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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    The topic is interesting; however the guy in the video seems mildly clueless/confused and his points don't really make sense.
    The topic was inspired from another thread on these forums. If his points didn't make sense it was because he was trying to work out why he didn't really get into the MoP end game. Contrary to popular belief in this thread, he wasn't setting out to lay down the laws of compelling gaming. He stated up front that this was purely his opinion based on his personal preferences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    He is praising WotLK as the best expansion, that alone just made me cringe...
    To each their own. I bet I would cringe if you stated your preferred expansion, but that's OK. If everyone liked the same stuff this world would get boring fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    Warrior combat in particular feels horrible right now. I used to like the sense of "I'm wielding a huge ass two handed weapon, and when I get a swing off I will do a huge amount of damage" that existed in Vanilla.

    In MoP it's more like swinging around a cardboard cutout of a sword, doing 2-3 swings per second with no big impact whatsoever. It's like wielding a dagger in two hands.
    Understandable. To be honest I'm usually too busy focusing on what the enemies are doing to pay attention to my character's animations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    Now most casters seem to have moved in that direction of homogenization and running while casting, I can't stand it.
    That's because most raid bosses these days require lots of movement throughout the fight. If a caster can't cast on the run their DPS will be in the toilet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    Gear is also a thing I've thought about since Mists came out. It seems like gear doesn't last long at all now; you get one piece of new shiny gear, and then you replace it again 1 week later with another piece, and it just keeps going like that.

    Heck last time I geared up a new character I gained around 10 epics per week, is that supposed to be normal?
    That's the trade off when you want to release a new raid every three months. Sometimes more isn't better, but Blizzard doesn't seem to have a feel for excess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    Leveling is a catastrophy right now... I just can't make myself level a new character anymore. The quests are boring and repetitive, the combat is without thrill, without fear of dying and easy as hell. Also really repetitive at low levels. Your selfheals are too strong, your control spells lasts too long, your damage mitigation is incredible and your damage is overpowered. It's like doing quests and killing mobs 10 levels below you even if they are higher level than you.
    That's a combination of heirlooms and experience. Many new players aren't well acquainted with self-heals so the fact that you use them while levelling (as you should) gives you a significant advantage over them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Givemount View Post
    The gear while leveling is too easy to come by as well; even if you don't use heirlooms you will have a full set of green gear by the time you hit level 15. Too many quests reward gear that are superior to anything you can find in the same zone from random drops.
    Yeah... they never tuned the random drops properly. I think they glossed over that part in the revamp. What I don't like about levelling is that you've out-levelled your current zone by the time you're half-way through it. The only way to get a reasonable rate of levelling is to avoid heirlooms and high level guilds with the XP buff.

  2. #202
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    New Mageland
    hes 100% right and i too think wrath was the best time of WoW

  3. #203
    The guy didn't really make any points. Every "point" he made was ended with "I don't know why".

  4. #204
    Mechagnome BloodGutter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Dubai, UAE
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    It's not just the tokens. In addition to tokens dailies reward charms and VP. If you skip your 20 minutes of dailies for a couple of nights you're going to have to make them up with several hours' worth of dungeon runs over the weekend. This isn't exclusive to dailies, and it wasn't the case in Cataclysm. You could go all week without running dungeons and the run seven of them on Saturday to obtain the same reward that you would have gotten doing one a night. Now you're forced to go through your little chore list every night unless you want to take three times as long to accomplish the same thing on the weekend. Dailies used to be nice-to-do but now they're better than the alternative. I don't want to play a game that punishes me for missing an night, and that was a big part of the reason I unsubscribed.
    you would have a point with 5.0, but currently in game, doing the barrens weekly, isle weekly, killing rare mobs, heroic scenarios, LFR, etc. all give valor. i don't even try to cap these days and it just happens.

