Ra'Den advice (10 man)

[Deleted]

So, we tried Ra'Den Last night and unlike other guilds which steamroll it we didn't, sadly we don't have a monk tank, and we don't have a disc priest either. Combine this with the fact our Melee is generally our strongest DPS we ended up with a less then perfect setup.

I tanked it as I'm the RL and I didn't feel comfortable letting my prot paladin raidlead since he's a bit of a cunt when it comes to other people and what not.

Next week we'll have a resto shaman there so I gain a nice 10% hp but I have to admit I did have some issues, some thing I noticed and i'm wondering how other warriors that solo tanked this acted with it.

- When you blow him up (so 4th and 7th waves of balls) BW Fatal Strike countdown resets, which actually fucked me up once. Need to keep an eye on energy/keep counting as the old timer is running to mititgate it.
- I tried to help out my healers by Blocking -> Putting up a Barrier, I also sometimes used Impending Victory. I have to admit this screwed me over a good few times, sometimes Ra'Dan would be a dear and delay the strike enough for me to gain the 60 rage required, other times he'd squish me like a grape. (Including our best attempt @ 42% , granted I would have died from the damage as I didn't have enough health/mitigation from other sources).

How do you manage your rage properly? I'm thinking of just not barrier AT ALL and just using my rage on Impending Victory right before the strike/Shield Blocks. I feel since we're three healing it I shouldnt need to but I'm a mitigation machine @ heart and not putting up that precious barrier... :'(

Other option might be still using Barrier but making sure i'd have a revenge & SS ready instantly afterwards and maybe spread my shouts/beseker rage aswell or something. I just noticed that If i maximise my mitigation I get in trouble with my rage sometimes.

Any other cool tips some people can share? (Looking @ you guys Klaus & Eddy, even though eddy is a 25 scumbagger!)

(Generally we lust @ pull btw, with upgrades and our DPS i feel Phase 2 will most likely be a push over compared to Phase 1, standing still and nuking while keeping up the raid seems pretty trivial. How is tank damage in Phase 2? Fatal strike goes away afaik but I imagen he still melees like a baws, or is it neglectable compared to tank damage in P1.)

Our last & best attempt, should this be interesting; http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t...?s=8208&e=8470

Runing with unending rage, which I prolly can change to Victory rush but... I'm not sure if i'd be comfortable, the 120 Rage makes it easier to manage in this specific fight I feel.

[Deleted]

- When you blow him up (so 4th and 7th waves of balls) BW Fatal Strike countdown resets, which actually fucked me up once. Need to keep an eye on energy/keep counting as the old timer is running to mititgate it.

Had that a few times and it caught me unaware as well lol, you just get used to switching to watching his energy bar whenever you are soaking the waves

For Ra-den I basically never barrier at all, apart from in the last phase where sometimes you won't have enough rage to Shield Block but the next swing would otherwise kill you and puts a nice 1mil + shield on you but be sure to call for a CD afterwards or just say on vent that you will need a lot of healing as its doubtful you will have enough rage to Block before the shield runs out

Sorry to say but the real tank damage doesn't start until phase 2 when its easily around 500k vengeance from auto swings^^
I would honestly suggest saving lust for the sub 30% burn as the DPS requirement to not have to soak the balls again in phase 1 isn't that high at all

One main thing I would do is put the Fatal Strike on super emphasise and use the audio countdown for it and pop block on the "1"
Just sit on full rage when the strike isn't coming for a while when progressing, you can play a little more "aggressively" with your block usage but it does require a little bit of practice with the fight to make sure you have the rage required for the next fatal strike
Obviously as well try and Demo Shout the strike as much as you can ^^

Edit#1
Also from your logs you should most definitely have your paladin spec into fist of justice and stun the add as there is quite a lot of damage going off from it, especially when you are near a fatal strike which is going to be pretty lethal if you aren't fully topped

