So What Does The Alliance Want?

[Deleted]

I just want some focus on the most important race.

The gnomes..

[Stormdash]

*Places hunter's mark on Gnomes*

Will that do?

[mvaliz]

I just want some focus on the most important race.

The gnomes..

They already gave you the ability to NOT swim in the Black Morass like everybody else...

...damnit! How much more do you guys want!?

:P

[apepi]

Okay guys I think I know what you want.. We will give you guys Blood Elves, You have been asking for it for a long time, and we will take the dwarves off your hands.

[Brendanb]

Except for Kargath, Bloodvenom Point, Warsong Lumber Camp and Sun Point.

You see, the thing with "Blizzard writes the story" is, it works both ways. The Horde victories are not the players victories so i don't see for what you really need your "giant screw you" for since we did nothing to you.

Kargath was lost to the cataclysm, Bloodvenom point was lost to YOURSELVES, and the Lumber Camp is literally like any other quest hub with no lasting effects. Sun point isn't even a place.

Our "giant screw you" has nothing to do with the horde players, you said yourself that Horde victories are not player victories so by the same means Horde losses are not player losses. I don't see the problem with giving the Alliance a win if it doesn't effect you so much.

[Yriel]

Kargath was lost to the cataclysm, Bloodvenom point was lost to YOURSELVES, and the Lumber Camp is literally like any other quest hub with no lasting effects. Sun point isn't even a place.

Our "giant screw you" has nothing to do with the horde players, you said yourself that Horde victories are not player victories so by the same means Horde losses are not player losses. I don't see the problem with giving the Alliance a win if it doesn't effect you so much.

I meant Freewind Post in 1k needles. It was lost to the Grimtotem. I must have messed it up with sun rock that is technically still there but doesn't have any quests or anything related to it. Yes most of the Horde losses were to NPCs or the Cataclysm. But the alliance players tend to include them too like with Auberdine so i think it's fair if horde players do it, too.

And as i wrote i would have no problem with reducing Crossroads to a crater or restoring Gilneas but do you really think that would change anything concerning the complain threads ?
Would Crossroads being gone be the big victory the alliance complainers are waiting for ? I guess not, especially if you read threads like the one in the official forums earlier.

[Lynneiah]

Know what I also want? When something happens that has a lasting, visible effect on the game world, have that event also visible in the game world. I feel scenarios can play an important role here.
Like, instead of going to Southshore, and see that the Forsaken plagued it to oblivion, there would be a scenario where you go with the Forsaken team that plagues Southshore to oblivion.

[GareBear]

If you want equity what you well get is a big ole' pile boring as collateral damage; you get a grade-school essay about Azeroth. The best you can hope for is that the pendulum swings back the other direction, and does not rot in the middle.

From a storytelling standpoint I believe Blizzard has written themselves into a corner. The Horde won't lose because Thrall is some sort of messiah (Go'el is even the Hebrew term for 'redeemer'); the writing is horde-centric and that is a matter of fact at this point. The Alliance can't lose because then you alienate their playerbase (and let's just face it, there is no good Alliance writing going on).

When you have players playing both sides and you try to satisfy both you sacrifice story to do so. What we have is very contrived and forced plot points that ultimately lead to stagnation. I hope you all like those green participation ribbons, because that is what you are going to get.

[Enosh]

you know what i would like
for it not being possible to remove the alliance from a story and it still being the same story

for SoO there is basically no difference is the alliance exist or not, the horde would still rebel and the horde would still win without it
in a sense the alliance doesn't exist atm, they are completely irrelevant to any story progression

[Daswolfen]

Not our fault your incompetent

You had a chance to turn stonard into dust but decide better to withdraw when you had the town at your mercy

You mean not our fault that the WoW developers are all Horde Fanboys and can never let anything bad happen to their faction?

---------- Post added 2013-06-21 at 11:50 PM ----------

Okay guys I think I know what you want.. We will give you guys Blood Elves, You have been asking for it for a long time, and we will take the dwarves off your hands.

Umm... how about no.

You can have the Night Elves or Worgen, we get the Tauren and Dalaran with zero Horde presence parked over Theramore's crater.

