An isolationist America: Would it be good or bad?

[Neufab]

I don't think that Europe is the 3rd world. I do think that it's filled with separate countries, who, union or no, will still put themselves before their union.

I believe that here in the US, the whole is greater than the sum of our parts, and I don't feel the same way about the EU.

So NATO would never have worked?
Obviously it will be a long time before the EU can conduct an offensive war but if Europe was truly threatened we'd no doubt forget about our petty disputes.
Also, I don't believe the US is as united as you seem to think, liberals and conservatives over there seems to hate each other with a passion we cant quite understand here, and you certainly have had a taste of civil unrest due to unpopular wars.

[RicardoZ]

South korea and japan would still flatten north korea if they ever pulled some shit.

Get over yourself if you really think the US is the only thing preventing total nuclear war.

South Kore maybe, but what army would Japan use to do this?

[Kalis]

I don't think that Europe is the 3rd world. I do think that it's filled with separate countries, who, union or no, will still put themselves before their union.

I believe that here in the US, the whole is greater than the sum of our parts, and I don't feel the same way about the EU.

If the EU felt threatened militarily, it is more likely than not the UK, France and Germany would take a lead and fully co-operate. However, at this current time, there is no military threat of any significance, and nor does there look like there will be in the forseeable future.

We have historical issues with building up our military, and using those forces around the globe (UK excepted), and it isn't something that any politician would be too keen on promoting - especially any German politician. Centuries of conflict and colonialism have led us to try alternative methods, but that doesn't mean that we couldn't go back to them if there was a will to do so...we've proved that time and time again.

[Neufab]

That's correct, and I believe this is what would happen if countries were somehow forced to defend themselves because US withdraws. The biggest parties I could see would be something like scandinavia, finland, switzerland and germany teaming up. A lot of those countries (scandinavia being Denmark, Norway and Sweden) are against EU, and would probably do anything (if this situation arised) to form their own kind of union.

I believe that's wishful thinking, people have been talking about something as simple as a scandinavian union ever since it was disolved 500 years ago but it never happened again. For a reason.

No, the united europe stands and falls with the greater powers being mostly able to agree on how to run things, those being France, GB and Germany,

[Kalis]

No, the united europe stands and falls with the greater powers being mostly able to agree on how to run things, those being France, GB and Germany,

More accurately; France and Germany agreeing to policies that suit them, and Britain telling them to fuck off unless we get to be exempt.

[Skarssen]

Isolationism isn't possible anymore. That idea died in the early 20th century. NON-INTERVENTIONISM however, is an interesting solution. Our economies are too intertwined so no country would really survive in isolation, but I don't think it would be a bad thing to limit our military strategy to homeland defense. There are better solutions to trade disputes or one rogue nation trying to seize natural resources, than military intervention. Even so, there are currently no countries, other than the US, capable of serious power projection so I don't see the point in trying to be "world police" when most of the world hates us for it.

And this is coming from an active duty military member who has been in 2 war zones.

---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 12:17 PM ----------

I don't think that Europe is the 3rd world. I do think that it's filled with separate countries, who, union or no, will still put themselves before their union.

I believe that here in the US, the whole is greater than the sum of our parts, and I don't feel the same way about the EU.



It could.

The current problem with Europe is that a few strong countries have to support far weaker countries for little in return, and eventually some of them will get tired of pulling along dead weight. Wait until Germany, Switzerland, Austria and the Scandinavian countries realize they don't need the others anymore (seems Britain already realizes this). I think they already know this but haven't come to terms with it yet.

[lawow74]

World, schmorld. It'd be bad for us. A lot of our economic backbone rests on mutual defense pacts. Countries would be less inclined to trade with us favorably if we weren't helping defend them. Pretty quickly countries like China would move to fill the gap and do what they've been trying to do for years: push international trade off the American dollar standard. Soon as that happened, not only would we be at a lack of goods and services because we don't make shit in this country anymore, the price of everything would triple overnight.

[Kalis]

The current problem with Europe is that a few strong countries have to support far weaker countries for little in return, and eventually some of them will get tired of pulling along dead weight. Wait until Germany, Switzerland, Austria and the Scandinavian countries realize they don't need the others anymore (seems Britain already realizes this). I think they already know this but haven't come to terms with it yet.

To be pedantic; Switzerland aren't in the EU, so don't support other countries in Europe.

Europe started out relatively fractured as far as economies go, and are perhaps even more so at the moment, which could spell doom for the Euro. However, as far as the EU itself is concerned, the benefits in trading for all member countries outweigh any costs involved.

[Scottyjscizzle]

There is a difference between not intertwining with the rest of the world and being isolationists, at this point it is next to impossible to pull out of the global economy but that does not mean we can't keep our troops home reduce spending on the armed forces/aid and get our shit together.

[Deleted]

Oh look, my reasonable arguments I made earlier have been entirely ignored. Then again, logic has no place on MMO-Champion.

Back on topic, if the US did go isolationist, no one would give a fuck and go about their business. My current location, the EU, has enough military might to be able to protect itself. After all, it has the biggest economy on Earth, and has relatively superior technology to everyone else (excluding the US, to which it is roughly equal). There may be some global unrest as multiple things would change, but we can manufacture the things the US makes ourselves anyway.

[Sunseeker]

Isolationism is a bad policy. It has never worked for any nation that has attempted it. Military alliances are the bead and butter of diplomatic relations. "Trade" nations only exist until whoever has a bigger stick starts pushing them to cut ties with people they don't like. While I suspect that the USA is unlikely to ever be pushed around in such a manner, the fact remains that when Russia starts looming over Europe again or China decides to take a shine to some part of Japan, that continued trading with Europe or Japan would inevitably embroil us in their conflicts. ie: Trading with Russia would piss off Europe, and trading with Europe would piss off Russia. Demands would start being made for military assistance paired with threats of cutting off our trade. If we were not 100% TOTALLY economically independent(and we are most certainly not), we'd be screwed if we didn't provide military aid.

