Tanks in Rated Play and Holinka

[Deleted]

Healers don't belong in PvP, end of story. They're annoying to deal with, even if they can't kill anyone by themselves, the fact that killing one takes so god damn long and doesn't pose any challenge is just frustrating. Disc priests, for example, can live an extremely long time. They'll never kill me, it isn't possible, I can out damage their DPS, but they have so many CDs that regen so much health that killing one takes far longer than it should if I don't have offensive CDs up. It's just annoying, and has no place in PvP.

I can say the same about another role.

[FAILoZOFF]

they should also remove healers from pvp, making every class have some kind of heal/survivability - as playing a rogue with no healer can be fine, trying to do that same as warrior would be completely un-fun

[Deleted]

they should also remove healers from pvp, making every class have some kind of heal/survivability - as playing a rogue with no healer can be fine, trying to do that same as warrior would be completely un-fun

More like remove all forms of healing from hybrids and pures. Only a healer should be able to heal. Nothing else.
If you removed healers from pvp then it would be even more of a brainless zergfest. It would be even more boring than it is currently.

[Baracuda]

Tanks can fudge off in PvP, good riddance.

[PaladinBash]

I remember in Wrath as a Prot Paladin where I couldn't die and could just frisbee people (especially healers) into the dirt over and over and over again. Hell it even lasted a while into early Cata when Word of Glory was obscenely overpowered for Prot PVP. Those were great amazing days for me. Boohoo cry me a river if you were on the receiving end of that. Booooooooohoooooooo. Every class/role gets to be overpowered for a while, that was the age of Prot Paladins (and Blood DKs in Cata). Healers were ridiculously overpowered for most of MoP (and still are), it's just that Warriors were just so ridiculously overpowered that nobody seemed to care. Healers are still overpowered in 3s by the retarded thinking of "well you should be able to heal through the burst of 3 people with no support". How is that different thinking than "as a tank, it takes 3 people to kill you". Tanks would still have less impact on a 3s team than a healer in that case. What do they do? Not die. What do healers do? Not die and keep other people alive. Can't see the logic in it.

TL;DR yeah tanks were OP in PVP but PVP is something where everything is OP now and then so excluding tanks from their turn of making everyone else mad is unfair

[FAILoZOFF]

More like remove all forms of healing from hybrids and pures. Only a healer should be able to heal. Nothing else.
If you removed healers from pvp then it would be even more of a brainless zergfest. It would be even more boring than it is currently.

how about a no? i prefer everyone to be viable without pocket healer healing their asses while they can go all out. not to mention how hard it is to balance this whole healer concept crap. oh your idea would effectively kill most nonhealer 2v2 comps- sounds very funny

@PaladinBash
anytime tanks were "viable" they caused a LOT of problems, be it WotLK prot warr/pala, cata any tank (lol veng) or to some extent mop bloods

+most retarded thing about tanks in pvp is that they ARE killable, but only casters + eventually hunters as they are all ranged, melees- specially warriors and rogues are just f up for no reason

++oh and most of the time ppl opting for prot pvp are random scrubnubs that have no chance with anyone playing proper spec, so they roll tanks allowing them to "own" at least meleers while backpedalling

DO NOT WANT

[Deleted]

Tanks were viable in Wrath because they did absurd damage and in the prot paladin and warrior case still had very strong utility. Personally I think it was extremely cheesy, and I'd prefer it not to happen again, but if you want to bring it back you would have to remove vengeance and make their damage scale differently, while revamping the talent system.
If you want to play tank in PvP go ahead. Your role is to tank damage, which you are currently capable off. Wether tanks deserve more utility is argueable. But giving tanks back the absurd amount of damage is nowhere near acceptable. That's not what your role is about.

[apepi]

But what was wrong with the model that you brought one tank to hold the flag? I am not talking about having a tank for damage(which everyone is complaining about) but to actually be a tank.

[Thallidomaniac]

But what was wrong with the model that you brought one tank to hold the flag? I am not talking about having a tank for damage(which everyone is complaining about) but to actually be a tank.

It would draw matches to a stalemate because the tank would have several healers, making even the Brutal Assault debuffs unnoticeable.

[Korgoth]

But what was wrong with the model that you brought one tank to hold the flag? I am not talking about having a tank for damage(which everyone is complaining about) but to actually be a tank.