  5. #205
    This reminds me of when TotalBiscuit complained about how Zul'Gurub 2.0 was exactly the same as the original.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Seems reasonable. I never felt the 'gimmies' (the talents anyone who wasn't utterly atrocious would pick anyway, the stuff like Poleaxe Spec for any Arms warrior using a 2h axe or that +damage Prot Tier 1 talent every Ret pally ever started out with) made for an engaging gameplay choice to make, but having them as a Diablo-style point-buy system for secondary stats and power amplifiers/alterations might make for a nifty second level of progression level-by-level.
    Sorry for the late response, we really need a notification system for replies.

    I agree that it's not terribly interesting, but I also think there's something to be said about having a direct hand in making your character more effective, even if only slightly, rather than having everything scale or be obtained automatically. Plus, it would be nice to be able to tweak it a little bit, similar to reforging - maybe have an option to go either +crit, or +haste as needed, but not both (unless you give up something else).

  7. #207
    It's his opinion, but I don't agree with most of it. He's stuck in nostalgia mode. I mean, he liked earning a talent point to use while leveling, but then goes on to say that most talents were useless. Yet he said the talents were better. That doesn't even make sense. lol.
    Last edited by KClovesGaming; 2013-06-25 at 11:37 PM.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Old quest progression was horrible, but I guess some people liked that. You could jump around to different zones and then just end up with a whole bunch of random quest lines stuck in your log. I remember being sent to Sepulcher from a Barrens quest. Why was I sent there? What about all those other Barrens quest lines I was on? Nope, just a pointless delivery quest that took you out of all the quest stories in the Barrens and stuck you on the other continent.
    That, young padowan is whats called EXPORING....

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    That, young padowan is whats called EXPORING....
    Like I said, some people like random quest flow that sends you all over for no good reason. I personally found it annoying since I had a log full of Barrens quests and had to make my way back there to finish them.

    At least the Badlands quest had a point since you would need that FP at level 60.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    It worked well?

    It was so nonlinear that portions of the game were just "go grind mobs." I quit Everquest for a reason, because I don't find tedium enjoyable. I wasn't happy that shit was in WoW in the slightest.
    You know what was great about Vanilla questing, along with big parts of TBC, Wrath and Cata? You werent funneled into a single zone right off the bat, and for all intents and purposes, had to stay in that zone almost until level cap. I have yet to be able to complete the jade forest before reaching or almost reaching 90 on any of my characters.

    This points out another flaw in MoP, a lot of content overstays its welcome. Between the very few dungeons you can run, 0 scenarios pre 90, and always having to scamper through the jade forest on foot when you enter the continent (until adequate level to do the other zones), the burnout is atrocious. The only other time in WoW where this was an issue was TBC with hellfire, and yet you could leave that zone after the first level or 2, OR even skip it altogether and go to zangermarsh...and not get obliterated by the mobs because you were 50 Ilvls short of where you needed to be. In all other starting spots in wow, you had at least 2 spots you could go to, and often you could skip ahead to another zone and not run into a roadblock via quest lvl requirements or monster power. Pre MoP, you could even enter the next expansion area 2 lvls early and do just fine, and even get a jump start with much better gear and xp rewards.

    Everything in MoP is restricted, between when and where you can do content, as well as how often you can do it. Vanilla and other content wasnt like a graphic novel by todays standards, but it didnt need to be linear and restrictive to give you a great story and engross you into the game. Each zone, and most quest hub areas had a story to tell, an INTERESTING story to tell. They didnt need to be lined up in a linear timeline sequence for you to understand and follow them, they were all parts of the same story, and you had the option to choose when and how you wanted to go about piecing it together. Vanilla content overall could be considered linear in overarching design, but its execution was as wide open as a tsunami, rather than traversing the mississippi. In previous content, everything lead up to a singular point, a definitive conclusion, all part of a grand scheme; In MoP , no points move or are reached until yo make them move forward, one step at a time. Like a board game, you have to traverse a singular path, you can only advance once predetermined contingencies have been met.

    A tree in MoP does not fall down unless it's cut from an axe, even if you use a chainsaw to cut it down. The tree does not even appear until you find a specific brand of truck to drive to it with. And the lumber mill will not even recognize that it is a tree you cut down, until you go help the old women down the street with finding her cat.