Edit#2
Also, DPS meta o_O? Trust me, you will be so thankful for using the tanking one in phase 2, its an absolute life saver:P
WeakAura for easy tracking if you dont have it already for the Meta Proc so you dont have to call for a CD
http://pastebin.com/HHFAwYzu

[Deleted]

Ye, I do exactly that with BW Eddy, first thing I set up before last night, worked wonderfully. As for the P2 damage, all 10 man logs I checked have tank damage go down, which makes sense as Fatal Strike damage in 25 and 10 is the same I believe, but melee swings are alot lower in 10 man. Might also be because you're free to mitigate damage there as you see fit and not sit @ full rage for ~ 5 seconds holding back stuff.

I actually thought our paladin specced into that, as we discussed it about 50% through the night.

I gues i'll just have to resist the urge to use shieldbarrier some more. I must say, i hate paladins for sacred shield right now, scumbags with a free automatic baby barrier. Wtb a Barrier I can cap @ 20 rage or some shit.

[Deleted]

Ah it could very well be that, just from 25 I know that the damage literally doubles going into p2 ^^

Yeah I would say thats the safest option, its just too risky to use Block + Barrier for a fatal strike as you can't always guarantee you will have enough rage for the next one = / Would be indeed very nice if you could cap the barrier amount at 20 rage, just even a small reduction on the strike damage would be really nice

[Deleted]

I shouldnt be giving advice, since I havent killed him either, but since I was in a similar spot last night (no disc this week), and I feel like the amount of ext absorbs and damage distribution its very diff on both sizes... 1) no stamina is enough stamina there I went with mastery and it was a fail, without a disc and no absorbs you can and will die. 2) really try to scramble enough rage to do a sblock+barrier. If you cant, cd the fatal strike. Its playing with fire if there is no disc.

[Wycked]

Ra den 10 man...kick all the mele dps out of your guild. get that resto sham....kick the pally and get a monk tank. Then come in and 1 shot it.

[Deleted]

If you can do it great, but I honestly think trying to barrier it is just simply too risky and then at least the one after you barrier you will only just have enough rage for block and won't be able to get a barrier off as well

This is going to be an odd fight on 10 in terms of gearing as all of the other fights are fine with a mastery-centric build due to there being no abilities like fatal strike which require a certain amount of health to survive, I honestly would suggest running dual stam trinkets / slightly more stam gems on a fight like this

[Deleted]

This is going to be an odd fight on 10 in terms of gearing as all of the other fights are fine with a mastery-centric build due to there being no abilities like fatal strike which require a certain amount of health to survive, I honestly would suggest running dual stam trinkets / slightly more stam gems on a fight like this

Ye, I've considered regemming a tad, dual stam trinkets means running with that jade figure thing... which... Meh... it's just something i'd rather not as I'd lose alot of secondary stats that way.

Also, advice that results in me rerolling monk is not real advice Wycked... Thanks but no thanks.....

One other thing i'll do is farm me some rage pots tonight, had 2-3 OW SHIT moments where a rage pot would have saved me life... No reason to not use one then If it can keep an attempt going. I just wish there was a good way to mitigate a small chunk of that fatal strike, like indeed with a 20 rage barrier it would be so grand!

[Kalliope]

Yea tank damage for my 10 man group is much higher in phase 2. We do use a Monk tank and we have to begin rolling cooldowns on him around 25% after he uses his up. I can't really imagine not having lust for that phase (it helps healers as well). Remember he gains damage stacks all through phase 1 and keeps them going into phase 2. Even with 3 healers the raid damage and tank damage in that last 10-15% is high, especially if you get all blue orbs that increase the boss damage, which pretty much happened to us on our last kill.


Unless your raid DPS is too low to push into phase 2 before that 9th or 10th set of orbs (can't remember) there's really no reason to be lusting until 20%.

[Deleted]

I just wish there was a good way to mitigate a small chunk of that fatal strike, like indeed with a 20 rage barrier it would be so grand!