[mjolnir1122]

As someone who doesn't pvp actually nothing would change for me. And why would it be a single-player RPG, all the i people i play with would still be there if the whole Alliance should quit.

I don't PvP either, but I'd be damn pissed if the Horde just disappeared or they all quit. And it would be a single player rpg because how many people would be left in the game if the alliance all quit or were removed from the game? Especially since you PvE, it just becomes quest until level cap, story is over, done. You can converse and play with friends just like you can do with many single-player rpg's that have a multiplayer feature, but everything becomes one sided. Instead of an ongoing war with another faction it would end up revolving solely around your character and his/her triumphs. An MMO is immersive. Theres competition both within your own faction and within the other. Both sides give and take, and theres a much larger story than just what's happening to your character.

I don't think that's true. What was Horde based in Cataclysm? Don't say Thrall, he was neutral. I actually thought the Alliance had a stronger storyline in Twilight Highlands, the Wildhammer were more interesting and had greater significance than the Dragonmaw (let's not forget the fact the Dwarf leadership got a big shakeup). Also you get an introduction to Anduin who until then had been a generic background NPC.

And MoP is only "Horde based" insofar as the last patch revolves around unseating Garrosh, which is something both sides have a strong interest in. If Garrosh being a big character makes it a "Horde expansion" (I don't think that term even makes sense) then it's only because the villain drives the plot.

Illidan was a Night Elf, so was TBC an "Alliance expansion"? Was Wrath? The whole thing revolved around Arthas, the Prince of Lordaeron. It's silly. The plot does not have to feature Horde and Alliance characters and concepts exactly equally. All of WoW's content has had both Horde and Alliance lore.

Ofcourse there is both Alliance and Horde lore in every expansion. What I'm speaking to is the depth that goes into that lore. Thrall was not entirely neutral in Cataclysm. In the Goblin starting zone he killed quite a number of Alliance soldiers (with good reason). But if he was neutral, why did he recruit the Goblins into the Horde? Why did he send them to Garrosh to get settled in? He could have just as easily sent them to the earthen ring for refuge.

The only time he was actually friendly towards the Alliance was in the hour of twilight dungeons, when he desperately needed our help. As for your comparisons, Illidan was corrupted long before the Alliance was formed. He was not even technically a Night Elf when we come up against him, he was a demon. Arthas was no longer part of the Alliance by any means when we went up against him, he was the Lich King, so again he had no ties to the Alliance when we came up against him. The only thing that could be considered Alliance-centric was the fact that Tirion Fordring dealt the final blow, and even then it wouldn't be considered an "Alliance expansion" since the Argent tournament was a joint effort and the only shining Alliance moment was the final blow. Cataclysm revolved heavily around Thrall, with extensive character development with im going from warchief of the horde to the world shaman, but his driving motive was to ensure that the Horde still had a world to live in since those were his people, and he resumed his ties with the Horde in 5.1. So unlike the examples you gave, he is still very much affiliated with the Horde, and was still affiliated with them even during his time as the world shaman.

MoP is horde based much moreso than just the last patch. The main focus of patches 5.0-5.2 were mostly on the Pandaren and Pandaria, but the brewing storm was being built up since launch. The entire expansion has been both the Horde and Alliance focusing on dethroning the current Horde leader. What makes it a "Horde expansion" even moreso is that this is the Horde's rebellion. The Alliance is just lending a hand to defeat a greater evil. We didn't plan anything, or have any other part in staging the final assault. All we were told is to come by sea, that's it. So the main lore points of this expansion that did not focus on Pandaria instead focused on the Horde struggle instead. On top of that, the character development has been absolutely stunning for the Horde. Vol'Jin and Lorthemar have had some serious development, while Baine has gotten some love too. And ofcourse, Garrosh, since he is quite technically still a Horde character, has gotten alot of attention as well, allowing us to see him going from a headstrong warmonger to a power-drunk psychopath. Varian and Jaina were the only 2 significant developments on the alliance side, with Varian's being pretty stale (just going from a bloodlust warrior to a diplomatic strategist). Moira got a little but of attention via a scenario, but that's pretty much it on Alliance character development.

