Soooo i tried combat with 4 pieces yesterday...

[D3athsting]

Single target dmg is fine, (maybe better than muti), aoe burst and sustained is very good but...i had to stop it coz i was sweating and i don't want to get carpal tunnel, a retarded button mashing spec right now, more than ever before...

[OneSent]

I completely agree. Combat used to be my favorite spec, but the amount of effort it takes to keep from energy capping just sucks all the fun out of it. Ever since the 'haste affects energy regen' change in 4.0, I've dreaded playing the spec.

I really hope they come up with a better solution to the insane energy regen during Adrenaline Rush and periods of high haste other than "your GCD is reduced by .X seconds". Tampering with the GCD of a class that already has a 1-sec GCD is just ignoring the true problem.

They need to attack it from another angle. Either change the way Adrenaline Rush works or adjust the energy cost of our abilities. I know that a lot of it is psychological. We were always taught that energy capping is bad, and even though we're using up every GCD, it still feels like we're missing out on DPS.

I just feel like they haven't really taken the time to address the issue and instead, continue to give us bandaid fixes in the form of shorter GCDs.

[Battlebeard]

Combat gameplay is awesome, never been better or more fun. The 4 set is as close you can get to the glory days of Golad and Tiriosh. The energy regain of Assassination is the main reason I dont play that specc.

The only fix Combat need is to make Eviscerate renew Slice an Dice just like Envenom does in Assassination, it would give a nice Dps increase an hopefully make Combat compete with Assas Dps.

[shadowboy]

Battlebeard: no, and no. on both accounts.

[D3athsting]

Seriously how can ppl like combat? It feels like playing track and field games where you have to push one/two buttons as fast as you can to win, blizz needs to fix this cr** asap...

[Sesshou]

I like how your suggested fix is to make rogues more of a brain dead class... screw that. There are plenty of ways they can fix the dps gap (and they will certainly have to find one next tier unless the t16 4pc is going to again be ludicrously better for combat). I would like rupture damage massively buffed as one of my favorite options (though 4pc aside, you'd have to buff it far too much to even out dps if that was the only change).

And 4 set is absolutely nothing like the legendary proc... Legendary proc was spamming finishers non stop, and if you are saying this is like that because you are spamming abilities, regular AR already had you using special attacks just as often as a legendary proc before this 4pc.

Also, if you are serious about combat, get Auto Hot Key to avoid carpal tunnel / tiring out your fingers. Its mentioned in the combat thread on EJ.

[Warstar]

I like how your suggested fix is to make rogues more of a brain dead class... screw that. There are plenty of ways they can fix the dps gap (and they will certainly have to find one next tier unless the t16 4pc is going to again be ludicrously better for combat). I would like rupture damage massively buffed as one of my favorite options (though 4pc aside, you'd have to buff it far too much to even out dps if that was the only change).

And 4 set is absolutely nothing like the legendary proc... Legendary proc was spamming finishers non stop, and if you are saying this is like that because you are spamming abilities, regular AR already had you using special attacks just as often as a legendary proc before this 4pc.

Also, if you are serious about combat, get Auto Hot Key to avoid carpal tunnel / tiring out your fingers. Its mentioned in the combat thread on EJ.

Contacted a GM asking about auto hotkey/using something like a G15/razer naga type device that allows macros and they replied saying:

I received your ticket about cooldowns and third party programs, that I did!

Regardless of the rogue tier set issue, let me extrapolate it a bit for ya.

Let's say that you're playing whack-a-mole out at the Darkmoon Faire. At some point, no matter how good you are, you won't be able to hit all of the different targets that are up at one time.

That doesn't make it appropriate to enlist a second person's help to make sure you do indeed whack every mole that comes around.

This is the same feeling with third-party programs - they would effectively play the role of that second person, aiding and assisting you where other players would not have that capability. Your DPS is meant to be *your* DPS, not the DPS of you plus some other program.