Soul Barrier #Trollface.jpg

Well, the proc on the Jade Figurine isn't all that bad, I honestly think the gain you will get from the stamina will easily outweigh the loss in secondaries
For a fight like Ra-den I doubt you will even notice the loss tbh

[Deleted]

Wonder how much HP Klaus or other 10 man tanks sit @ on Ra'Den, I believe I ran with ~717K unbuffed health..

Just had to check my stream, without a resto shaman I sat on: 819K (Fully buffed and flasked). so add 10% to that with da shammy and I'm sitting pretty on 900K health, I think that should be enough, then again, getting a million wouldn't be bad either.... (maybe an upgrade here or there.... )

Biggest hit i took from Fatal Strike (although i'm not sure if i can Query that for sure, but I queried for the ability and scrolled down the list) was just under 800K (no absorbs nothing). (Although on our best attempt it was around 720K~ max)

A healer thought Fatal Strike was HP based but I'm somewhat thinking it's 1 Million damage before any mitigation and what not, and then increases with his stacks. Anyone idea on how the Damage works Eddy or anyone else?

[Deleted]

You know, it is health based. Each time last stand was up it hitted for 800k instead of ~600k. That makes me wonder if I should ungem again for tonight, because you lose value on absorbs, or having a better buffer for melee swings makes it worth the stam... %CDs are only good for the white damage, but that was fairly apparent. So, % health reduced only with absorbs.

I think I will regem to mast again.

[Deleted]

Hmm I'm not entirely sure how it works, I'll have to check some logs and find out

[Deleted]

You know, it is health based. Each time last stand was up it hitted for 800k instead of ~600k. That makes me wonder if I should ungem again for tonight, because you lose value on absorbs, or having a better buffer for melee swings makes it worth the stam... %CDs are only good for the white damage, but that was fairly apparent. So, % health reduced only with absorbs.

I think I will regem to mast again.

Well, i'm sure having a big base of HP is nice... But ye, if it's HP based then atleast in P1 having to much HP hurts them healers in their mana faces. P2 a nice buffer aint bad though...

---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 12:30 PM ----------

Edit#2
Also, DPS meta o_O? Trust me, you will be so thankful for using the tanking one in phase 2, its an absolute life saver:P
WeakAura for easy tracking if you dont have it already for the Meta Proc so you dont have to call for a CD
http://pastebin.com/HHFAwYzu

Noticed this Edit a tad late, in 10 man it's pretty standard to run DPS meta as generally there is so little actual physical damage. I'm not sure if affects Fatal Strike (dont think it does) but the melees in Phase 2 seems to be ~350K if I look at some logs from a warrior that killed it. Granted maybe i should switch to give healers a break, it can also in P1 just make me lucky and stay high enough for a fatal strike I gues.

But it's less scumbaggy then it sounds really!

The healer that told me it's HP based;

It is a flat 75% dmg done, doesn't get increased with his stacks and what not

He's basing it on DN and what not, and it does sound pretty logical, afterall we'd die if it did scale with the % based buff he gains... just no way i'd survive 75% (around 615K on my hp pool which sounds about rightl) + 50% (that's not even the highest he'll go after all) = 922K.

So i'm going to have to give him credit for beeing right, FUCK!

[Deleted]

Actually i was under the impression that Fatal Strike simply does 100% of your hitpoints and ignores absorb & damage reduction except for those mentioned in the tooltip (Shield Block, Shield of the Righteous, Shuffle, Blood Shield, or Savage Defense). Thus adding more stamina does nothing for you, actually making your healers job harder to a) healing you back up directly b) lowering the physical damage reduction overall via less mastery indirectly. Else you could almost ignore it when you stack plain stamina which isn't the intention of this mechanic.

Sadly i can't comment on gearing for Ra-Den, i'm benched for him after all (hail Monk!)