    In vanilla, you could borrow a saw from the lumber mill, cut the tree down that the cat is hiding on top of, and sell the axe on your way out of town to the next zone, across the river, by swimming over it instead of taking a pre arranged taxi around it.

    As for the everquest comparison:

    WoW was leagues ahead of every mmo when it came to streamlined and "fun" leveling. Most games like EQ and DAOC , which were the prominent titles in that time, could barely get a quest system that was more involved than having to find a random npc and typing out the correct /cmd to get them to possibly give you a box to click, which was apparently a quest. They never had good directions of where to go, or how to complete the quest properly. In all seriousness, people NEVER go into questing in previous games, and leveling was done via grinding mobs, mostly in the required "full group" (which almost always needed a very specific allotment of classes to even work). There was no extensive quest system like in WoW, no "grandiose" dungeon lineup to fight in (which were instanced, as opposed to everything being open world in other games), and grinding mobs in wow was 100x easier than and forgiving than in previous games.

    WoW was literally the end all and be all of mmos. It took every single bs feature of other games, and made them more enjoyable. There was a reason why WoW became so popular, so fast, and it wasnt because it was "super tedious". Can you argue that wow is the "better game" these days? No, but when the end of 2004 came around the last bend, everyone who had been either enjoying their current game because they didnt have better, or were frustrated but not enough to quit because they didnt have better, or had never played an mmo before because of any combination of the 2 previous statements and others, NOW had a better game.

    People didnt quit games for WoW and go "hmm...this is just the same thing that i was playing before" . There was literally NO other game on the market, and for a long time afterwards, that came close to what wow offered, and its accessibility. WoW was like getting rich, having a huge property, huge mansion, amusement park, fully staffed workforce to take care of you and your stuff, getting a partnership at a law firm, developing the cure for cancer, etc. and going " that I have all this new positive stuff in my life, I realize that ive already slept in a bed before, this isnt much better than where I was at all."

    You cannot compare everquest's 'Kill 1000 mobs to gain a bar of xp' to WoW's 'kill 20 mobs to gain a bar of xp' , and call WoW tedious in the same realm of why you quit everquest. Does WoW have tedious components in it? Yes, but only in comparison to what is tedious for WoW, not what is tedious in comparison to other games, which require 10x or more effort for the same thing. People complain about how slow leveling in WoW is, like getting 1-90 in a week or two is too tedious, forgetting or not realizing when it use to take 14 days /played to reach the level cap.

  11. #211
    I typically enjoy Crendor's videos, but there wasn't a single intelligible argument composed in his rant. I suppose he isn't known for his articulation.

  12. #212
    Can't believe he complained about talent system, it's better now than ever n people get new spells when they ding, they get told what's new n can instantly try them, so people learn better, what is wrong with that?

  13. #213
    Mechagnome Morbownz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Cheshire, UK
    We don't play WoW for the purest sense of enjoyement anymore, in Vanilla I was content running through zones because I adored the music and the scenery, how sad am I?

    Now you play WoW to get stuff... thats it, and Blizzard keep you paying your subs by giving to you but dragging it out over a period of time...You might be a hardcore raider that feels different about this, but I am not really talking about you, I am talking about the largest part of the player base.., the average player.

    One of the things I remember about Vanilla and to a lesser extent TBC was how BG was still something most people still did, finish a raid... someone would say "anyone for some pvp?" ... I loved that... gear didn't put you off so much. I am happy that the more PvP minded players have their own area endgame in WoW and they are rewarded for it, but I always missed the random PvP games that seemed to be filled with just about anybody and you'd find yourselves working together to co-ordinate a flag drop or supporting a base.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Morbownz View Post
    We don't play WoW for the purest sense of enjoyement anymore, in Vanilla I was content running through zones because I adored the music and the scenery, how sad am I?

