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  1. #1

    Returning to GW2--how's the class balance these days?

    I left GW2 sometime around last Christmas (in the middle of the big event, even). I had a ranger and loved it (still do), but I played mostly support, and you try convincing people that rangers can fill an amazing support role to a bunch of people that think guardians and warriors are the only two classes worth playing in the entire game (back then, this was a very common, and very popular idea). Sadly, I've rolled both of those, and I did find them to be more... powerful, which had me discouraged because I don't like the playstyle of either. I'm pretty sure this is one of many reasons I eventually quit. I also strictly remember thieves being absolutely ridiculous in WvW (holding points against an entire army of people with no effort via stealth tricks), with mesmers not far behind (portals + army = lag death).

    So. Has class balance improved any? From what I remember, every engineer I knew quit their class to roll something else, and the one elementalist I knew eventually gave up for a guardian after months of complaining about the class dying a slow death. (I can't say how or why, I wasn't one myself.)

    I was thinking that if I did return, I'd try out something I haven't done much and begin fresh--engineer, elementalist, necromancer, ect--but those were least appreciated classes the last time around, and I don't want to walk into a class only to regret it later. Has balance changed any?

  2. #2
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
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    There is (was?) a giant patch today that made lots of changes to professions and their traits. Don't know if it helps you, since I'm new to the game myself, but you can read the notes here:

    https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/foru...June-25th-2013

    Maybe you'll find some good news in that.

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  3. #3
    Holy wow. Thanks for that update, so much has changed! And for the better it would seem. Took a look at the ranger, and very happy to see they finally changed the spirits, I was a spirit build and found it quite frustrating at times. Great link, thanks for that. It does help.

  4. #4
    PvP seems allright, or at least better than it was.

    PvE is kind of messed up, some classes still do like 3 times the dps of others and condition builds don't really work because of caps and objects with no debuff slots.
    Last edited by laserguns; 2013-06-26 at 10:41 AM.

  5. #5
    Thought I'd ask here instead of creating a new topic: is there a PvE "endgame" in GW2? What it's like?
    I played for a month or so after release, got to 60 and stopped. My problem was that dungeons were total crap and there seemed to be no real "endgame" in PvE - just a couple of completely retarded instances (as I was told) and that's it. Now I'm thinking about playing GW2 again, but it just seems like the only thing that actually exists in this game is PvP and I'm a PvE player.

  6. #6
    depends on what type of end game you want, it's not a bimodal game.

    If you are looking for raiding, might as well not even bother.

  7. #7
    Moderator Fhi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlowingInTheDark View Post
    Thought I'd ask here instead of creating a new topic: is there a PvE "endgame" in GW2? What it's like?
    I played for a month or so after release, got to 60 and stopped. My problem was that dungeons were total crap and there seemed to be no real "endgame" in PvE - just a couple of completely retarded instances (as I was told) and that's it. Now I'm thinking about playing GW2 again, but it just seems like the only thing that actually exists in this game is PvP and I'm a PvE player.
    There is no "endgame" in the traditional sense. All content is (are?) available to you very early in the game, often as early as level 2 once you get out of the intro. If you don't enjoy the "retarded" dungeons, the fractals, the pvp, and the WvWvW, then this game is not for you. If you are looking for competitive organized content, you're better off looking elsewhere.

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  8. #8
    Got it, thanks.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Fhi View Post
    There is no "endgame" in the traditional sense. All content is (are?) available to you very early in the game, often as early as level 2 once you get out of the intro. If you don't enjoy the "retarded" dungeons, the fractals, the pvp, and the WvWvW, then this game is not for you. If you are looking for competitive organized content, you're better off looking elsewhere.
    i would be more specific with you last statement, case in point WvW can be competitive organized content, same with tPvP. if you mean competitive "raiding" content then yes you are correct, at least for the moment.
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  10. #10
    I just came back after a 3 month hiatus and it's surprising how little the game has actually evolved in the past year.

    Sure, ANet is great in patching in new events, but they all follow the same established pattern.

    Game-play is as stale and grindy as ever. People as still farming CoF day in, day out and the Dragon encounters can still be completed while alt-tabbed to Desktop. WvW is the same old zerg-circle wars with surprisingly little PvP. I am always amazed how long it actually takes for me to accumulate the 10 daily WvW kills for the achievement.

