‘Romanian wage slaves threatened with death in Germany’

[Wildtree]

After all these pages anyone have a number of how many bulgarians and romanians work legaly with legal jobs and dont get abused in western Europe compared to the abused ones who work legally/illegally?
Or is that of no interest in the smearing campaign?

Edit: how many of the abused ones are in countries with poor legislation like Ireland etc is also of interest.

Here's a graph with the official stats for 2012 rearding legal immigrants moving to Germany that year.



Interesting numbers, aren't they.
Now remember how Cybran tried to claim how it was a lie when I said 50% of the people in line at the welfare offices are from East Block countries....
Just add the numbers.. And then count 9.6% unemployed..

An article on the matter in the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21523319

---------- Post added 2013-06-30 at 08:36 AM ----------

Why you are in another country is completely irrelevant. Only one thing is important: You are a citizen to your home country with all the rights and duties that come with it. Therefore you are counted for votes because you can vote. When your country doesn't provide the means to do that anywhere on the globe, then yeah, travel back and try to change it but don't blame others for it.
Also why would you even need voting points in other countries? Never heard of voting by mail? In Germany you can even do that when you are in the country but for whatever reason can't leave your home on voting day (elderly people for instant). When all your foreign citizens would be properly registered (and not hiding somewhere illegally) it would be no problem to contact them about important matters at home to give them the opportunity to be part in the democratic pocess.
And if they still don't care enough to vote it's their country's problem and not the EU or Germany or whatever.

They are citizens. They count for votes. Period.

This makes me laugh so hard....
I am German, and I won't abandon my citizenship for multiple reasons. I live in the USA, and here are zero voting points for me. If I wanna vote, it's by mail. I can go to a consulate or the embassy. The nearest consulate would be a whooping 500 miles away from me, in Chicago, IL..
And you know what, I am fine with that.... It never crossed my mind, how my country would want to deprive me from my rights. So yeah, I totally agree with you.
As for voting itself.. I have not cast a single vote since I live in the US. Why? Because I find it wrong to "influence" the domestic matters, while I don't even live there at home. The matters are really way too small to consider my vote now extremely important. It's not that Germany is in danger of any nutcases getting voted into our congress.

[Cybran]

Almost 10% unemployed... No wonder we are pissed.

9.6 % is the lowest level of unemployment among any ethinicy.

http://www.economist.com/node/15641057

the unemployment rate among Turks was 23%

Turks who are the oldest and biggest immigrant population have 2.5 times higher unemployment rate, so don't spout bullshit.

Yes, I've been there. "Window shopping" there is a blast lol. And of course I've used the service as well, and it was excellent.

So you are part of the problem. You are part of the 1 million Germans that pay for sex every day. You are fueling the demand that makes German brothel owners trick women with false promises of legal work and force them into prostitution. You are just as much to blame as the politicians that collect the dirty money, traffickers that bring the women over, police that looks away and the public that doesn't speak out.

[Deleted]

Hi,

i wonder what some people think my home country is.

We are a democracy. We got a voted government. We are friends with israel. We got a democratic grundgesetz, which gives every german the same rights.

We are not living in caves, and also dont catch romanian people to do slave work for us.

If there are people doing that, they get jailed. As we are a constitutional state. People threatening others to death get jailed.

We are not the bad guys, we got a healthy social system. We are not living in dark houses without lights, also we left the middle age successfully and dont do inquisition against people who got other beliefs than anyone else got. Most of the germans are atheists, are informed about the political system they live in and got a good school knowledge about their surroundings.

---------- Post added 2013-06-30 at 10:41 PM ----------

I infact am scared about the way the USA are taking. Your government builds up systems to sniff our mails, our traffic, our telephone calls, which noone legitimated. Germany is a souverein country, and i dont believe the usa got any right to put their ears into our conversations.

What if you would care about your own problems?

Also i am scared about the religious system in the USA. The creationists. The tea party people. Those who think they "talk to god" when it comes to politics. Really, from my point of view exactly _that_ is middle age.

---------- Post added 2013-06-30 at 10:44 PM ----------

Lets talk about your NRA. An organization that sells weapons to people, which use them to kill school kids. What a scary idea. In my home country, arms are limited to excutive and clubs only, everyone who wants to bear an arm, has to do ask for a weapon license. I cant even think about the question how our society would look like if everyone would allowed to have half automatic guns.

