Why do you choose LFR over Raid Guilds?

[Reyzzz]

Why do I choose LFR over raid guild?

I don't, I'd rather quit.

[Mormolyce]

Or people being ignorant.
Some of us simply cannot commit to a fixed start time, or fixed duration at all.
It does not matter how many days of the week you run a raid, I cannot ever say in advance that I will be available at a given start time.
I cannot ever say even if I make some raid at the last minute that I will be able to stay for some duration.

Yeah this is a big problem, I had it myself. Like, I quit raiding because of the fact I could no longer make the time commitment but still play like what? 30-40 hours per week at least? But the thing is I can't guarantee that I will be playing SPECIFICALLY at 8:00-12:00 on Wednesday anymore.

[noralya]

Personally, I'd LOVE to go back to Guild/Heroic Raiding instead of being stuck in LFR. Except that with moving across the globe, changing the region of the account, starting from scratch, knowing nobody and having a heavy schedule... I just don't have the time to invest in looking and convincing a good guild to let me in, so no raid for me.

[Dawnshadow]

I love my RP guild, but it doesn't raid. I've raided in the past, but I tend to lose interest in any given raid after about 4-5 weeks in a row of the same content. And most raid guilds want their raiders to be IN THEIR GUILD, which means that finding a group that needs an offtank (or healer, on an alt) and doesn't mind the offtank/healer not counting as a guild member wouldn't be easy at all.

I have been dabbling in LFR, but the long queues on my main mean that his gear stalled at around 480-- my healer alt is actually slightly better geared at this point, despite having been 90 for all of a month! The problem is that people who are pugging for even tier 14 10 mans tend to have unreasonable expectations for experience and gear-- the whole 'you can't run this if you need the gear from it' problem.

[VgerAN]

I'm in a good raiding guild but not on the raid team. My work schedule is not predictable enough to show up the same time multiple times per week to do normal raids, and basically nobody on my server plays on weekends, which would be the best time for me (and when I used to raid). And honestly I don't want my life to revolve around a particular game anyway. I don't WANT to be in LFR, but it's the only way I really feel I CAN raid, so that's the way it is. Every once in a while I fill in a spot for the heroic raids, though of course skill can only make up for so much of a 20-ilvl gap.

(Also I think that the default loot system for normal mode raids is horrible, and I think that LFR's loot system is vastly better. I don't want to feel obligated to give up loot for friends.)

[Mormolyce]

Personally, I'd LOVE to go back to Guild/Heroic Raiding instead of being stuck in LFR. Except that with moving across the globe, changing the region of the account, starting from scratch, knowing nobody and having a heavy schedule... I just don't have the time to invest in looking and convincing a good guild to let me in, so no raid for me.

If you want to get back in, try out Openraid. Should help you get some experience and logs to put on an app.

[Frizzlewits]

Reasons NOT to join a raiding guild:

1. Time constraints
2. bads in raiding guilds also, aka friends of friends usually
3. drama
4. god complex with officers and leader
5. Bias loot councils - loots goes to leader/officers first most of time
6. Raid leader constantly yelling at top of lungs (who has not encountered one of these)
7. Can't make raid due to something coming up - punished, raiding comes first!
8. Always someone on vent is annoying/know it all

ya ya not all are like this but majority seems to be. I've had plenty of LFRs go very smooth and quick, some gone bad, but not many. Just way too much drama in most guilds now a days and to join one it seems you have to fill out apps like you are applying for a real job. Always drama over loot at some point and guild hoppers always looking for better guilds.

1: yeah my work. as truck drive i never know when i am home.
2 yep seen that enough
3 my g** the guild drama's i have seen -_-
4 couldnt agree more.
5 my first raiding guild did not have that, but those after it. yep
6 hmm not that much
7 got kicked once cuz i had to work
8 mute is your friend!


LFR = que up. wait a bit. do pew pew pew. can walk away if needed. (fam goes first) come back later and boss is dead. ye i missed a boss kill for same reason.
most of the time no1 speaks apart from the hi/hello/yo at the beginning.

[AvatarM]

Or people being ignorant.
Some of us simply cannot commit to a fixed start time, or fixed duration at all.
It does not matter how many days of the week you run a raid, I cannot ever say in advance that I will be available at a given start time.
I cannot ever say even if I make some raid at the last minute that I will be able to stay for some duration.

That is why I raid in LFR, because no matter how long or not I stay, when I can start, if I even do the impact on others when I have to leave or not even start in the first place is minimal.

I do not choose LFR, I HAVE to use LFR or I do not raid.

And thats fine. If you don't have time to commit raid, or choose not to, its your problem, nobody cares. BUT, MOST people that are saying that don't have time are lying. Most people stay logged in more time then any top raider do, doing dailies, farming, doing 5-man, LFR, leveling alts. Most people choose LFR because it is easier, it is lazier.

What blizzard needs to do, is to put an carrot on stick for these players, give flex/normal/heroic raids things that LFR don't have.

