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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Sephrie View Post
    What do you think, will we have an orange-fest with every LFR-veteran running with a legendary soon? Or will they keep the legendary exclusive to normals/heroics?
    You can try to act all high and mighty, but the fact of the matter is that there's been an "orange-fest" since Ulduar, with multiple healers in every guild wielding their guaranteed orange mace that lasted through Lich King, and with every guild giving out multiple Shadowmournes. Then multiple casters in every 25-man guild got their special staff.

    The horse is wayyyyyy out of the barn already. Legendaries aren't special anymore. It's just another progression of gear text color that everyone feels entitled to and expects. So I'm not sure what you're complaining about, really, because it's been going on for a long time already.

  2. #222
    Mechagnome Turbotef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    So when you're working your butt off but its your lazy coworker who gets a promotion that doubles his pay, this should not bother you at all since it "doesn't affect you."

    Not every fact can be neatly quantified with tangible evidence. Watching scrubs get legendaries by afking through LFR does bother many people, whether people like you want to believe it or not.
    I've found that the players who usually cry about stuff like this usually are the scrubs.

    #nomadplox

  3. #223
    We don't know for sure if the legendary item will even be a weapon yet - I've got a good feeling that if it is, blizz will at the very least make a LFR version and one that's different in normal and possibly hard modes.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    So when you're working your butt off but its your lazy coworker who gets a promotion that doubles his pay, this should not bother you at all since it "doesn't affect you."

    Not every fact can be neatly quantified with tangible evidence. Watching scrubs get legendaries by afking through LFR does bother many people, whether people like you want to believe it or not.
    That is not at all an equivalent analogy. Is getting the legendary through LFR going to make the LFR raider's ilvl better than a world-first raider ?

    An equivalent analogy would be: Worker A, Worker B, Worker C. A does the most work and gets paid the most. C does the least work and gets paid the least. They all work on a specific job project for a full year and get the same bonus at the end of it. A still has made much more that year than B or C.

    Sure, maybe B and C did not work as hard on this one project as A (although they all devoted the same amount of time to this one project -- maybe not all projects combined, but this one project), but A still makes more money because A puts in more work all the time.

    One damn piece of gear, no matter how awesome, does almost nothing to erode the boundary between someone in full heroic and someone in full LFR. I'm never going to be bothered someone in full LFR gear but one legendary, and no one in full heroic gear should be bothered by my mostly-normal/semi-heroic gear even if I have a legendary, because the divide between these three groups is not defined by a single piece of gear.

    If you feel that one piece of gear somehow infringes upon your sense of self worth, you have bigger problems than LFR raiders getting a legendary. The fact that you use an analogy of a lazy coworker getting his pay doubled illustrates my point -- that you're blowing this completely out of proportion. A single legendary does not make an LFR raider better than a heroic raider. It does not make them equal to a heroic raider. It does not make them better or equal to a normal raider.
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  5. #225
    it comes from a quest, its not in anyway related to the difficulty level you raid on. It has nothing to do with LFR/normal/heroic. IF you run heroic dungeons and then go out and do a quest that would normally reward a blue item do you expect to get an epic because you raid heroics and expect people who only run LFR to get a green? no you don't, this is exactly the same.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    So when you're working your butt off but its your lazy coworker who gets a promotion that doubles his pay, this should not bother you at all since it "doesn't affect you."
    That's an awful analogy as the people in LFR do the same thing as a N/H raider, and we're all getting a legendary, not just the LFR raiders (so you AND you "lazy" coworker are both getting double pay). We grind out the last 6 bosses of ToT waiting for our Runestones, we grind out the whole thing waiting for the Secrets, even if its on a different scale. Likewise, I expect our legendary will be on a different scale in terms of ilvl and stats - a LFR legendary that will likely be 30 ilvls below everyone else's. (Kill Garrosh in SoO and loot an item that will be tagged for whatever difficulty he was killed in. You can then, based on this requirement, not loot or destroy the item and try to get a higher quality quest item, and your legendary will be based on that. Or just a straight up kill tagged on whatever difficulty, maybe. I dunno, but I expect there to be ilvl and stat differences).