[Ravenblade]

9.6 % is the lowest level of unemployment among any ethinicy.

http://www.economist.com/node/15641057


Turks who are the oldest and biggest immigrant population have 2.5 times higher unemployment rate, so don't spout bullshit.

To put a bit of context into context: Most and by that I mean almost all immigrant Turks live in former West Germany and Berlin [1] as do most immigrants. Not many are living in the East. The severity of the issue differs from state to state [2]. Some states or free cities like Berlin have a higher Turkish population than others. Most statistics are citing spike unemployment in regions with high Turkish population. If you are spreading that number to the total population it will seem smaller. For that matter the supposedly low unemployment of less than 6% does not include the lower end of jobs, time-limited employments and others. What is usually being blamed is the lack of integration politics and a failed multicultural experiment. Quite a lot of them - even those being here since decades - do not even speak German or have any real connection to the outer world as they are living sometimes in tightly-knit communities which care a lot more about their own than the traditions of their host country which is sometimes escalating in things like honour murders. There have been several moves to try to curb the problem but as I see it it's still too early to make assessments about them. It helps if companies start treating them like citizens not like immigrants who will leave any minute. It also helps if companies stop being hypocrites and cite Islam as incompatible with their completely secular and business-oriented company philosophies. In general though more than 40% still prefer to stay here and try their luck rather than going back and not facing any better future. Since they are as you said the oldest immigrant population there is also a much higher awareness of this issue and believe me the topic is still hot and argued about in media, politics and public debates.

So you are part of the problem. You are part of the 1 million Germans that pay for sex every day. You are fueling the demand that makes German brothel owners trick women with false promises of legal work and force them into prostitution. You are just as much to blame as the politicians that collect the dirty money, traffickers that bring the women over, police that looks away and the public that doesn't speak out.

Actually it's 1.2 million customers not 1.2 million Germans. Many of the customers are also coming from the USA and Asia. Germany is not the only country where prostitution is legal. It is however a country where the legalisation happened without a regulatory framework. The lack thereof caused the increase of trafficking. In general however the decriminalization was done ironically in order to reduce what is happening at the moment. They wanted to draw the line between legal and illegal business and as it happens without regulations many a things can be legal.
Also keep in mind the owners are sometimes nationalized Germans with immigrant background and ties to the home countries they get their prostitutes from. We also still have illegal brothels still which are especially run by that kind of people.

As it happens the oldest business in the world can be seen as problem which needs to be subdued or can be seen as problem which needs to be regulated and controlled. Realistically you will have to choose between a lesser evil. Meaning I prefer a regulation or control over illegal business and more people travelling abroad like to Thailand instead. A place outside of jurisdiction of Germany where they could do much worse like child abuse.

[Mayhem]

Plus 88% of 46% is not 25%+1 of 100% no matter how you do the numbers. What was needed to oust the President was 25%+1 of the total electorate. That didn't happen, thus by Romanian laws themselves, the referendum was defeated.

though i have no clue of what actually was needed to get the president out, i´m pretty sure that 88% of 46% is more than 25% of 100%

for 25% you´d need only 50% of 50%, right? so we do some maths and tada 88% of 46% represents 40,5 % of 100%

[Cybran]

though i have no clue of what actually was needed to get the president out, i´m pretty sure that 88% of 46% is more than 25% of 100%

for 25% you´d need only 50% of 50%, right? so we do some maths and tada 88% of 46% represents 40,5 % of 100%

It's not about the numbers. It's about the support that our corrupt politicians get from the EU.

http://www.novini.bg/uploads/news_pi...iqta-21521.jpg

http://argumenti-bg.com/imgs/bulgari...sov_merkel.jpg

The body guard of the dictator Jivkov and Merkel are best buddies.

http://sofiaglobe.com/2013/06/18/bul...orum-in-sofia/

The leader of the European Socialists is the child of a Bulgaria and Ukranian communist party members. He is a front for Putin's interests in our country. He is a puppet of the Corporate Investment bank that has ties with the Russian Oligarchy. How does such a person become leader of the Party of European socialist???

When people wanted to join the EU they hoped that these people would end up in prison, but instead these criminals get legitimacy just because they do what Markel and Martin Schulz want. This is why people are disillusioned with the European Union and want to cut their losses and get out.

[Mayhem]

It's not about the numbers. It's about the support that our corrupt politicians get from the EU.

well it´s both i guess? without the votes, they wouldn´t be in politics now would they?