    Ascended Gear is still poorly conceived and only catering to the 8 pre-established build and play-styles.

    I must admit I was impressed by the amount of balance changes in the last patch especially but at the end of the day it really doesn't seem to change much about the game. The Thief I play today feels and plays identically to the Thief I created 10 months ago.

    I was hoping ANet might evolve the game but they seem to be content with just adding more and more hollow events to the game. But I guess that's what happens when the cash-shop is your main incentive.

  11. #11
    ^ I feel the problem with thief is that after beta, they ditched their original vision of the class. There was a point when people complained that there wasn't much a difference between thief and ele, except that ele did more. So they gave the thief tools to be.... a run-of-the-mill rogue. It became dependent upon stealth and burst, and once you go down the road you end up heading straight towards gameplay misery.

    So I think they need to find their original, more varied idea for the thief or just redesign the philosophy behind the class. As long as its stealth, poke and hide, the class won't see much growth.

    I will say that Guild Missions, reward improvements, new systems and WvWvW XP has evolved the game. The core will always be the same, but a lot of new systems have been added since launch. It does seem that whenever people ask, they routinely say they are focused on improving the core game, and at some point I imagine they will spread out from that focus.

    If you're looking for the area of the game with the most change, then you'll find it in WvW. I imagine you've just had bad match-ups or not run with an organized group. The zerg v zergs have a lot more tactics and group-based builds involved than the average player realizes. I run some Mesmer builds in WvWvW that are useless outside of that mode, but highly effective in large scale pvp fights.

    Just to expand upon that, I run maybe two Mesmer builds in PVE and two or three in tPVP. In WvWvW, I have around five or six builds that I run depending on what I plan to do.
    Last edited by zed zebes; 2013-07-08 at 12:35 AM.

  12. #12
    Class balance is probably the worst I have seen in any game over my 20 years+ gaming "career". So many unviable playstyles that are perfectly fine in other games that it is beyond pathetic. The "giant" patch two weeks ago changed barely anything. Warriors just had to buy an axe if they didn't have one already, spend 2 minutes on re-aranging their traits and then continue shitting on everyone else.

    You want to play a condition-based class? Alias warlock archetype. Sorry, conditions are STILL completely broken, when fixing them is so easy... So if you don't like melee daggers on necromancer, you might as well delete him and reroll warrior like everyone else. Or you will be laughed at and kicked from groups/have trouble finding groups.

    You want to play a ranged class? (archer, sharpshooter archetypes). Sorry, your damage will be shit no matter how good you play. You will be laughed at and kicked from groups/have trouble finding groups.

    You want to play a "nuke mage" archetype? Sorry your elementalist will HAVE to use fucking melee daggers to do decent damage. Or you will be laughed at and kicked from groups/have trouble finding groups.

    Problem is, many classes have barely any viable end-game builds with this "balance". Namely necromancer, ranger, engineer, elementalist. You play engineer? And you want to do dungeons with him? But you hate the grenade toolkit? Does it make you want to break your keyboard and throw your monitor from window? Well sorry, grenades are the only viable option in PvE, have fun.

    If you think class balance and players elitism is bad in WoW. If you think I am overreacting. Then I suggest you head over to GW2guru forums or GW2 LFG website ("lfm CoF zerk warriors only" - die in fire please). The shit there will blow your mind.

    tldr: yes, warriors, guardians, and also mesmers are still the only classes worth playing unless you enjoy being permanent underdog.
    Every good deed shall be rightfully punished. *** If you want to have something done right, you have to do it yourself.

  13. #13
    Class balance is probably the worst I have seen in any game over my 20 years+ gaming "career". So many unviable playstyles that are perfectly fine in other games that it is beyond pathetic. The "giant" patch two weeks ago changed barely anything. Warriors just had to buy an axe if they didn't have one already, spend 2 minutes on re-aranging their traits and then continue shitting on everyone else.