[Deleted]

Well for p1, no I'm pretty sure it doesn't reduce fatal strike damage but for phase 2 the tanking meta really is a godsend imo, will also mean your healers can focus on the raid and believe me they will need to^^
I'll do some testing this week anyway to find out exactly how fatal strike works if someone hasn't got rock solid proof already, outside of it insta gibbing it was never really a major issue anyway
The deaths I saw you taking from it were just the combined stalker damage doing crackle + fatal strike which can be easily fixed with a pally stun... or shockwave if you are feeling daring:P

[Deleted]

Actually i was under the impression that Fatal Strike simply does 100% of your hitpoints and ignores absorb & damage reduction except for those mentioned in the tooltip (Shield Block, Shield of the Righteous, Shuffle, Blood Shield, or Savage Defense).

Nah, that's wrong for sure since:

a) Nothing get's blocked (And then it should sometimes hit for -60% instead of -30%)
b) If you do not have shield block up, it'll deal damage, and THEN even if you don't die it "kills" you.

The latter makes it easy to see if you fucked up, or if your healers didnt have you high enough to begin with.

For example on try X it hit me for 600K, i had 200K left and then died from fatal strike in the logs.
On try Y it hit me for 700K, and I died Still didnt have block up but even if I did it wouldnt have saved me.

---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 01:45 PM ----------

The deaths I saw you taking from it were just the combined stalker damage doing crackle + fatal strike which can be easily fixed with a pally stun... or shockwave if you are feeling daring:P

Fucking healers! ;-)

Shockwave.... rather not.... Started hating that ability ever since they gave it a 40 sec cooldown when ti doesnt hit 3 things... even on Lei Shen it pisses me off endlessly >.< Maybe I should just yell @ my boomies to silence that piece of shit since afaik silences work right?

---------- Post added 2013-06-25 at 01:58 PM ----------

FS 1: your HP its dmg:
819k - 608k (+ 5,6k absorbed)
2
819k - (44k + 570k absorbed)
3
819k - 610k (+ 4k absorbed)
3 Fatal strikes from my deathnote of you at our last try
If it isnt 75% of your health in dmg.......... then I dont know what it is
When you died after getting ressed:
750.405 HP - 16278 dmg + 546.526 absorbed (+ killed sinced you didnt have stuff up)

So, it's pretty much 75% of my HP, and no matter how far into the fight either it seems to not scale with anything, or get reduced by anything (other than absorbs).

I think we can close the chapter on FS and simply say;

Deals 75% of your max health and can only be mitigated by absorbs. If your active mitagation is not up when you take the damage, the ability kills you even if you survived the hit.

[Deleted]

PhoenixStyle's Death reporter shows exactly what it is, will say [Instakill] if you failed, otherwise it will show a melee swing and some overkill ^^

I'm not entirely sure if solarbeam works, I imagine we would be doing that if it did =s We just use moonkins to knock the add out as it dies to avoid aoe'ing people

[Deleted]

PhoenixStyle's Death reporter shows exactly what it is, will say [Instakill] if you failed, otherwise it will show a melee swing and some overkill ^^

Yes and no, The damage is ALWAYS dealt, only shows InstaKill if you survived the intial blow & didnt have anything up. Or atleast thats how Deathnote shows it. Check is about 0.5 secs after the actual blow is dealt.

Wouldn't mind if someone could confirm silences do not work on the adds, as I think they're trying atm...

Looking @ notes some more, weakend blows seems ignore. Any other % based reduction doesn't work BUT Demo shout does seem to affect it.... :-\

[Deleted]

Heh, at last one thing that makes better having Demo Shout applying to the boss instead of the player. Hope you had luck, we left it at 8%, both times entering with people dead due to stupid shit. On the 11 tries I had always rage enough to pull a Sblock one sec before, put the rest of the rage on a barrier and build up to ~80-90 (120/120 rage when Demo was up). Never had a problem this time, so I reckon that it's a matter of getting used to the timing. No reason to leave sbar out then.

Can't help but wonder if this boss would have died bringing much higher and better dps and healing with those other tank classes, but... well, as long as the next tier is better, let us forget the numbers on this one. Maybe next week I will dare to execute.