An isolationist America: Would it be good or bad?

[Deleted]

Who said nuclear war? North Korea doesn't have working nukes. Even if they did... France and the UK would nuke them into submission if North Korea nuked anyone.

Of course they have working nukes. They might not be able to launch them, but they can still detonate nukes. A little bit of creativity and they can still do some damage.

[Godspeed]

That would lead European Union to make its own army, within 10-20 years they would make army so big and powerful that it would dwarf any other army in the world. US is a world superpower because Europe is fine with it, not because it is something US decides.

[Kalis]

That would lead European Union to make its own army, within 10-20 years they would make army so big and powerful that it would dwarf any other army in the world. US is a world superpower because Europe is fine with it, not because it is something US decides.

I doubt we'd be fine with the necessary increase in expenditure needed to overtake the US.

2012 expenditure:
$689bn United States ($682bn in 2013)
$272bn EU (combined)
$129bn China ($166bn in 2013)
$ 64bn Russia ($90bn in 2013)

Edit: make it easier to read.

Re-edit: sources were for different years.

[Itisamuh]

I think it would be good for us to isolate ourselves somewhat, at least until we get our crap together. It may not be good for our allies, though.

[Godspeed]

I doubt we'd be fine with the necessary increase in expenditure needed to overtake the US.

Current expenditure:
United States $689bn
EU (combined) $272bn
China $129bn
Russia $ 64bn

These expenditures are low because European countries do not need big armies, they have NATO atm, if the tide changed with US thinking only about itself that kind of view would change immensely. Germany alone could match 70% of USA army expenditures.

[Kalis]

These expenditures are low because European countries do not need big armies, they have NATO atm, if the tide changed with US thinking only about itself that kind of view would change immensely. Germany alone could match 70% of USA army expenditures.

That they could do it, doesn't mean that they would do it.

I think the rest of the EU would have issues with Germany spending huge amounts on their military - at the moment they spend about $45bn, compared to the UK and France with about $60bn each.

Edit: I'm not sure that Germany could do it on any practical level - to get to 70% of US spending they'd need to increase GDP spend on the military from the current 1.5% ish to around 15%. For comparison, the US spends about 4.5%, Russia about the same, and (with the exception of Saudi Arabia), every other country in the top 15 spends between 1.5-2.5%.

[Ettan]

For the world as a whole it would be good, for America not so good.
Without strong military presence you cannot say print out money in mass and not have your currency go to shit.
The leach that is the dollar would no longer sustain its artificial value.
Short term that would suck balls for Usa, long term I think it would be rather healthy (a weak dollar will greatly benefit American industry).

[Tackhisis]

It would be impossible, as USA economy is built upon ravaging the third-world countries. It is impossible to do without military threat.

[Godspeed]

That they could do it, doesn't mean that they would do it.

I think the rest of the EU would have issues with Germany spending huge amounts on their military - at the moment they spend about $45bn, compared to the UK and France with about $60bn each.

Well, that's another topic. Cultural differences in Europe have always been a problem, but I think Europe has a capacity today to overcome that challenge if need be. I am very sure that EU has a contingency plan if something like this happened. Fact is EU could transform itself very quickly into a huge army state if it was threatened somehow. You can rest assured EU will not allow to be devastated again like it has been in WWII.

[Kalis]

Well, that's another topic. Cultural differences in Europe have always been a problem, but I think Europe has a capacity today to overcome that challenge if need be. I am very sure that EU has a contingency plan if something like this happened. Fact is EU could transform itself very quickly into a huge army state if it was threatened somehow. You can rest assured EU will not allow to be devastated again like it has been in WWII.

See my edit on spending.

Although Europe could theoretically outspend the US current levels, it wouldn't be economically practical (unless we went back to colonialism).

[inboundpaper]

I would assume the major EU players would step up where they need to, then very little would change.

[Deleted]

No, because it would cause this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

[someotherguy]

ah, the age-old question.
Would being more like North Korea be good for America.

I do not think so.

[zpiff]

People keep talking about China. as a major player. Fact is if it came to a war with japan. they would loose big time.
And they know it.
Same with would prolly happen against south korea.

[Deleted]

People keep talking about China. as a major player. Fact is if it came to a war with japan. they would loose big time.
And they know it.
Same with would prolly happen against south korea.

You're dreaming.

[Deleted]

People keep talking about China. as a major player. Fact is if it came to a war with japan. they would loose big time.
And they know it.
Same with would prolly happen against south korea.

China is the industrial superpower so they will win against a non-nuclear, but the cost will be extremely high, because of the political cost and the economic cost...and hence they will never do something like that....

[Sialanne]

For the world as a whole it would be good, for America not so good.
Without strong military presence you cannot say print out money in mass and not have your currency go to shit.
The leach that is the dollar would no longer sustain its artificial value.
Short term that would suck balls for Usa, long term I think it would be rather healthy (a weak dollar will greatly benefit American industry).

What the fuck are you talking about? This makes no sense

[Neufab]

- Europe (and Japan) would be left militarily helpless. Most of these countries have little more than a national guard, as that's all they've really needed with American bases scattered throughout. Though there also aren't any present military threats to Europe, leaving one of the wealthier parts of the world without any protection isn't a great idea. Russia would be likely to take advantage and play a much larger role in their development.

As a European I'm not worried. Everyone knows it only takes Germany about 6 years to build a military machine that requires the combined might of 3 super powers to defeat.

[Kalis]

As a European I'm not worried. Everyone knows it only takes Germany about 6 years to build a military machine that requires the combined might of 3 super powers to defeat.

Add in the fact that they'd probably be allied to Britain, France and Italy (50% of the time at least), and the EU flag would be flying over Moscow, Washington and Beijing before they knew what'd hit them.

[Sialanne]

Add in the fact that they'd probably be allied to Britain, France and Italy (50% of the time at least), and the EU flag would be flying over Moscow, Washington and Beijing before they knew what'd hit them.

You go right ahead and think that. The rest of us will be back here, in reality, laughing at you.