Would you ever volunteer for a foreign military, in a time of war?

[Nakura Chambers]

Didn't say it never happened. Every country is convinced that they are fighting for freedom. Let me guess, you are in one of those who are TRULY fighting for freedom, right?

In a morally relativistic sense, you're correct. However, America isn't a morally relativistic nation, we're a nation that was founded on principles, the principles of classical liberalism and anti-colonialism. From our perspective, we absolutely are fighting for freedom, because we hold these truths to be self-evident.

[Vokal]

Except we are debating philosophy, political philosophy to be precise. The notion of requiring military service as a prerequisite for voting and holding office is entirely in the realm of philosophy.

You were debating that. Not us. Just you. You brought it up, you talked about it, you wanted to talk about it and are now trying very hard to get us to talk about it instead of the actual topic of this thread. We on the other hand are talking about this thread and how we don't want to go die for your war(s).

You're not doing a good job so far trying to convince us.

Also, nice strawman though.
>Implying I'm a Christian.
>Implying I'm a gun owner.
>Implying I'm an interventionist.

I never did 2 and 3. It's rather implied that if people go to war they are handed guns. What do you want them to do? Use harsh words on the enemy soldiers? Stop going off-topic please.

[Nakura Chambers]

He isn't arguing that. Neither am I.

We're just baffled at how you're convinced it's relevant. I don't speak for him, but I certainly am quite baffled at everything you're writing.

We've gone from "liberal schools brainwashing kids" to the korean war trying to justify why people like myself should sign up for a pointless war where we'd most likely die in a most terrible fashion. You're trying to sell us "your war". We're not buying. We're not sipping that koolaid. Try harder.

Sorry, I seem to have misinterpreted his post, I wasn't quite sure what he meant by that sentence.

I'm as weary of war as your next sane person. I think most wars in history were fought for unjust reasons and that most of the proposed wars today [Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, etc.] are unjust. However, one would be hard-pressed to argue that there were no just wars. To imply that no war was ever just, is a clear example of liberal anti-war brainwashing that is disconnected from reality. If you really believe that, then you should move to Britain, since clearly the American Revolutionary War wasn't justified, by your logic.

[Eläin]

Yea, I would. That said there would have to be loads of factors that would have to be right/wrong for me to participate (cba. to list them here). Im very peaceful by nature, but from studying history for years Im quite certain you should never say never.

[Deleted]

In a morally relativistic sense, you're correct. However, America isn't a morally relativistic nation, we're a nation that was founded on principles, the principles of classical liberalism and anti-colonialism. From our perspective, we absolutely are fighting for freedom, because we hold these truths to be self-evident.

And yet you still act like a superpower and invade countries, exactly as I said. I don't care about the reasons. If you want me to do it, I'll bring the Vietnam war instead.

There is always a scheme behind wars. Land, money, using religion as an excuse to capture cities named Jerusalem, anything. The perpetrator will always be the one with a lot of power and lying to the left and right, while the country that defends itself fights for survival. The interesting part is that these roles always switch, so there is no true innocent country. The defendant might get its hands on power in the future, and they inevitably become the abusers.

And this is why principles mean nothing. They do not fit with reality, it's a pat on the back.

[Nakura Chambers]

You were debating that. Not us. Just you. You brought it up, you talked about it, you wanted to talk about it and are now trying very hard to get us to talk about it instead of the actual topic of this thread. We on the other hand are talking about this thread and how we don't want to go die for your war(s).

You're not doing a good job so far trying to convince us.

You directly quoted and responded to my post here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21439331

I never did 2 and 3. It's rather implied that if people go to war they are handed guns. What do you want them to do? Use harsh words on the enemy soldiers? Stop going off-topic please.

You said "your gun and your Bible" which implies that I'm a Christian and a gun owner. You also said "your wars," which implies that I'm interventionist, evne though I have not proposed any new wars. This entire question is not a current political question, in fact, it has nothing to do with politics at all. This thread is merely a personal question as to whether or not someone would volunteer to fight in a foreign military or rebel group. And yet you say that I'm going off-topic, when you're also turning this into a political discussion.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 10:30 AM ----------

And yet you still act like a superpower and invade countries, exactly as I said. I don't care about the reasons. If you want me to do it, I'll bring the Vietnam war instead.

I'm pretty sure we're not just acting like a superpower. Being a superpower /=/ being imperialistic. I am opposed to invading other countries in all but the most extreme circumstances. The first Vietnam War was a just war, we were merely on the wrong side of it.

[Vokal]

To imply that no war was ever just, is a clear example of liberal anti-war brainwashing that is disconnected from reality.

Oh boy here we go again. Sure thing why don't you tell us all about your brand of brainwashing being better than that other brand of brainwashing thats more popular today. I for one sure would love to hear all about the pre-packaged mass-marketed political ideology you support for sure.

Were there any just wars? Who knows, history is simply what a few people (who had the willingness and ability to write and write well) wrote down. Were you there thousands of years ago when a certain conflict happened? If not how could you possibly know all the details to decide whether a certain war was just or not? We don't even know such intimate details from different perspectives about wars that happened recently or are still happening. How could you possibly tell me any conflict was justified thousands of years ago....and even if you're this mythical immortal being whose been around forever with proof of X or Y war being a 100% justified then how do you argue applying logic from that past exception to the present norm where the dynamics of combat, conflict, war and politics are entirely different?