Example:
- Loots that just drop from Flex/Normal/Heroic. Just ilvl is not enough, some loots are too OP to be in LFR, to keep people interested in doing non-LFR raiding, items like the best trinkets, need to be Flex/Normal/Heroic exclusive. Some just Heroic exclusive. Horridon´s Last Grasp and Breath of Hydra for example.
- It´s ok to LFR players have tier, they need something to keep they doing LFR for months, blizzard knows that. But the LFR models should be different. Non-LFR tiers could have exlusive model, and not just a recolor of same model.
- Legendary weapons for Heroics, in the 1st and 2nd Tiers of the EXP. I am fine with legendary cloak for everyone, it's ok. But heroic raiders need to have access for some exclusive items, just ILVL is not enough. And Legendary weapons in the last tier are a waste. When you finally can get them, you probably already killed the end boss.

[Rubidium]

Saying that Blizzard should remove LFR to force people into normals is like saying Toyota should stop making Camrys so people will buy more sports cars.

The Camry, like LFR, is not the greatest thing in the world, but its a decent functional basic item that satisfies a lot of people.

[Luubox]

Saying that Blizzard should remove LFR to force people into normals is like saying Toyota should stop making Camrys so people will buy more sports cars.

The Camry, like LFR, is not the greatest thing in the world, but its a decent functional basic item that satisfies a lot of people.

That was just.. beautiful

[Normie]

- Loots that just drop from Flex/Normal/Heroic. Just ilvl is not enough, some loots are too OP to be in LFR, to keep people interested in doing non-LFR raiding, items like the best trinkets, need to be Flex/Normal/Heroic exclusive. Some just Heroic exclusive. Horridon´s Last Grasp and Breath of Hydra for example.

You do not understand. For people who are in LFR and not in normal, there is generally NOTHING that will make them raid normal.

You completely don't get it.

It is freaking impossible for many people to raid normal. Pretty much everyone who wants to be an organized raider and can be an organized raider is an organized raider.

You can fill LFR with uninteresting, semi-worthless loot, and stack normal full of nothing but sexy little loot nuggets, and neither I nor 99.9% of the people who are currently not raiding normal will spend one minute more in normal than we ever have.

It is not laziness. It is a mixture of the same things that have already been said:

(1) Time, both how much and schedule (mine is all over the place)
(2) Server population (my faction has one guild that does heroics now as far as I know)
(3) And of course whether listening to a bunch of nerds with the same nasal voices and clipped pronunciation for 8-16 hours a week would be fun (I really hate this part)

[The Iron Fist]

I doubt a lot of people have left raiding specifically FOR LFR. I just rejoined the raiding community myself with my guild as a 10-man raider.

Having been a GM for 8 years and doing most of the recruiting myself, recruiting raiders that are serious about content who arent hardcore, is near impossible. It hasn't hurt the HM guilds, but it's completely neutered the more casual NM guilds. The effort put into NM raiding just isn't worth it for the payoff when you have LFR in its current state.

[Normie]

Having been a GM for 8 years and doing most of the recruiting myself, recruiting raiders that are serious about content who arent hardcore, is near impossible. It hasn't hurt the HM guilds, but it's completely neutered the more casual NM guilds. The effort put into NM raiding just isn't worth it for the payoff when you have LFR in its current state.

I think that's a problem with raiding culture that has very little to do with LFR.

Organized raiding has pretty much doomed itself by becoming a clique that doesn't accept or even want new members.

I think you should ask yourself, what is it that is keeping you from recruiting? Exactly what does "serious about content" mean, and why should someone enjoy that?

[The Iron Fist]

You do not understand. For people who are in LFR and not in normal, there is generally NOTHING that will make them raid normal.

You completely don't get it.

It is freaking impossible for many people to raid normal. Pretty much everyone who wants to be an organized raider and can be an organized raider is an organized raider.

You can fill LFR with uninteresting, semi-worthless loot, and stack normal full of nothing but sexy little loot nuggets, and neither I nor 99.9% of the people who are currently not raiding normal will spend one minute more in normal than we ever have.

It is not laziness. It is a mixture of the same things that have already been said:

(1) Time, both how much and schedule (mine is all over the place)
(2) Server population (my faction has one guild that does heroics now as far as I know)
(3) And of course whether listening to a bunch of nerds with the same nasal voices and clipped pronunciation for 8-16 hours a week would be fun (I really hate this part)

Your opinion here is just flat wrong. I've recruited and been a raiding guild GM since BWL came out, and I can honestly say most Normal Mode raiders that can't make the more into Heroic Modes pretty much throw up their hands at Normals or aren't nearly as serious as an organized raider needs to be, because they feel they have that LFR fallback - the "meh. i can just do LFR if i dont want to prep or research fights." mentality is rampant this expansion. It's near impossible ATM to run a normal mode raid guild.

[Normie]

Your opinion here is just flat wrong. I've recruited and been a raiding guild GM since BWL came out, and I can honestly say most Normal Mode raiders that can't make the more into Heroic Modes pretty much throw up their hands at Normals or aren't nearly as serious as an organized raider needs to be, because they feel they have that LFR fallback - the "meh. i can just do LFR if i dont want to prep or research fights." mentality is rampant this expansion. It's near impossible ATM to run a normal mode raid guild.