It was soul crushingly boring. Why anyone wants to do that is beyond me. Step 1, walk across the field, Step 2 dodge the rogue, Step 3 grab the flag, Step 4 wait Step 5 wait Step 6 wait Step 7 wait Step 8 wait Step 9 wait Step 10 Cap the Flag, unless your offense sucked in which case bend over and spread cheeks.

[FAILoZOFF]

But what was wrong with the model that you brought one tank to hold the flag? I am not talking about having a tank for damage(which everyone is complaining about) but to actually be a tank.

in random bgs when one team got a tank holding the flag and pocket healer to back him up chamces are high its going to take a lot of time and luck to other team to take it back
but as not many ppl care about random
in rbg it only caused situations like Korgoth descibed, boooring- i much better prefer faster gameplay when damage dealers take the flag +its usually more fun too as they have means to be very tricky with them but squishy at that same time

and as i said before im all for removing healers from pvp too

[gestapo]

I can say the same about another role.

Sounds like a L2P issue.

[Deleted]

Sounds like a L2P issue.

Thank you for your intelligent and highly contributive post.

[gestapo]

Thank you for your intelligent and highly contributive post.

You're welcome.

I was quite obviously trolling you, and I agree that disc is too strong right now, but this discussion is about tanks in pvp.

From your first comment:

Tanks aren't allowed to have fun in pvp, only dps and healers.

I gather that you play a tank and you're upset that they aren't viable in pvp. I have at least 2 to 3 tanks at all times across my 8 toons and I would like to pvp on their tank specs as well. However, too many of the things that make them 'viable' make the mechanics completely OP as well. It's just too hard to balance, as echoed by most of the responses in this thread.

Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
That's because for a tank to have fun in PvP, things have to be boring for everyone else.

As opposed to healers which make things very fun.

So you also have personal beef with healers. Is this because you have trouble killing them in your tank spec? If so, don't be surprised. If you're having trouble 1v1, that's understandable. Anything else is a L2P issue. Disc is definitely too strong right now, but let's not get sidetracked in this thread.

[apepi]

It was soul crushingly boring. Why anyone wants to do that is beyond me. Step 1, walk across the field, Step 2 dodge the rogue, Step 3 grab the flag, Step 4 wait Step 5 wait Step 6 wait Step 7 wait Step 8 wait Step 9 wait Step 10 Cap the Flag, unless your offense sucked in which case bend over and spread cheeks.

You can cc the healers, you can decide how many you need to defend and how much pressure you need on o, instead of just running the flag and hope you do not get ganked. One of these provides much more tactics then the other. Why do you wait? Don't think you can kill a tank?

[Kazgrel]

Prot warriors were briefly god mode for pvp in Wrath right near the end of season 7, iirc, where you could get Deathbringer's Will along with other armor pen gear/gems and just completely wreck folks all the while being ridiculously durable, even if using pve dps gear.

@ TOR pvp: Rofl. I thought Blizzard was bad at pvp design/balance. Bioware trumped them, hands down.

[Rucati]

I can say the same about another role.

Except no, you can't. You just look stupid. Killing other roles requires some effort, or a challenge, or you have to use skills properly. Tanks aren't like that, you have no skillful way of quickly killing a tank with CDs up, it's just banging into them waiting for them to run out of defensives.

Healers you need to interrupt or stun properly to kill, DPS obviously depends on the class, but tanks you can't do that, you just have to wait out all their defensive CD's before you can kill them.

No idea why you think they're interchangeable with other roles when they clearly aren't. Tanks don't belong in PvP, simple as that, they serve no purpose other than to annoy people.

[Tyrean]

@ TOR pvp: Rofl. I thought Blizzard was bad at pvp design/balance. Bioware trumped them, hands down.

I don't think I ever heard anyone say that it was the best PvP ever, just pulling some of the ideas that were good. Can you honestly say that WoW is anything other than ides pulled from other games into one place?

[Knolan]

There are many ways to make tanks good in pvp, they could, for instance, allow them to receive a percentage of the vengence buff while on PVP. Also they could add a skill that redirects the damage taken from an ally to tank, and give it even more vengence. So, eitheir you hit the tank or you hit its friend and make the tank stronger.

Another very simple solution is to add a skill that increases the damage done and taken by x. This skill would be 10s uncancelable debuff, so you would have to use it with care.

Still, I don't see tanks coming back to pvp any time soon.