So no, ofcourse the storyline does not have to be equal or down the middle. That's what I was saying. The point I'm trying to make is that were now starting to tip heavily to one side, giving Horde pretty much all of the focus and attention while using the Alliance as a filler just to throw Alliance players a bone. You can tell even by the quests the difference in emphasis on both factions. I do enjoy both sides very much, but it would be nice to see the Alliance in the spotlight for once instead of being the afterthought.

[Talen]

To ask why allies complain, is to ask why the leaves fall. It is their nature.

Just as it is in the nature of Horde players to complain.

Put it another way - there is a huge amount of discontent amongst Alliance players and that content exists for a reason.

You have to ask yourself - WHY? Why are so many players from so many backgrounds, expressing so much discontent for so long? Is it so difficult for Horde fanboys to accept that the Alliance actually has a pretty good reason to feel shafted? Or is that the Horde are afraid that if the Alliance players get some story, then the Horde will get shafted in return?

It doesn't matter what blizz does, you will still complain.

Blizzard would need to do something with the Alliance story first before that statement can be tested.

EJL

[Yriel]

I don't PvP either, but I'd be damn pissed if the Horde just disappeared or they all quit. And it would be a single player rpg because how many people would be left in the game if the alliance all quit or were removed from the game? Especially since you PvE, it just becomes quest until level cap, story is over, done. You can converse and play with friends just like you can do with many single-player rpg's that have a multiplayer feature, but everything becomes one sided. Instead of an ongoing war with another faction it would end up revolving solely around your character and his/her triumphs. An MMO is immersive. Theres competition both within your own faction and within the other. Both sides give and take, and theres a much larger story than just what's happening to your character.

I don't really get this because if you exclude pvp you have no interaction with the players from the other side whatsoever. Not while questing, not while doing instances, not while raiding. You only see them running around sometimes and that's it.
So how would the story end if the others side players would quit ? I'd still have all the dungeons, dailies, raids, pet battles, whatever. It wouldn't change my playstyle even the slightest if the Alliance would be a NPC faction. Same with the Horde.
I don't compete with the other faction, i can't even talk to them. And i'm not at war with the others side players, the NPC Horde is. I don't fight the alliance players ever.

[Talen]

And please tell me what happens to the game if the entirety of the Alliance was gone?

PvP takes a hit....
Die hard Alliance players who can't stand the Horde would leave the game

That's about it. As a player faction, the Alliance is essentially meaningless with a very limited impact on the game storyline. Without them in place, the Horde would simply have to fight the PvE enemies such as the Burning Legion or Azshara.

Conversley- remove the Horde and the Alliance loses its reason to exist. Why? Because Blizzard hasn't actually provided them with a goal or a purpose of it own.

EJL

[RicardoZ]

The only thing that bothers me is the outright lying from Chris Metzen. At Blizzcon 2011 he said something to the effect of the Alliance having been pushed around for too long and he admitted it was unequal, but in Mists the Alliance was going to start kicking some serious tail.

And now, here we are, having lost Theramore and once again having the climax of the entire expansion centered around the Horde and an Orc specifically, and we haven't gotten a damn thing out of the entire expansion. Again, all we've done is lose.

But honestly, that's fine. If they want to write a story where the Alliance is constantly on the defense, great. Just be true to your word from 2 years ago and let us at least conquer something, do something important, and break the cycle of what you yourself has admitted is inequality.

[Wyrt]

The alliance needs it's own internal storylines that have little to do with the horde.

The alliance needs to not be completely dominated by humans. Let night elves be night elves. Let worgen, gnomes, and draenei actually have a part in the storyline. The unity "theme" is bad and boring, it doesn't fit with the alliance and it just makes the alliance story bland and boring when everyone is just a different colored human. Make the alliance an actual alliance, not a unified nation. Let different races be different, they have different cultures, they should clash, they shouldn't agree on everything. Lawful good is incredibly boring.

I mostly play draenei and I'm really not sure why I should even care about the alliance. Draenei have very little alliance lore and I really don't see what the draenei are getting out of the alliance except for enemies. Enemies that they need to be allied with to defeat the Legion.