Probably because Normal Mode is way too hard this expansion.

Blizzard seems to like it that way, so I think normal mode raiding is dead forever. Fine by me, no one needs a second heroic difficulty.

Understand: If people wanted to be raiding normal mode, they would be.

[Eurydemus]

As with many people, my main issues are time and responsibilities. Regular, weekly raid schedules have opportunity costs (e.g. time with friends and family, meeting career and life milestones, vacations, etc.) and regardless of how much I like playing WoW with my guildmates, I'm not willing to sacrifice real-world rewards for online ones.

LFR gives me what I want out of the game, which is a chance to experience the storyline and gear to make things like dailies and re-visiting old raids more efficient. That's all I need.

[The Iron Fist]

I think that's a problem with raiding culture that has very little to do with LFR.

Organized raiding has pretty much doomed itself by becoming a clique that doesn't accept or even want new members.

I think you should ask yourself, what is it that is keeping you from recruiting? Exactly what does "serious about content" mean, and why should someone enjoy that?

Serious about content means they prepare for raid and treat it as a responsibility. This means they show up 10 minutes early for raid time, they research fights before engaging the encounter, are repaired and waiting outside the raid entrance, and are properly gemed/glyphed/enchanted before raid time. Many people now show up late or don't do what we need, so we sit them and there response is "oh well, i can just do LFR".

There isn't enough incentive for the upgrade to NM from LFR. The people that tend to do whats necessary for organized raiding gravitate to HM guilds. The people who want as easy time raiding (NM use to fill this role) just started doing LFR.

[Nyaldee]

Didn't read wholle thread, also don't raid LFR since start of MoP, but when i did i prefered that setting becouse it's easier to hop on when you're free then being forced to show at specific time. And honestly not that many care about iLVL difference becouse LFR provides enough gear for more LFR.

[The Iron Fist]

Probably because Normal Mode is way too hard this expansion.

Blizzard seems to like it that way, so I think normal mode raiding is dead forever. Fine by me, no one needs a second heroic difficulty.

Understand: If people wanted to be raiding normal mode, they would be.

There are alot of people that want to do Normals, as we had been running 25s, it's just not enough incentive for normals. Same gear, same bosses, just higher ILVL gear. HMs get extra achieves, bosses, mounts drops etc. NMs dont get anything like that.

As far as NM being harder this expac, I'd disagree. T11 for those 4-5 months before the nerfs was significantly harder than T14 or T15, and I didn't have the same problems I now face. The common factor I equate that too is LFR.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not an LFR hater, however I do feel they implemented it wrong. Legendaries from LFR isn't legendary. Making it mandatory for tier pieces and loot for NM/HM raiders burns us out 2x as fast on the raid dungeon, etc etc... bleh bleh bleh.

Point being... I think almost all of the people who are NM raiders at heart, but want something more to do that LFR will most likely us Flex Raiding to fill that void.

I agree with you on this point though... I think NM raiding is dead currently.

[Otimus]

First of all, why do you play an MMO if socializing in a game with "strangers" (i hardly ever considered my guildies as such) is such a big issue for you? The entire genre has been tailored around it and the first and only game of the genre that has been murdering that aspect with a machete is WoW since mid WolTk. Every other MMOs are tailored around grouping and communities.

Then why everytime an LFR boss is even remotely challenging are the forums getting stormed by complaints?

Why is LFR loot such a big debate in the LFR community since its inception? Why is there a nearly endless stream of LFR loot/coins complaints if people simply want to "play the game and have fun"?

Why is the current raiding tier being completly accessible such a big concern if all you want to do is "have fun on your own terms". I've been at both extremes of the argument and i had plenty of fun simply pugging Karazhan on week ends when i couldn't play otherwise during TBC because of school.

I didn't name or point anyone, if you found my post insulting its because it hit the nail on the head, i'm negative because i'm jaded with both the community and the direction of the game.

I found it offensive because it's condescending in general, you didn't "hit the nail on the head". Stop trying to find backdoor ways to insult people without insulting them (You know full well what you're doing, and it's not very polite.)

The people crying in forums represent a very small minority of people, and it's not really something to gauge things off of. Whiners are very much more likely to be vocal in methods in which they can be vocal, rather than the general populace. Another thing, as well, is you should generally look at the types of people complaining about these things. I'm willing to bet you that in at least more than half of the cases, it's going to be someone who raids at least normal in some capacity.

Socializing is not that big of a deal in WoW. Which is why I play WoW, and not other MMOs. I like the idea that I'm in a "world" with people in it, and that they're "there", or something. Plus, I enjoy WoW's gameplay. WoW's big thing back in the day was that it was an MMO you could mostly play alone, whereas things like Everquest and the like at the time, if you didn't group up early on, you were pretty screwed. That's why me, and a lot of people latched onto WoW, and that's why they've in turn had to cater to that audience -- It's the audience they pretty much pandered to. Plus! That's just the general way gaming is going now a days.