If you really believe that, then you should move to Britain, since clearly the American Revolutionary War wasn't justified, by your logic.

I'd like you to pinpoint where exactly I stated I reside in the US, or where I've stated I reside at all.

Whose making assumptions now?

And judging by your logic of making people sign up for millitary service if they want to vote....you should probably move out of your country to one that has such a rule....or move out of reality to the Starship Troopers universe. Something tells me you've already done the second one.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 08:34 PM ----------

You directly quoted and responded to my post here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post21439331

Yes. Thus me saying you wanted to talk about it. Because you wrote it down first. Not me, you. And you keep bringing it up repeatedly instead of sticking to the main discussion. Like right now.

---------- Post added 2013-06-13 at 08:39 PM ----------

You said "your gun and your Bible" which implies that I'm a Christian and a gun owner. You also said "your wars," which implies that I'm interventionist, evne though I have not proposed any new wars. This entire question is not a current political question, in fact, it has nothing to do with politics at all. This thread is merely a personal question as to whether or not someone would volunteer to fight in a foreign military or rebel group. And yet you say that I'm going off-topic

You're reading too much into what I've said and arguing semantics, going off-topic yet again and trying very hard to derail the discussion. Possibly because there is very little you have to say that would justify getting blown to bits over some pointless conflicts. People like you that push war love distractions. Its quite ironic when there are people bringing starship troopers and 'brainwashing liberal schools' into a thread like this accusing you of going offtopic.

But then again, like I said its quite hard to push and justify getting your legs and genitals blown to bits over pointless conflict without a good distraction. And you certainly are trying hard to distract.

[Nakura Chambers]

Oh boy here we go again. Sure thing why don't you tell us all about your brand of brainwashing being better than that other brand of brainwashing thats more popular today. I for one sure would love to hear all about the pre-packaged mass-marketed political ideology you support for sure.

I don't subscribe to any party or ideology. Do you?

Were there any just wars? Who knows, history is simply what a few people (who had the willingness and ability to write and write well) wrote down. Were you there thousands of years ago when a certain conflict happened? If not how could you possibly know all the details to decide whether a certain war was just or not? We don't even know such intimate details from different perspectives about wars that happened recently or are still happening. How could you possibly tell me any conflict was justified thousands of years ago....and even if you're this mythical immortal being whose been around forever with proof of X or Y war being a 100% justified then how do you argue applying logic from that past exception to the present norm where the dynamics of combat, conflict, war and politics are entirely different?

It may be difficult to get the full picture, especially for conflicts from thousands of years ago. However, what you can do is look at the research available, from both perspectives and draw conclusions. I've done a great deal of historical research regarding a few different conflicts now, namely the Vietnam War. While certainly both sides in war may be guilty of atrocities, you cannot deny that an overlying cause can be just. Oddly enough, in doing so, you are doing the exact thing you are accusing me of doing; which is painting the world as black-and-white.

I'd like you to pinpoint where exactly I stated I reside in the US, or where I've stated I reside at all.

Whose making assumptions now?

You're right, it was an assumption that you lived in the United States.

And judging by your logic of making people sign up for millitary service if they want to vote....you should probably move out of your country to one that has such a rule....or move out of reality to the Starship Troopers universe. Something tells me you've already done the second one.

I must admit that I respect and admire Heinlein and his ideals, but to outright dismiss his ideas as being "dumb" or "bad," simply because he included them in a few works of fiction is naive. You may not have known this, but Heinlein was a politician and a philosopher before he was a famous fiction author.

Yes. Thus me saying you wanted to talk about it. Because you wrote it down first. Not me, you. And you keep bringing it up repeatedly instead of sticking to the main discussion. Like right now.

Because it's an interesting discussion and worth discussing here. If you want to discuss it elsewhere, start another thread and we can migrate over to it.

[Ellesarr]

I would follow the white rabbit and take the red pill

[Dezerte]

My god, the liberal media and education system sure have done a thorough job...

Damn those liberal media! /tinfoilhat

[ewhenn]

No.

I wouldn't even volunteer for my domestic military.

Edit: I believe in reciprocal relations. I treat you how you treat me. The US govt. is constantly eroding my civil liberties, the recent NSA thing is only the tip of the iceberg, shy would I fight to help them when they are workign against my interest? Let the people who benefit from the system go and fight for it.

[Forfax]

I would defend my homeland , what kind of man would let his place of birth invaded by enemies?

I believe myself to be lucky , lucky to be born in this time , in this specific country.
I believe myself to be able to become whatever i want , i can study and become anything that i wish , everything is within my grasp.
That is what i call freedom , this statement is extremely subjective.

But look at the past , look at the present , most of the world don't even have access to the internet or don't even know what it is.
They are born in country , were they have absolutely no chance of becoming anything , they don't have access to universal healthcare , universal education to become anything they wish.
They are born in country so poor that they can't even feed themselves.

This is the present for billions of people on this planet.

Now look at yourself now , reading this , knowing that billions of people suffer because they have no ''freedom'' , no government to protect them.
Perhaps the government is doing thing that they shouldn't , nobody can denied that.

I would defend the idea of this subjective freedom that i have , against the one that wish to denied me such subjective freedom.
I consider myself to be lucky enough to be free , as subjective and outrageous as it sound to be to some of you.

Don't you think that you should defend this subjective freedom? I think i should and i would if it was required.