Alliance needs a lot of work and most of it doesn't involve the horde or blowing up horde shit.

[RicardoZ]

What the Alliance needs is equal attention in the game's writing. Right now it's painfully obvious that the major plot developments are written from the Horde perspective, with the Alliance side scribbled in afterwards wherever it can be made to fit.

The only way to have this happen is to remove Chris Metzen from his post. I don't think that's in the cards, unfortunately.

---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 10:01 AM ----------

The alliance needs it's own internal storylines that have little to do with the horde.

The alliance needs to not be completely dominated by humans. Let night elves be night elves. Let worgen, gnomes, and draenei actually have a part in the storyline. The unity "theme" is bad and boring, it doesn't fit with the alliance and it just makes the alliance story bland and boring when everyone is just a different colored human. Make the alliance an actual alliance, not a unified nation. Let different races be different, they have different cultures, they should clash, they shouldn't agree on everything. Lawful good is incredibly boring.

I mostly play draenei and I'm really not sure why I should even care about the alliance. Draenei have very little alliance lore and I really don't see what the draenei are getting out of the alliance except for enemies. Enemies that they need to be allied with to defeat the Legion.

Alliance needs a lot of work and most of it doesn't involve the horde or blowing up horde shit.

This is also true, but again, would require somebody out in Irvine to sit down and write it. They won't, and at this point they're all so gummed up in the Horde, I'm not sure they can. I'd love for them to prove me wrong, though.

The only thing I'll take issue with is that Night Elves haven't been allowed to come into their own. That is patently false. They have received much more lore time than any other Alliance race, humans included. Just look at how much Hyjal/Cenarion Circle/Druid stuff is in the game, they pretty much dominate all of that. Even "Wolfheart", a novel that was supposedly about human leader Varian Wrynn, was, in reality, mostly centered around the Night Elves fighting the Orcs in Ashenvale.

[Northem]

Do you really want a list of what the Alliance wants/needs?

In brief and in broad strokes we demand:

• The Kingdom of Kul Tiras with his powerful naval fleet commanded by his Lord Admiral Tandred Proudmoore
• The kingdom of Stromgarde with the return of Danath Trollbane to stop the Forsaken advance
• All the exiled high elves reunited and led by Alleria Windrunner being an important part of the Alliance (and the High Elves as a playable race)
• Turalyon's return and the restoration of the Order of the Silver Hand headed by him. Making the paladins the representative class of the Alliance and Turalyon their champion
• The apparition of Queen Calia and her Scarlet Dawn to fight for reclaim Lordaeron
• Greater involvement of the Kirin Tor and Dalaran in the affairs of the Alliance, landing Dalaran over the Theramore ruins
• More personality and self-sufficiency for all the non-human races, unlinking them somewhat from the Stormwind humans (Varian) making them less human dependent (specially the Nigh Elves) and giving them a greater role and prominence (for example making the Night Elves recover Ashenvale)
• Related to the previous point, more lore for all races, not just for the humans of Stormwind, with an emphasis on the forgotten races (gnomes, draenei, etc)
• Reclaiming the Kingdom of Gilneas for their legitimate owners, which are not mascots of the night elves. Greymane City as a new fully capital city for the Alliance
• Reconstruction of the district destroyed by Deathwing in Stormwind (perhaps making a elven district as "capital" for the Quel'dorei)
• Making gnomes having finally have a decent capital: conquer Gnomeregan or re-found it elsewhere (a flyer technological robo-city for example)
• Expel the Dark Iron dwarves of the Alliance or at least create some conflicts with them. They have been a treacherous and dark race and an enemy of the other dwarf clans for generations, thus they can not be trusted of day to the next
• ...

What else can you think of?

[Lynneiah]

Making the paladins the representative class of the Alliance

Eh. I'll pass, thanks.

[Northem]

Eh. I'll pass, thanks.

Why? Are you a member of the Horde perhaps? Then you should not be here ...

Anyway, the Paladins have been the flagship of the Alliance since Warcraft 2 as the Death Knights were for the Horde.
In fact until recently, the Paladins were exclusive to the Alliance as the Shamans were to the Horde.