[Ashalar]

[QUOTE=Yilar;21571908]Would gladly see Romania + Bulgaria kicked out of the Union. There's nothing positive about these countries, they are generally corrupt and a bunch of thiefs.
And saying this ,your opinion is based on what?There are thieves in every single country,but none generalize for a whole country.Yes im romanian and a proud one about but seeing opinions like that based on s*it news from tv and newspapers makes me sick.Come live here meet some of the romanians and then talk shit on forums about us dude.

[Maelle]

It's not that Germany is in danger of any nutcases getting voted into our congress.

Ok, this is possibly one of the funnier things I have seen written on the internet today XD

[Ashalar]

Jurnalul National is a piece of shit, like all the papers in Romania. Toilet journalism on toilet paper.

Poverty in Romania is highly overstated. It's poverty compared to the western standards, but it's no way near the real poverty, like Africa or India or the Rio slums or whatever. In general, poverty in Romania actually means you can eat and drink, but you can't buy much of anything else, like the last iPhone every time hits the market.




As for you, you are just a fucking idiot, an ignorant screaming his ignorance without realizing how little his brains actually function. Romania and Bulgaria are in EU exactly because they are underdeveloped and so the greedy western companies can find not only a huge mass of people willing to work for much lower salaries than idiots like you, but also a huge market to sell their shit without taxes. All that without going to China on the other side of the stupid planet.

Romania and Bulgaria are not part of EU because of some act of pity, oh no. And saying Romanians and Bulgarians are a bunch of thieves is like saying Dutch are a bunch of crack heads because there are legal drugs there or Belgians a bunch of pedophiles, because we had like several dozens of them being caught here with their little dick in our children, or the Danish are fucking retarded because I just met e fucking retard on the internet. I bet you haven't met any Romanian until now, and here's my message to you: fuck you, stereotype driven ass fucked retard...

It's like you thinked with my brain +100000 internets,generalizing things like that,Jesus.

[Stir]

It's like you thinked with my brain +100000 internets,generalizing things like that,Jesus.

The hypocrisy is strong with these two.

[Cybran]

well it´s both i guess? without the votes, they wouldn´t be in politics now would they?

They are part of the Oligarchy. They control the media. They buy their way into parliament, like Berlusconi.

[Deleted]

They are part of the Oligarchy. They control the media. They buy their way into parliament, like Berlusconi.

They are just amateurs compared to Berlusconi

[Slant]

Romania and Bulgaria are not part of EU because of some act of pity, oh no. And saying Romanians and Bulgarians are a bunch of thieves is like saying Dutch are a bunch of crack heads because there are legal drugs there or Belgians a bunch of pedophiles, because we had like several dozens of them being caught here with their little dick in our children, or the Danish are fucking retarded because I just met e fucking retard on the internet. I bet you haven't met any Romanian until now, and here's my message to you: fuck you, stereotype driven ass fucked retard...

But it is an act of pity! And dutch are crackheads, one of them recently confirmed it for me. And Belgians are pedos, everyone knows that... But you are right, the Danish aren't retarded. They're DYNAMITE! I've met Romanians in Germany. They're either seeking asylum and live beyond what people would consider poverty or they're criminals. I've yet to meet a respectable Romanian in Germany. But then, I'm sure I only circulate amongst the wrong people. :P

Btw, how bad must it be in Romania, if they come here to prefer living in what we consider poverty? Oh and begging on the streets. I'd send them packing if Romania was strong economically, but the way they look, I pity them and am happy they can make some sort of sad living here. Romania must be really bad if they prefer begging to being in Romania. Just something for you to think about while you flame everyone.

[Wildtree]

And saying this ,your opinion is based on what?There are thieves in every single country,but none generalize for a whole country.Yes im romanian and a proud one about but seeing opinions like that based on s*it news from tv and newspapers makes me sick.Come live here meet some of the romanians and then talk shit on forums about us dude.

I absolutely agree with you. It's an embarrassment for anyone to label an entire Nation, or like in this case two nations, with a negative stamp. It's a rather stupid approach, because all in all no society is any different from the other. Only their the political and cultural aspects vary. Aside from that, it's all human beings with all their strength and weaknesses.

Now, where I am sure that what you say is absolutely true, and there are great people where you live, and also great people that are coming to the West... But is it possible that the opening of the borders draws a high amount of not so nice and criminal people out, to move to the Western countries? Higher as usual?

