[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion

[luc54]

It might be intended. I doubt they screw up that badly, it will require some code change in order for mastery to go back to EF. Unless someone actually copy pasted the live version of code when they buffed it, I don't see it being non intentinal. Well lot of bugs have happened in PTR, let's just hope and wait for confirmation.

[Freia]

It might be intended. I doubt they screw up that badly, it will require some code change in order for mastery to go back to EF. Unless someone actually copy pasted the live version of code when they buffed it, I don't see it being non intentinal. Well lot of bugs have happened in PTR, let's just hope and wait for confirmation.

You are giving them way too much credit. It is highly possible that it is just a mistake and they have made much bigger ones before.

[luc54]

You are giving them way too much credit. It is highly possible that it is just a mistake and they have made much bigger ones before.

Well yes, I just wanted to be abit optimistic about things. It would seem odd for spell to randomly change, specially considering when they havent implemented the changes to divine plea yet. I was going to test if the +use trinket was going to work with the new plea (which it probably won't).

[luc54]

It works with druids innervate so I don't see why not.

I hope it can be combined with mana tide then as well so we'd get back around 240k mana trinket + 18k spirit shaman mana tide every 3 mins. That kinda reminds me with the on uses spirit trinkets in t11.

[Floopa]

Mastery: Illuminated Healing no longer activates from periodic healing effects.

Divine Plea no longer reduces the amount of healing done, and now restores mana based on the Paladin’s Spirit.

Guardian of the Ancient Kings (Holy version) now deals additional healing based on any heal cast by the Paladin for the 15 seconds for the duration of the spell. The Paladin also has 10% additional haste for the duration that the ability is active.

Holy Insight now increases the effectiveness of Eternal Flame, Light of Dawn, and Word of Glory by 35%. Effectiveness of other heals are still increased by 25%.

Source: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/101...y_12-7_12_2013

[Tiberria]

Maybe they want to see how we are compared to other healers (since most others have got buffed) WITH EF still applying IH. Since the other 2 talents in that tier are still most likely going to be ignored, they might want to see what our overall healing is like on the ptr and make adjustments accordingly with regards to taking the mastery part away from EF again and then making further adjustments.

The only healers that have really received substantial buffs are Druids and Shaman. Monk and Priest changes have been pretty minor. Putting EF back on IH, along with the other buffs announced today would be more than enough.

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I hope it can be combined with mana tide then as well so we'd get back around 240k mana trinket + 18k spirit shaman mana tide every 3 mins. That kinda reminds me with the on uses spirit trinkets in t11.

There is no way short term Spirit procs scaling with Divine Plea or Innervate is going to go live or not be nerfed immediately if it does. The T11 Spirit proc thing is the reason they removed those procs from MTT, and also had to remove them from Rapture a couple of patches ago. They already removed the MTT-Innervate interaction on the PTR. If they are going to allow the interaction, they need to revert the Rapture and MTT changes as well. There is no way it would be balanced to allow 2 of 6 healers to effectively get 250,000+ mana every 3 minutes from a trinket.

[mcbubble]

With the numerous buffs we just received (especially if GoaK works similar to Ascendance and the new DP works with spirit procs) along with EF hots proccing mastery again I believe we will be in a decent place come 5.4. We'll have to see in testing.

I still wouldn't mind seeing 4second HS, but I don't think it's going to happen.

You really are clueless.

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The only healers that have really received substantial buffs are Druids and Shaman. Monk and Priest changes have been pretty minor. Putting EF back on IH, along with the other buffs announced today would be more than enough.

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There is no way short term Spirit procs scaling with Divine Plea or Innervate is going to go live or not be nerfed immediately if it does. The T11 Spirit proc thing is the reason they removed those procs from MTT, and also had to remove them from Rapture a couple of patches ago. They already removed the MTT-Innervate interaction on the PTR. If they are going to allow the interaction, they need to revert the Rapture and MTT changes as well. There is no way it would be balanced to allow 2 of 6 healers to effectively get 250,000+ mana every 3 minutes from a trinket.