    While some people just AFK their way through, most people do try, some like myself even go balls out theory crafting and always double check possible upgrades and tweaks to play at their very best regardless that they only do LFR (so no, the plural of anecdote is not data, and "But this one time I went through this guy was on follow and AFKing!" doesn't actually mean everyone is like that). If we've worked for it this long, and have gotten this far, we deserve our scaled-down-to-LFR-standards legendary just as you deserve your normal scaled legendary.

    If we all get the same ilvl, you MIGHT have a case. Still, you sound like someone who can't stand others getting the same nice things as you.
    Last edited by zenyatta; 2013-06-18 at 04:34 AM.

  7. #227
    I honestly don't think there will be so many people with the legendary around. The solo scenarios do require skill (if you think it doesn't, you probably have the skill already). People who get carried through LFR will have a hard time. Even the cloak I don't expect to see very often, imagine what crazy thing we will probably have to do in 5.4.

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    The solo scenarios do require skill (if you think it doesn't, you probably have the skill already).
    Yes and they are considerably harder for some spec choices than others.

  9. #229
    anyone who's able to get a legendary doing only LFR, having to put up with those awful sunday night groups, insane queues, afkers, people who refuse to play, people that don't buff, shamans/mages that don't BL, clueless tanks, healers that get less total healing than warlocks, et cetera, should get an uber awesomesauce master legendary weapon of insanity.

  10. #230
    Pandaren Monk Otiswhitaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haxlax View Post
    Is something legendary if half the server runs around with it?
    You're one of those people who thinks everyone has old legendaries, too, aren't you?

    Not that many people have these new things as you think :x There's millions of players who don't even own MoP.

  11. #231
    this legendary took more work than any other legendary. they were never hard to get anyway, exclusivity is stupid

  12. #232
    Given I've seen people struggle to get their meta gem with equal ilevel to me (as an LFR-raider myself), while I walked in and one-shot the Thunder Forge fight, let the solo parts be the benchmark and skill-check to see if it is worth it for you.

    Flex/Normal/Heroic raiders will have a leg up on LFR raiders, due to gear levels allowing them to get through mechanics faster. Those of us who have kept up with the progression of the chain, with the implicit statements that the Legendaries will be available to everyone... guess what? If you got the skill to do the solo parts, on top of the time to sink into the raid-progression/grindy parts, then you are rewarded. Hell, the people who earn it in LFR gear should be entitled to more: They did it with a gear handicap over those with a higher ilevel from "real raiding".

    I managed the Thunder Forge quest at about ilevel 505 at the time (and yes, I am a Ret Paladin). I've seen people with 515+ fail, horribly, at it. Individual skill sets the bar. Gear helps, but frankly, who's doing the harder version of the solo content, the LFR raider, or the Heroic one? Yeah, guess what, that would be the guy in the 530+ gear, not the one in 502 gear. The content scales down as your ilevel goes up, so those of you running Normal/Heroic for 5.2's content have an ADVANTAGE over the LFR raiders. If we are succeeding, it is by merits of more skill, not "LFR scrub". The fight an ilevel 505 Paladin does is the exact same as an ilevel 535 Paladin, the only difference is the 535 hits harder/faster, and thereby ends the fight quicker, has to focus on survival a little less.

    LFR might be the bottom-rung on raiding, but when the LFR raiders with actual skill stand up and do what you did with 20+ ilevels of better gear, it's a problem? REALLY? Elitism much? Not every LFR raider is a fail. Many of us just lack the time to raid with a guild (Hi, I work graveyard shift, starting at 9pm PST, 5 days a week, see a problem?), and use this as a welcome option. How about the guy who was a hardcore raider, still has the skill, but has a family now, so can't dedicate to a real guild, due to a 2 year old son/daughter? Should he be told that, despite dedicating the time he could to progress at a slower rate (reminder: LFR takes over 1.5 months to unlock all raid content that Normal/Heroic get right away or within 1-2 weeks, you do get it sooner, provided RNG doesn't hate you), knowing that his dedication would be paid off, because he can trump over the solo content due to skill and experience with his character, that now he gets nothing, due to changes in life?