    Now you play WoW to get stuff... thats it, and Blizzard keep you paying your subs by giving to you but dragging it out over a period of time...You might be a hardcore raider that feels different about this, but I am not really talking about you, I am talking about the largest part of the player base.., the average player.
    That's because you were new to the genre. Any of us who played any MMO prior to WoW quickly got over the sense of newness and got back to the level and gear grind. If that is what is bothering you about WoW you can't blame it for being what it is but rather need to blame yourself for not knowing what you were getting into.

  15. #215
    Brewmaster Knadra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Minato-Ku, Tokyo, Japan
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    That's because you were new to the genre. Any of us who played any MMO prior to WoW quickly got over the sense of newness and got back to the level and gear grind. If that is what is bothering you about WoW you can't blame it for being what it is but rather need to blame yourself for not knowing what you were getting into.
    So true people forget this very often, I hear all this nostalgic shit and I never understand since WoW has always just been another MMO to me. The best one in terms of the endgame and that is what has kept me playing it.
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  16. #216
    Bloodsail Admiral WarpKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Wowcrendor's channel has gone so far downhill in the past year. He used to make great stuff which I enjoyed watching, even just playthroughs of things like Farming Simulator and whatnot. He seemed to possess an ability to make anything entertaining. Then for some reason he became obsessed with talking about how he became so popular and famous and how he got so many subscribers, et cetera. It's basically all he talks about all through his videos now, it seems very egocentric and is extremely disheartening and boring to listen to. He also barely posts anything these days.

    I've watched this video, but seeing as, by his own admission, he's barely played Mists of Pandaria, I have a hard time accepting his experiences as valid opinions on the game. Someone who has dinged 90, run a few dungeons, and gotten a few blues does not really have insight into the game that I'd consider worthwhile, especially not when it is tainted by nostalgia so badly. Myself, I've leveled four characters to level 90, have raided in a semi-hardcore guild for the entire expansion (until very recently due to the fact that my chosen class, Blood DK, is incredibly lacking in Heroic Throne of Thunder compared to frankly disgustingly overpowered Brewmasters and Prot Paladins). I don't really think Crendor has any right to preach to the kind of player that has actually played the game.

    I do agree with him about missing the positive feelings attached to acquiring a new talent point on leveling up, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tumblrists gonna Tumble.
    Someone got there [sic] shit seriously triggered.

  17. #217
    I would agree with him in some points, but his ability to express what he thinks is almost non existent. Don't play too many video games, kids.

  18. #218
    Why is it allways that lil clique of wow celebs that allways is making vids about wow blowing?
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    That's because you were new to the genre. Any of us who played any MMO prior to WoW quickly got over the sense of newness and got back to the level and gear grind. If that is what is bothering you about WoW you can't blame it for being what it is but rather need to blame yourself for not knowing what you were getting into.
    Yup. My first MMO was Anarchy Online. Nothing in WoW ever matched the awe I felt the first time I got lost wandering around Omni-1 at night. Looking at all the tall forboding buildings and noticing a little sweeper bot cleaning the street under a street lamp. And I still clearly remember heading towards a random mission in Newland Desert and cresting over a sand dune while the sun reflected off a tower in the distance and soaring music filled my headphones.

    But I realize that that's just nostalgia talking because that was my first MMO and the whole idea of MMOs was amazing to me then.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Xl House lX View Post
    Man I usually like his videos because he is a good voice actor, but damn his voice was so damn shaky in that video and his "uhhs" made me want to falcon punch my monitor.

    He had some points though. There is absolutely no feeling of exploration in WoW anymore, it simply doesn't exist. Flying mounts are a huge contribution to this, along with the questing mechanics and other things (like overusage of flight masters/paths). There is nothing there to capture your imagination like there used to be
    The lack of flying from 85-90 in MoP gave me a feeling of irritation, annoyance, and tedium(artificially slowing the leveling process by adding more travel time), not a feeling of exploration. And it didn't capture my imagination, it pissed me off. I explored a LOT more once I hit 90 and was able to fly.

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