick down- that could be a loss right there. Meanwhile, getting it right, which was most of the time, never promised a win- it just prevented my healer from getting sheeped for 5 seconds or something. Step is cool, don't get me wrong, but burst of speed is really the move I've always wanted since vanilla and it's just way super fun. And don't get me started about how amazing it is to go anywhere at all ever in the game.

So at 15 energy, I think more rogues will suddenly be all over this, even with a 20 second step.


All that being said- I don't think that the change from 496 to 522 gear is going to boost assassination that much more than sub. You are simply overstating how good scaling is (and forgetting that sub actually scales better than mutilate).

[Sicarius87]

It's not the pve gear. I'm using full pvp gear with no potions. Assassination is doing way too much damage and its way too easy to apply. There is no reason to even play Subtlety when you have to work 10 times harder to do half the damage Assassination does. Venomous Wounds and Assassination Mastery are the culprits and need some form of nerf in pvp. People are going to complain up the ass about Rogues if Assassination goes live like this.

I dont know about you, but my rogue on ptr plays nothing like my rogue on live. My rogue on live is fully tyrannical and has better stats than my rogue on ptr in full grievous. And for whatever reason, energy regen feels way slower than it did at the start of the expansion. My normal "rotation" i do in pvp on live i cannot do on ptr at all.

Yeah there is a change its called pvp gear being at item level 522. You know as well as I know how well Rogues scale with gear. And you're acting like Assassination is terrible right now when its damage is easily above Subtlety's. My Ptr Rogue has 86% mastery which is insane. There needs to be some sort of scale back nerf like Frost Mages got for Assassination Rogues. Or they can just make deadly poison unusable in pvp situations which is probably the best idea I just came up with.

I have no idea why people all over the web are sitting around linking crappy Killing Spree videos with full pve gear, elixirs, food buff and potions when Assassination Rogues are roaming around killing people in 6 seconds with none of those buffs.

The only way your rogue has 86% mastery is if youre gemming pure mastery. Im gemming pure mastery on live and i have 90% base mastery. 91.6% with food buff, and about 112% mastery fully raid pvp buffed. However, gemming and reforging the same on PTR with Grievous gear, im only at around 86%.

Removing deadly poison from PvP is the stupidest thing to do. Sometimes Ryan you have some good ideas, but a lot of the time, the things you say are just stupid. Rogues dont need a nerf especially assassination. You have to remember, numbers arent tuned yet on PTR.

[Verain]

I don't buy the numbers argument. They are not going to do some large numbers change on the PTR. I believe his assessment that mutilate will have good burst. But I don't see that as being bad in any way yet- the case hasn't been made that this will be in any way out of line compared to DKs (full CC immunity for like 20 seconds, free to run a pve rotation), hunters (still shocking damage), mages (still solid deep freezes- only nerfed because of scaling), or even locks.

[khrayzeeness]

I'm not seeing how the new recup changes are bad for pvp. For instance, your doing 2s with a healer and you have the new glyph that increases healing recieved from all sources while recup is up. If anything thats nice to have cause it saves your healer a ton of mana and boosts your survivability to be able to survive someones burst easier.

[shadowboy]

Glyph of recovery does NOT increase recuperate's healing. It only affects healing from OTHER sources (ie, your healers/hybrid off heals, leeching poison, or healing potions).

[khrayzeeness]

Which is exactly the point I was making..... It helps your healer and over all team survivability.

[Rupenbritz]

New passive ability, Ruthlessness: This passive ability is learned by Combat Rogues at Level 32. The Rogue gains a 20% chance per combo point (100% chance at 5 combo points) to immediately regain 1 combo point while performing a finishing move.

Ruthlessness isnt new..? It was in Vanilla, TBC and most parts off WLK if i remember right :P Didnt even know they removed it with new talent system tbh.

[Phookah]

So wait... They just made combat generate MORE CP's than before? If I was reading that right, then with 5 cps and full anticipation charges you would get 4 eviscerates back to back to back to back? Not sure if this is a nerf or a buff, I already have trouble getting rid of CP's under AR and SB. I suppose it will be about the same with 4 piece T15, but a buff if you don't have it. /shrug

[shadowboy]

New passive ability, Ruthlessness: This passive ability is learned by Combat Rogues at Level 32. The Rogue gains a 20% chance per combo point (100% chance at 5 combo points) to immediately regain 1 combo point while performing a finishing move.

Ruthlessness isnt new..? It was in Vanilla, TBC and most parts off WLK if i remember right :P Didnt even know they removed it with new talent system tbh.

It's new in the sense that it was removed at MoP launch and has been "reintroduced."

That said, this ruthlessness functions differently than the pre-mop one. The pre-mop one was a fixed chance on finishers and did not depend on the number of combo points spent.

[Naxere]

So wait... They just made combat generate MORE CP's than before?

Well, not necessarily. The 20% increase in Energy for SS means less SS overall, so less CPs from that and less Bandit's Guile uptime.

[Crookids]

Hmm, it looks like they are trying to make Combat viable. Although, I am liking Vendetta glyph baseline with the redirect one. Also, FoK glyph will surely increase our AOE as Assassination.

Overall, some good changes. Doesn't completely fix us, but they are welcome band aids.

Until they completely fix Combat (eherm, Killing Spree), I won't be happy if I have to switch from Assassination.

[whathump]

I dream of a day where Vendetta is finally off the GCD like (I'm pretty sure) every other DPS cooldown.

[Carp The Fish]

Other big glyph change they are doing (not discussed yet, I think) is that they're getting rid of Glyph of Adrenaline Rush to make it baseline, which is where the new Redirect glyph is going. Bye, regular-speed Adrenaline Rush.

The fact of the matter is that Patch 5.4 might be the first time we see the fully-realized MoP rogue. REAL glyph choices, interesting talent choices, most of the nerfs that we see between Cata-MoP transition are gone; hell, Combat is even getting Ruthlessness back!
Personally, I'm excited.

[Wow]

The fact of the matter is that Patch 5.4 might be the first time we see the fully-realized MoP rogue. REAL glyph choices, interesting talent choices, most of the nerfs that we see between Cata-MoP transition are gone; hell, Combat is even getting Ruthlessness back!
Personally, I'm excited.

Lets not get ahead of ourselves on everything here.