    Everyone complains that "Blizzard caters to casuals"... many of the people who used to be of the hardcore, dedicated, playerbase of 6-8 years ago have grown up, have jobs, families, etc. They unfortunately don't always have the time for dedicated guilds, schedules, etc. But they are the LONG-TERM customers who have been paying every month for the last 6+ years... not those who "Oh, this tier is done, cancel sub til next patch", who are only still active right now cause RNG has hated on them for quest drops for said legendary chain.

    Legendary items were first and foremost pure, dumb, luck.
    Classic: Bindings of the Windseeker and Eye of Sulfuras, were both like 0.1% Drop chances or something. Similar for the quest starter for Aitesh (though that one I am a lot foggier on, never saw one finished during my time in Classic, as we never finished Naxx... 12/14 40-Man)
    TBC: RNG, and nothing else for the Warglaives or Thorai'dal.
    WotLK: I was raiding 10M during WotLK, so I didn't see them at all. Val'anyr was RNG on getting fragments to drop per boss, then you threw them at the last boss, and BAM, resolved, Legendary. Shadowmourne had a LITTLE bit of personal work (not much...) and then similar, but lengthier process to get completed.
    Cataclysm: Start seeing more solo-related work involved in the quest lines for both Dragonwrath and Fangs of the Father. Still had elements of RNG though as you progressed, getting the grindy element from bosses of that tier's raid.

    Now here we are... everyone can do the annoying grindy part. LFR is slowest, due to the nature of wing unlocks taking like 2 weeks per wing (so 6 weeks for full unlock), where as Normal is open fully at the start, Heroic the following week. Flex will likely to being on 1 week unlocks per wing, based on the description of it from the CMs so far. Maybe Heroic should have slightly better drop rates than the other formats for the quest items, but that is the grind. It doesn't take skill to finish, just RNG.

    Skill comes in from the solo components. I've heard of Hunters bitching a ton about the Wrathion cloak fight, with like ilevel 530 gear. If that's the case, I look forward to the fight, cause when I finish it at ilevel 515 or so, it will be hilarious.

    tldr; If you raid above LFR, you are actually nerfing the content of the legendary quest, by using higher gear for the solo fights. Don't talk about exclusivity when you get an advantage in the first place.
    Games are not necessarily "easier" today. You are just a better player.
    It takes more now to impress many gamers than it did 2-5 years ago, because so much has already been seen and done.
    Many players expect to be wow'd with every release of a beloved franchise.
    These are generally NOT the fault of the developers, but the fault of many players over-hyping and/or setting expectations too high.

  13. #233
    I think the important parts of the legendary questline, in terms of making the legendary difficult to obtain, are the solo quest portions. Those are the parts where you have to prove that you, as an individual, deserve that reward. And everyone, LFR, flex, Normal, and Heroic raiders, has to do the same solo portions. Given that those are harder than any of the raid portions of the questline, why does it matter if worse geared people complete the same solo content as you and get a legendary?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Well, I want the freedom to put poison in food and sell it to anyone I want and call it sugar. It's my freedom to do so, so you can't tell me no.

  14. #234
    I presume it will be the same especially when it turns out to be no weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyman64 View Post
    Given that those are harder than any of the raid portions of the questline,
    I'd state that even a normal encounter is harder than any of the solo components.

  15. #235
    I don't think anyone will receive a Legendary Weapon at the end of this quest chain as hinted in a blue post.

    You're certain it's a weapon? (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

    I reckon 5.4 will bring 'Chance on Hit' weapons from it's final boss as have previous expansions but with a twist, each with different ilvl according to difficulty as did HoF/ToES. I'm guessing the final part of the chain will be a new Legendary Gem (possibly upgraded Crystallized gem) that can only fit these new weapons as they will be 'Sha Touched'. Once socketed you unlock that weapons 'Chance on Hit' ability.