That's probably due to the fact that they don't need buffs. If anything disc needs nerfs.

[Tiberria]

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 13m

The periodic of Eternal Flame still should not proc Holy paladin mastery on PTR. If it is, that is a bug.

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 12m

To continue, we don't want every paladin playing like a Resto druid, and honestly neither should you paladins. EF shouldn't be mandatory.

Updated GC tweets

[Deleted]

Updated GC tweets

The guy is clueless. If he doesn't want us playing like resto druids remove the hot and add a mechanic that refreshes IH for 30 secs when you cast EF on the target.

If he doesn't want us shield spamming, give us the burst healing and toolkit to do something else perhaps? Shield spamming is only mandatory because we're SO BAD in every other department.

[Flaring]

Well, so much for that.

You really are clueless.

Coincidentally, you really are a jackass that thinks whatever they say is right and no other opinions matter. Pretty obvious looking at everything you've posted in this thread.

Back on topic, this means we should expect more LoD, WoG & EF buffs eventually (based on what they've said previously).

Don't call other posters Jackasses. -Krekko

[Shuttle]

Are they going to at least buff the range and targets hit by LoD?

[mcbubble]

Well, so much for that.

Coincidentally, you really are a jackass that thinks whatever they say is right and no other opinions matter. Pretty obvious looking at everything you've posted in this thread.

Back on topic, this means we should expect more LoD, WoG & EF buffs eventually (based on what they've said previously).

Um...no? I don't know your experience, but I hate when someone posts:
We'll be okay in 5.4
When you have done the math? or have you done anything in the PTR experience to back this?
Try not to jump to conclusions please.
I don't mean to side-rail this thread...some constructive stuff going on in here.

[Absintheminded]

Are they going to at least buff the range and targets hit by LoD?

Short answer? No, unless we bitch, and gripe, and complain about it on the official forums and twitter accounts until they buff it about 25% of what we ask for. Then they'll be "apprehensive" about the change and "nervous" that it will be too much. Just read all of the GC tweets from the last two months that deal directly with Holy paladins. You will see exactly what I'm talking about. They have absolutely no idea the current state that 5.4 will put us in and think that these very minor and playstyle-specific changes are dangerously game-breaking.


HMPH.

[Freia]

Well, so much for that.



Coincidentally, you really are a jackass that thinks whatever they say is right and no other opinions matter. Pretty obvious looking at everything you've posted in this thread.

Back on topic, this means we should expect more LoD, WoG & EF buffs eventually (based on what they've said previously).

Based on what they said previously we should only expect buffs to our single target heals. I really do not think they know what we need or what they want us to be. If they can't see how just making small percentage buffs to our throughput will not help they really do not pay attention to the numbers in our healing.

The only healers that have really received substantial buffs are Druids and Shaman. Monk and Priest changes have been pretty minor. Putting EF back on IH, along with the other buffs announced today would be more than enough.

When people mention disc buffs they are really referring to their 4p tier bonus and the trinket lowering the spirit shell cooldown.

[Diatenium]

The blanket buff to all our Holy Power-based healing spells is indicative that they're not prepared to alter the healing proportions between these spells at this time. The fact that they have conceded to this buff is also indicative that they have no future plans for these abilities for the remainder of the expansion--barring certain circumstances.

I often see people complaining about LoD, often framed around them wanting it to affect more targets, specifically in 25 mans--The implicit sentiment being that it operates like healing tide or tranquility. The problem with this sentiment is that fails to show understanding for why these spells behave that way; those abilities are cooldowns and they want to be sure they remain proportionately effective in larger raids, whereas LoD is not a cooldown but rather a rotational ability.

I'll repeat what I've said earlier, people are often expecting LoD to be competitive with EF, but LoD isn't balanced around EF--moreover, in 10-mans--where you're less inclined to rely on aoe healing--a talent that makes your single-target HP-dump better is going to invalidate LoD's use, whether it refreshes IH or not. I'm fine with a single target bias in this situation, EF or no.