    You want to play a condition-based class? Alias warlock archetype. Sorry, conditions are STILL completely broken, when fixing them is so easy... So if you don't like melee daggers on necromancer, you might as well delete him and reroll warrior like everyone else. Or you will be laughed at and kicked from groups/have trouble finding groups.

    You want to play a ranged class? (archer, sharpshooter archetypes). Sorry, your damage will be shit no matter how good you play. You will be laughed at and kicked from groups/have trouble finding groups.

    You want to play a "nuke mage" archetype? Sorry your elementalist will HAVE to use fucking melee daggers to do decent damage. Or you will be laughed at and kicked from groups/have trouble finding groups.

    Problem is, many classes have barely any viable end-game builds with this "balance". Namely necromancer, ranger, engineer, elementalist. You play engineer? And you want to do dungeons with him? But you hate the grenade toolkit? Does it make you want to break your keyboard and throw your monitor from window? Well sorry, grenades are the only viable option in PvE, have fun.

    If you think class balance and players elitism is bad in WoW. If you think I am overreacting. Then I suggest you head over to GW2guru forums or GW2 LFG website ("lfm CoF zerk warriors only" - die in fire please). The shit there will blow your mind.

    tldr: yes, warriors, guardians, and also mesmers are still the only classes worth playing unless you enjoy being permanent underdog.
    This is why GW2 is a bit of a fascinating study on gamers to me. Here we have a game where gear is almost meaningless, player skill is almost meaningless, class abilities are almost meaningless (DPS, Healing, Utility, etc...all pretty pointless to worry about in PvE) and the pinnacle of PvE content for most people is running CoF 1 in 6 minutes for gold. Yet somehow, people still manage to be every bit as elitist here as they are in heroic mode WoW raiding and such. =D

    On-topic, class balance is actually pretty fine. Players are generally just super-elitist jerks about their CoF P1 farming runs and "4 Warrior, 1 Mesmer" is the only thing that most players seem to think is viable at all, because otherwise the CoF P1 run might take 15 seconds longer.
    Last edited by Bovinity Divinity; 2013-07-08 at 04:02 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    This is why GW2 is a bit of a fascinating study on gamers to me. Here we have a game where gear is almost meaningless, player skill is almost meaningless, class abilities are almost meaningless (DPS, Healing, Utility, etc...all pretty pointless to worry about in PvE) and the pinnacle of PvE content for most people is running CoF 1 in 6 minutes for gold. Yet somehow, people still manage to be every bit as elitist here as they are in heroic mode WoW raiding and such. =D

    On-topic, class balance is actually pretty fine. Players are generally just super-elitist jerks about their CoF P1 farming runs and "4 Warrior, 1 Mesmer" is the only thing that most players seem to think is viable at all, because otherwise the CoF P1 run might take 15 seconds longer.
    "GW2 sucks, it has no endgame!"
    "GW2 sucks, too many specs aren't viable in endgame!"

    So, yeah.

  15. #15
    Not seeing your point there.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Not seeing your point there.
    Probably just summarizing what people say.

  17. #17
    Oh, yeah. Probably. =)

  18. #18
    I can play any class I like with any build and still have fun in both solo and group play. I have NEVER had anyone boot myself or anyone else from a group except in cases of prolonged disconnects. That said, I don't (nor wish to) belong to any "high end" guild that does run after run after run of the same dungeon. So, how is class balance? Could be better, but far from severely problematic unless you want to be involved in a seriously competitive group. If you just want to run dungeons and explore the world with friends, pugs, or reasonable people, it's fine and you'll have no limitations.

    Oh, and as to elitism, I have found GW2 to be the absolute friendliest MMO around in-game.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DSRilk View Post
    Oh, and as to elitism, I have found GW2 to be the absolute friendliest MMO around in-game.
    CoF p1 is probably the only exception to this. And even then you can still find groups for it that don't involve only warriors + mesmer.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    CoF p1 is probably the only exception to this. And even then you can still find groups for it that don't involve only warriors + mesmer.
    Arah path 2 end boss is another example. Other then that I can't think of anything where a zerk warrior or mesmer is "needed"

    I ran arah path 2 recently with a zerk warrior and he was literally useless until the last boss. He died more times then I could count and it wasn't from stupid mistakes it was zerker being practically useless.

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