This is only part of the reason why these programs are generally considered programs that'd net you a hefty penalty for use. That's about as detailed as we can get with it, though, - if you have to ask whether a program is safe to use or not, it's very likely something you'll want to stay away from.


Another way to think about it is this - while some folks may think it is *required* to use those programs to obtain the *highest theoretical maximum dps* available to a rogue... that may not the goal, really. The set may be designed to simply give you more time during your rotation, so that you might be able to fit in a different ability when you need to, depending on the mechanics of the fight that you're involved in.

Your goal won't necessarily be *highest theoretical maximum dps* - even in heroic raids, your goals vary from time to time. After all, dead dps does no dps, right? There's other things to consider, and the set bonus may just give you the freedom to work in those other goals without sacrificing too much of your dps.

Your goal will be to work with the other members of your raid to make sure the boss dies. If you're being required to be *highest theoretical maximum dps* because the boss won't die otherwise, that means the remaining members of your raid are probably slackin' somehow. o.O

On the other hand, if you're just lookin' to be the best DPS around... using a third party program to help with that, like I mentioned above, means that it isn't really your DPS, now, is it?

Hopefully that helps clear things up, but if you need any extra advice, you'll want to hit up the UI and Macros forums and talk with your fellow players. ^^;

Regards,

Game Master Kieulas

[Silent Earth]

For me, Combat is fun, but only to dabble in. After a night or two, I'm more than ready to switch back to Assassination.

[Gemo]

Combat is fun and all but it has turned into smash your buttons as fast you can now :|
Alot of damage is still passive with the huge amount of haste it needs to be more active

[Koji2k11]

well since i switched to mostly on haste on assassination over 10k haste and 7,4k mastery it kind of feels more fluid because of the etxra energy i get i wouldnt mind combat resetting SnD so you have time to rupture your target

[Deleted]

Your goal won't necessarily be *highest theoretical maximum dps* - even in heroic raids, your goals vary from time to time. After all, dead dps does no dps, right?

It's like he's trying to argue that he understands something he actually knows nothing or very little about.

Why throw us a 4set we can't utilize? We don't have 85 energy utility tools to wave around when we're capped, so, sorry.

On the other hand, if you're just lookin' to be the best DPS around... using a third party program to help with that, like I mentioned above, means that it isn't really your DPS, now, is it?

Yes, it actually is your dps.
Whether you're holding a button down or mashing it, it's all you.

It's like, what, we've got 3 options:
AutoHotkey - cool
Mash - go insane
Don't mash - shitty DPS

These sort of macros are used everywhere, and trying to argue about whether they're ethical or not is ridiculous.

[Kael]

These sort of macros are used everywhere, and trying to argue about whether they're ethical or not is ridiculous.

Unfortunately it's less a question of ethics and more "Blizzard reserves the right to suspend or terminate your account" if they decide at some point that AHK is, in fact, being used in a manner that violates the spirit of the game. Ethics matters on Blizzard's end, and what they decide matters on ours =(. That pretty well confirms that any automation - even for hitting the same key over and over - is "use at your own risk".

[jtstormrage]

It is personal choice but I hate Combat.

It was briefly tolerable in early MOP when haste was lower and you had to store cps and time finishers during Insight (and there was some skill to it) but it is back to being button smashing again and Insight is pretty much just a passive buff now, and the only timing to be the spec is waiting to use cds to line up with Insight.

They need to change the spec and make abilities hit harder and cost more energy and/or change ridiculous scaling with haste so we can gem Agi. I love the idea of Combat and KS and AR and really fun, but I hate the carpal tunnel button smashing.

[Deleted]

how can people like combat? Its fast and sometimes challenging to keep up the rotation. You are constantly doing something and have more to track than assassination. It feels like you really need some effort for doing high dps.

Why i think people like assassination? Its easy as hell, really slow paced and easy to max your dps. Maybe the spec that needs the least skill to beat other specs in the game. That is why I personally don't like it.