Ok, this is possibly one of the funnier things I have seen written on the internet today XD

I see what you, or better what I did there.

9.6 % is the lowest level of unemployment among any ethinicy.

http://www.economist.com/node/15641057

The headline and content of that article make no sense whatsoever.
Like with the example above, where Ashalar got involved. You are doing the same thing. You have a natural hatred against the West, and Germany in particular. You basing this on random articles of questionable sources. Yet apparently you don't know what's really going on.
When I moved to the USA, the unemployment rate in Germany was at a staggering 13%. At that time the fall of the wall wasn't too long ago.
We were still (our government) trying to figure out, how we are going to pay for all of this. How we are going to give work to those even more unemployed people from Germany East.... No one knew exactly how to do this. Mind you, it was an entire country with 25 million people in it, which we had to pick up from the ground. An infrastructure which was about 30 years behind our own. Integrating all of this, and bring it up to our standards, a damn expensive task. This was (or is - it's still in progress) a task which was clear that every single West-German had to literally pay for. Solidarity-Fee was created. Taken out of our paychecks. Cuts on retirement implemented. Cuts on Healthcare implemented. Cuts on Welfare implemented. Dramatic cuts on unemployment benefits implemented. Creation of the Hartz-IV agreement (1 Euro hourly wage for unemployed people to reintroduce them into the workforce) Our entire social net, for which we pay amongst the highest taxes in whole Europe, cut and stripped here and there.
And then came the EU regulation, that tore the borders down. More load. Not too much though. Because Germans moved to other West European countries too... It leveled out.. The real problem however came with the integration of countries that were or are on the same level as East Germany once was. More immigrants... What are they suppose to do? We have high unemployment without them already.
Do you think the Americans would be happy If I came here, just to be unemployed? So this article is crap, sorry...
If we were to employ every immigrant who comes to Germany, and if we'd give them priority, then what about the Germans? It would be okay for you if the immigrants had 0 unemployment, but the Germans would sit at around 20% or more? Hell no.....
As an immigrant, I say: Get your facts in order, do your homework, and move when you know that you DO get or even have a job in the country you move to, otherwise leave your ass where it is. Learn about the system in place if you aren't familiar with it. A capitalistic country has also a capitalistic competitive job market. In order to get a job, you have to be better than the next guy. And in our case we are talking about Germany, with one of the highest trained (if not the highest at all) workforce on the planet.
No, we are not underusing any immigrants. We would be better off if they wouldn't even come... They cost us money, a lot of money.

Btw. Your article is OLD, outdated and absolutely wrong... The unemployment rate for Berlin is 11.6% and not 23%.
Here is the correct list by states. Berlin is a city-state. Neukölln is a district, a part of the city. Pulling stats from a district is complete bullshit, really. You can go ahead and pull the unemployment rates for any city, and then pull those from the slums or low income districts since I can't think of any European city that has any slums, of those cities and you will always have a higher number.


http://de.statista.com/statistik/dat...undeslaendern/

Rather detailed stats are here:
http://statistik.arbeitsagentur.de/S...der-201201.pdf

It shows for Romania an unemployment rate of 0.9%..
These stats are from 2009. It takes some time for broken down stats to be officially determined and released. This is the official government agency release.
Turks have a 32.2% unemployment rate AMONGST all immigrants/foreigners.. Naturally, since they are also - like you said - the largest population with 1.658 mio. The percentages are related and broken down from the total of immigrants being unemployed, and how many of them are from particular countries.
What these detailed stats show us is, that Romanians have zero to complain. Their stats are below average. And apparently they are well prepared and good workers too.

So you are part of the problem. You are part of the 1 million Germans that pay for sex every day. You are fueling the demand that makes German brothel owners trick women with false promises of legal work and force them into prostitution. You are just as much to blame as the politicians that collect the dirty money, traffickers that bring the women over, police that looks away and the public that doesn't speak out.

How did I know that was coming...
But no.. I am not part of the problem. Unless of course, they trafficking Scandinavians now to Germany. Cause that's where I was, when I was in Frankfurt.. A chick from Sweden. The police doesn't look away here... You again have no clue. I explained the problems at hand..
It's quite easy to smuggle things and even people in a country that has no borders up for the majority of it's territory. It has to be caught once it's already here.
You keep lacking credible sources that proof your otherwise hatred.