[Deleted]

The blanket buff to all our Holy Power-based healing spells is indicative that they're not prepared to alter the healing proportions between these spells at this time. The fact that they have conceded to this buff is also indicative that they have no future plans for these abilities for the remainder of the expansion--barring certain circumstances.

I often see people complaining about LoD, often framed around them wanting it to affect more targets, specifically in 25 mans--The implicit sentiment being that it operates like healing tide or tranquility. The problem with this sentiment is that fails to show understanding for why these spells behave that way; those abilities are cooldowns and they want to be sure they remain proportionately effective in larger raids, whereas LoD is not a cooldown but rather a rotational ability.

I'll repeat what I've said earlier, people are often expecting LoD to be competitive with EF, but LoD isn't balanced around EF--moreover, in 10-mans--where you're less inclined to rely on aoe healing--a talent that makes your single-target HP-dump better is going to invalidate LoD's use, whether it refreshes IH or not. I'm fine with a single target bias in this situation, EF or no.

LoD is actually better in 10 man then in 25, as it will cover a large part of the raid. The problem with LoD is it sucks. This is not something new, LoD has never been a great healing ability but right now, after blizzard has nerfed Holy Radiance so much at the start of beta, the 3 Holy Power ability has to rock.

[Diatenium]

LoD is actually better in 10 man then in 25, as it will cover a large part of the raid. The problem with LoD is it sucks. This is not something new, LoD has never been a great healing ability but right now, after blizzard has nerfed Holy Radiance so much at the start of beta, the 3 Holy Power ability has to rock.

Sucks compared to what? Superficial math puts LoD at superior for 3+ players over WoG, which I believe is the optimum balance. Perhaps compared to our other healing abilities? This buff should thusly help alleviate that, but even then these spells cost no mana and as such aren't supposed to give you a lot in terms of numbers.

[Kyuuseishu]

Well Blizz's reasoning on LoD is its healing total only has to outheal WoG, which it does and as such it is very doubtful we'll see much change to it >.<

[Deleted]

Sucks compared to what? Superficial math puts LoD at superior for 3+ players over WoG, which I believe is the optimum balance. Perhaps compared to our other healing abilities? This buff should thusly help alleviate that, but even then these spells cost no mana and as such aren't supposed to give you a lot in terms of numbers.

It sucks compared to what it needs to do. It sucks compared to abilities like Rem+Uplift, Rej+Mushrooms.
You're wrong when you say they're not meant to give a lot in terms of numbers, that's the while point i was making above. 3 Holy Power abilities are meant to be the most powerful output at our disposal. That or just undo Radiance to its Catalcysm version,delete EF and we'll use LoD like back then

[Freia]

The blanket buff to all our Holy Power-based healing spells is indicative that they're not prepared to alter the healing proportions between these spells at this time. The fact that they have conceded to this buff is also indicative that they have no future plans for these abilities for the remainder of the expansion--barring certain circumstances.

I often see people complaining about LoD, often framed around them wanting it to affect more targets, specifically in 25 mans--The implicit sentiment being that it operates like healing tide or tranquility. The problem with this sentiment is that fails to show understanding for why these spells behave that way; those abilities are cooldowns and they want to be sure they remain proportionately effective in larger raids, whereas LoD is not a cooldown but rather a rotational ability.

I'll repeat what I've said earlier, people are often expecting LoD to be competitive with EF, but LoD isn't balanced around EF--moreover, in 10-mans--where you're less inclined to rely on aoe healing--a talent that makes your single-target HP-dump better is going to invalidate LoD's use, whether it refreshes IH or not. I'm fine with a single target bias in this situation, EF or no.

No one says LoD should behave like tranquility or htt. And you do realize they gave Healing Rain(a none raid cooldown spell) the same treatment(more healing in 25m)? Why do you keep insisting on posting when you just keep showing you really don't know what is going on?