[Deleted]

Unfortunately it's less a question of ethics and more "Blizzard reserves the right to suspend or terminate your account" if they decide at some point that AHK is, in fact, being used in a manner that violates the spirit of the game. Ethics matters on Blizzard's end, and what they decide matters on ours =(. That pretty well confirms that any automation - even for hitting the same key over and over - is "use at your own risk".

Yep.

Well, personally I'd take a ban over a broken finger. I've had my share of Q3/UT.

[simjanes2k]

I thought the point of combat was to have a spec in WoW that feels like you're playing a fighting game or something. It's the only adrenaline, button-mashing, rapid-fire spec out of all of them. I kinda like that it's an option.

[Deleted]

I thought the point of combat was to have a spec in WoW that feels like you're playing a fighting game or something. It's the only adrenaline, button-mashing, rapid-fire spec out of all of them. I kinda like that it's an option.

I agree with this, I've played Combat all tier long and love the whole 100 actions per minute thing, I can't be putting up with the whole passively doing 300k dps while waiting for energy to regen in Assassination.

Once you get used too it and you have no signs of lag, it's not even that bad, even with 15k haste.

[theherecy]

how can people like combat? Its fast and sometimes challenging to keep up the rotation. You are constantly doing something and have more to track than assassination. It feels like you really need some effort for doing high dps.

Why i think people like assassination? Its easy as hell, really slow paced and easy to max your dps. Maybe the spec that needs the least skill to beat other specs in the game. That is why I personally don't like it.

It is easy but slow paced is a good thing, it allows for thinking about upcoming events and cooldowns etc. Now compare it to fire mages, who have less to do but constantly spam fireball when they have nothing else to do. It's mind-numbing and tiresome.

Assassination may be seen as simple but the concept of energy, combo points and no fillers is a good design. If they gave us redirect on a GCD, removed the redundancy of slice and dice, and threw in maybe another DOT this would amazing.

[Coldkil]

I don't like combat for 2 reasons:
- i played it from Vanilla since it was the only actual pve sepc available
- i don't like how it turned into the buttonmashing thing is it nowadays.

A personal opinion that can be disregarded on how i see rogue specs:
- assa should be more or less like it is now; slow paced, based on energy pooling and big hitting but high-costly moves but not dumb as hell as it is in current state.
- combat should be about not spamming the same three buttons but to use correctly a multitude of them - for the ones who tried dps monks, you got the idea; i think i said it alrady but that kind of priority system is somening i always craved for combat.
- subtlety should be less about istant damage and more on dots/buff management - i tend to look at it and ask myself "how would sub be if it was a little more like an affliction warlock?"; not to that extent, but we already have great burst maneuvers (shadow dance in primis) i'd like to see less snd and more dots. I liked a lot when i had to keep both hemo and rupture up; recuperate was odd imho but add another dot (blood siphon? shadow whatever?) instead of a self heal that does less damage and grants energetic recovery and you're done. More ramp up but pays off.

Hope you people like my ideas tbh Anyway personal tastes play a huge role.

EDIT: always in my mind the change of SnD into a combat-only finisher.

EDIT2: imho, cp generating moves should cost energy, while finisher should cost CP only. This way you can reduce haste impact on energy and make it a meaningful resource. Being full of energy because "now i can spam an ability every gcd" is a bad thing imho.

Planning ahead people, planning ahead. That's what makes a rotation interesting. You see the real difference between the ones that use big CDs on cooldown and the ones that work them to stack each other, waiting for the most favorable moment to use them.

[underdogba]

Contacted a GM asking about auto hotkey/using something like a G15/razer naga type device that allows macros and they replied saying:

[snip]

I think it's highly inappropriate for a GM to be launching into a lengthy dissertation on his personal opinions and patronizingly making assumptions about your intentions like that when what you asked is simply a straightforward question about game policy that could be answered with unambiguous precision in a single sentence.

A GM is just an entry-level customer service representative, and my overall reaction to that response is "stfu and answer the question receptionist".