    This way there are no overpowered legendary weapons that everyone has relatively easy access too, There is no wasted 'Chance on Hit' items made in 5.4 that no-one wants, there is still RNG involved as you need the weapon to drop for you, and as others have said there is still some challenge in obtaining the final items as you have to do the solo scenario, having different ilvl weapons also gives something to strive for in normal/hard modes.

    On top of all this I think to make this new 'Chance on Hit' feel more legendary once procced you will transform into a Sha like creature. I don't trust The Black Prince, and feel like he is setting us up for something like that!

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    I presume it will be the same especially when it turns out to be no weapon.


    I'd state that even a normal encounter is harder than any of the solo components.
    Maybe in normal or heroic raid gear that is the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    Well, I want the freedom to put poison in food and sell it to anyone I want and call it sugar. It's my freedom to do so, so you can't tell me no.

  17. #237
    I really hope Blizzard will change the way they do things.

    People who dont put effort in raiding should NOT get legendary items, tier sets, mounts, pets.
    Just regular low level purples. Thats it!

    Right now there is no prestige in normal/heroic raiding.. SAME items with higher ilvl - horrible design.
    People who afk in lfr gets same gear - every piece of same gear, just lower ilvl.
    Thats how blizzard award real raiders in wow - same way they award afkers in LFR.

    LFR was created, so everyone could see content, right now people act like its raiding - its NOT.
    I could get better idea of raiding watching fatboss videos on youtube then participating in LFR.
    LFR is nothing close to raiding. NOTHING.

    I do LFR too on all my alts, and i m happy that i can catch up fast, whenever i like.
    But i dont ask for same rewards as normal raiding - thats bullshit.

    You can disagree, but deep inside u know - lfr is NOT same thing as raiding - its fast way to gear up, nothing else. Nothing else.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Redriot View Post
    Legendaries quit being legends when 10 mans were able to get them. Thank Firelands for the fall of legendaries.
    Lol random melodramatic kids who make observations with no substance, that's you. You didn't own the staff at 85 and plz don't try and lie to me. The FL legendary chain took fking ages to do, you really don't have a clue boi. Even at the very end of cata there wasn't an exceptional amount of ppl walking around with them so yeh they were legendary. Whether they were obtainable in 10, 25 or 40 it doesnt matter at all.......they are all difficult to obtain at the time.

  19. #239
    first - yes it will grant you legendary. This expansion for sure. Blizzard doesn't like to make game breaking changes mid xpack - and saying that you've worked on your legendary questline for whole expansion and then suddenly can't finish it - would just cause uprising and one of the greatest shitstorms ever.. Remember what happened when they "broke" "The insane" rep grind by removing shand'ralar.. No the Wrathion questline will work the same as it was working since start.

    Second - should LFR give legendaries? Yes, I think yes. In it's current form, where getting to last step requires a lot of grinding and time commitment, it's a good way of getting somehow special item.
    And the fact that it's so common makes it way easier to balance the game around it. ATM Blizz can safely assume that at each stage of the quest majority of people doing end game content will have their legendaries. That means that when they balance classes they can assume that they will have those items. This mitigates the problem of legendaries being too good to the point that character with it was stupidly OP, or rather one without it was stupidly broken.. Even in Cataclysm - if you were a caster and didn't have your staff, just because your GMs sister's boyfriend rerolled a holy priest - you were subpar caster with no way into getting into good guild.
    Today - if you commit your time and work on the legendary questline - you will get it, so if you're behind it's just your fault. What's more since everyone is now eligible for a legendary - their power gain is similar, no one gets ridiculously stronger just because he got orange item.
    I really think that current legendary model is the best one for game's balance - we don't want anouther shadowmourne DKs roflstomping everyone in PvE and PvP again.
    In the end it's a multiplayer game - and balance between classes should be maintained as much as possible. With old (vanilla, BC) legendary models it's impossible to balance the game with those items in game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
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    ^------True story!!

  20. #240
    Most likely there will be different versions of the legendary that you will be able to upgrade. The first version obtainable from LFR and then several upgraded versions, the best one only something that heroic raiders will be able to get.
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