[Deleted]

I believe that's wishful thinking, people have been talking about something as simple as a scandinavian union ever since it was disolved 500 years ago but it never happened again. For a reason.

No, the united europe stands and falls with the greater powers being mostly able to agree on how to run things, those being France, GB and Germany,

Of course it's wishful thinking, the scenario isn't even real, lol.

[Deleted]

Of course it's wishful thinking, the scenario isn't even real, lol.

After WW2 Sweden was dead serious on offer a military alliance to the rest of the Scandinavia. But Denmark/Norway did chose US/NATO, but if US/NATO do not exist in the alternative timeline the scenario can be real.... (Historical Finland was bulled by the USSR to not accept, but Sweden/Finland did have a very close partnership anyway)

[Tuor]

North Korea doesn't have working nukes.

Sismoteres all around the world disagree with you... They did tested their nuke capabilities already... Since they do have the technology, we should supose that they do have ready nukes. .

[Cthulhu 2020]

Also, America is not as big as it thinks it is. Get over yourself. A lot of the issues being brought up here are nonsense. Even though ScrappyMuffy apparently has two degrees in history, he doesn't know what the fuck he's on about. Methanar has hit the nail on the head with his first post.

You yourself used the analogy about military budget in North vs South Korea. I suppose South Korea isn't as big as it thinks it is either?

America's military budget is larger than the 29 countries behind it COMBINED.

By your own source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

[Deleted]

You yourself used the analogy about military budget in North vs South Korea. I suppose South Korea isn't as big as it thinks it is either?

America's military budget is larger than the 29 countries behind it COMBINED.

By your own source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

And yet the EU would have a bigger and better military if it decided to spend 4.4% of it's GDP on dick waving.
We're just, y'know, more interested in caring for our own people than trying to kill cavemen who are equipped with wooden guns and home-made bombs.

[Xires]

Oh look, my reasonable arguments I made earlier have been entirely ignored. Then again, logic has no place on MMO-Champion.

Back on topic, if the US did go isolationist, no one would give a fuck and go about their business. My current location, the EU, has enough military might to be able to protect itself. After all, it has the biggest economy on Earth, and has relatively superior technology to everyone else (excluding the US, to which it is roughly equal). There may be some global unrest as multiple things would change, but we can manufacture the things the US makes ourselves anyway.

Wrong. I wonder if anybody from the EU region actually has any education on how important a role the US plays right now. The US military is the only thing preventing the N Koreans from firing there thousands of pieces of artillary into S Korea. For all of you that dont know...the 38th parallel is the most fortified position in the world. There is actually a documentary on what would happen if the US left the world stage. Japan has a small defense force rather then a large army and Navy because the US military has pledged to use whatever means necessary to keep japan safe. The EU doesn't have a Naval Force or Air Force capable of sending large troops quickly around the world, so your force projection pails in comparison to the US. The documentary talks about what would happen in Asia and the middle east if the US left the world stage. Get educated before you come on here hating on the US. Jealousy leads to hatred, mofo. Quit hatin'.

Infracted: Please don't be insulting towards other posters.

[Infernix]

An isolationist America is an impossibility. The US is the center of the global economy and the stability of its government and currency is the sole reason that the global economy even works.

That economy has prevented more wars than anything the UN could ever do at its best. Trade, diplomacy, the buying and selling of various things across borders, oceans and the span of the world has linked nations in ways that increasingly prevent war from ever being a viable option again. And thank god for it.

But, on the odd chance that insanity took control and American leaders decided to play Isolationist again, it'd be a complete disaster for all involved. Without a singular uniting economy, various powerful nations would develop their own competing spheres of influence for resources and commodities. At home in America, we'd find ourselves paying through the nose for basic things like coffee and sugar and rice. Electronics would be obscenely expensive and most Americans would have to get used to seeing 'driving' as a luxury since they'd no longer be using imported oil.

This lovely way of life that we've become accustomed to would fall apart within months. And the rest of the world would fare little better.

In short, it's a horrible idea pushed by dumb men with no concept of how the modern world works.

[Xires]

And yet the EU would have a bigger and better military if it decided to spend 4.4% of it's GDP on dick waving.
We're just, y'know, more interested in caring for our own people than trying to kill cavemen who are equipped with wooden guns and home-made bombs.

No, your just ignorant pricks with no balls. And dont talk to us about "caring" for your citizens. Your food, gas, and taxes blow monkey balls. That is your trade off, enjoy.

[Deleted]

Wrong. I wonder if anybody from the EU region actually has any education on how important a role the US plays right now. The US military is the only thing preventing the N Koreans from firing there thousands of pieces of artillary into S Korea. For all of you that dont know...the 38th parallel is the most fortified position in the world. There is actually a documentary on what would happen if the US left the world stage. Japan has a small defense force rather then a large army and Navy because the US military has pledged to use whatever means necessary to keep japan safe. The EU doesn't have a Naval Force or Air Force capable of sending large troops quickly around the world, so your force projection pails in comparison to the US. The documentary talks about what would happen in Asia and the middle east if the US left the world stage. Get educated before you come on here hating on the US. Jealousy leads to hatred, mofo. Quit hatin'.

And then the South would absolutely annihilate the North anyway. Please, learn English and then present a proper argument to me.

Edit: I come on here for civilized discussion and I get a bunch of angry yanks shouting at me about having big dicks. What do we have to be jealous of? Name one thing.