[Ravenblade]

[...]
When people wanted to join the EU they hoped that these people would end up in prison, but instead these criminals get legitimacy just because they do what Markel and Martin Schulz want. This is why people are disillusioned with the European Union and want to cut their losses and get out.

Being best buddy doesn't help if you have no popular support in a democracy. If a primary reason for joining the EU was political justice then I don't know what to say other than: Wow, what a huge gamble that was! This is why I was critical and still am about eastwards expansion of the EU. A lot states were still in transition process of post-communist times and still haven't come to terms with their past. Meaning a lot people with ties to the former regime still had significant influence. They just changed flags, colours and ideologies. Of course people with a like-minded ideology even from outside will show solidarity because of that while completely ignoring the past unless you really were involved in something even they have a dislike for. That these people reigned and stayed in power prior to joining is hardly thanks to the EU especially if people could have said: "No, he is just an old Stalinist posing a reborn democrat" but they did not. Which meant any plans laid out with the EU were so much easier to execute. Now that you are in the EU gaining and maintaining influence is so much easier now. The only way to get rid of it would be brute force. Sure you could hope for cutting losses just as you hoped for political justice. But I would not bet it on it. You would have to go through a phase of isolation and purge [of EU influence] in order to sort out whatever outstanding issues you had meanwhile - who knows what happens meanwhile economically after you cut all ties to the EU. You'd have to resort to countries like Russia which means open the gates to oligarchs through the backdoor.

[Deleted]

Some Rumanians are wandering from door to door to collect some money with either "baby has xyz disease, need money" or "for flood victims" as reason.

Seems totally legit because the only word they can say in german is "hello", then they hold a paper with 2-3 google-translated sentences on it in front of your face and hope you give them some money. Their baby is with them ofc ("Your poor child, I will give you all my money").
I guess that is why they have so many babies, then everyone in their family can carry a baby as bonus on their begging tour.

But the best one was a 17-19 year old guy with Nike shoes & Ed Hardy shirt begging for money to help the local flood victims. Our city was slightly affected by the flood, hah!

Cultural enrichment at its best!

[Cybran]

What these detailed stats show us is, that Romanians have zero to complain. Their stats are below average. And apparently they are well prepared and good workers too.

They are. Just like most European immigrants moving to Germany they are young and eager to work. Spanish nurses, Greek engineers, Romanian IT specialist and many others are driven by lack of prospects at home into Northern Europe where a large part of them falls victim to abusive employers and crime rings.

A lot these people would be able to fill the 200 000 skilled worker spots currently vacant in Germany, but they are instead locked liked animals in old Army barracks and in train caravan next to asparagus farms to do the dirty work.

[Ravenblade]

They are. Just like most European immigrants moving to Germany they are young and eager to work. Spanish nurses, Greek engineers, Romanian IT specialist and many others are driven by lack of prospects at home into Northern Europe where a large part of them falls victim to abusive employers and crime rings.

A lot these people would be able to fill the 200 000 skilled worker spots currently vacant in Germany, but they are instead locked liked animals in old Army barracks and in train caravan next to asparagus farms to do the dirty work.

Not all Romanians working on German asparagus farms are held like slaves you know and not all of them are unhappy about working there either. http://www.swp.de/ulm/lokales/alb_do...rt4299,1483274

[Deleted]

They are. Just like most European immigrants moving to Germany they are young and eager to work. Spanish nurses, Greek engineers, Romanian IT specialist and many others are driven by lack of prospects at home into Northern Europe where a large part of them falls victim to abusive employers and crime rings.

A lot these people would be able to fill the 200 000 skilled worker spots currently vacant in Germany, but they are instead locked liked animals in old Army barracks and in train caravan next to asparagus farms to do the dirty work.

looks like you mix all the stuff you read about "your country budds" together. people that flee are put into this "old army barracks" because they are here to hide and cant speak any word german or even english. they have like 0 chance to live a normal life here but thats not the fault of the western europe or germany.

also you blame other countrys that Romanians are abused after they left Romania, while the romanian politics doesnt care why or where. The stuff you complain about is illegal here and nobody supports it besides some criminal assholes that are everywhere in the world. The people could search for help but they would be asked to leave the country or even be kicked out. you know, illigal imigrants.

The wester europe/ germany doesnt force the people to do the dirty work as you call it. they could go easylie back to Romania and maybe thats the problem, cause they dont want to go back.