Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
  1. #141
    Blademaster Kyubbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Cardiff, South Wales
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibu View Post
    Might add this to the 1st post:

    Beastmaster Hunter - http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/145964-readiness
    Marksman Hunter - http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/145965-readiness
    Survival Hunter - http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/145966-readiness

    We wont be getting this before rogues / shamans / druids / monks...If any RL has a bit of brains.
    I've seen a lot of people complaining about trinket #1 saying these are the cd's it affects. I would say your wrong and here's why:

    1 - There are only 5 abilities not 6, 2 of which are dps (which is pretty dire is you ask me, since when has a dps trinket affected survivability)

    2 - The spell is called Readiness

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyubbi View Post
    I've seen a lot of people complaining about trinket #1 saying these are the cd's it affects. I would say your wrong and here's why:

    1 - There are only 5 abilities not 6, 2 of which are dps (which is pretty dire is you ask me, since when has a dps trinket affected survivability)

    2 - The spell is called Readiness
    Actually, that is the right spell. It used to have stampede on it, but for some reason it's gone. Although the ptr still has stampede being reduced by it.

    Signature by Geekissexy Check out her Deviantart

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by hareu View Post
    Do you really think rapid fire cd reduced by 10 seconds, and the 15% chance of getting cobra strikes equals 50k damage? I really don't
    Do you even understand the basic of how DAMAGE/FOCUS work !!?
    Yes 1 KC does more damage then 1 AS. But if you spend 400% more focus on casting the same shot and then have to use cobra shit that hits for less then a wet noodle to regen focus to be able to cast another shot. Then it becomes WORSE.
    You have to loot at the situation over a longer time spam then 1 GCD.

    If you can shot 10 AS over 10 seconds. Or 1 KC,4 AS and 3 Cobra.. then 10x AS does a TON more damage. Aswell as proccing lots of auto crits on your pet and lower RF by an additional 60 seconds.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Do you even understand the basic of how DAMAGE/FOCUS work !!?
    Yes 1 KC does more damage then 1 AS. But if you spend 400% more focus
    BRB, let me go mastery > everything and come back claiming KC does tons more damage then AS. Unless you prove TotH is DPS gain over DB / Fervor, you claim is really pointless.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsoni View Post
    BRB, let me go mastery > everything and come back claiming KC does tons more damage then AS. Unless you prove TotH is DPS gain over DB / Fervor, you claim is really pointless.
    Most retarded argument ive heard in a long time. Yea.. lets go full mastery and do crazy KC crits, while nerfing the rest of your dps by several thousend.
    Again, its not KC VS AS, 1 GCD used. You need to look at the whole fight. AS does alot more damage for the focus spent. Hence why using KC during BW is a a big gain, and outside it is currently not. Its all about having to do max damage / focus so you need to use cobra shot as little aspossible cause of the abysmal damage it does.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Most retarded argument ive heard in a long time. Yea.. lets go full mastery and do crazy KC crits, while nerfing the rest of your dps by several thousend.
    Again, its not KC VS AS, 1 GCD used. You need to look at the whole fight. AS does alot more damage for the focus spent. Hence why using KC during BW is a a big gain, and outside it is currently not. Its all about having to do max damage / focus so you need to use cobra shot as little aspossible cause of the abysmal damage it does.
    This is not true, AS does the close to same damage per focus spent, eventualy a bit more with new weapons.

    Live:

    or 4117 per Focus for KC, or 3831 per AS. On PTR they increased the focus and damage by equal ammounts so the DPF remains the same. As i mentioned we will probably see AS equal out with better weapons. However the real question is, is 4x AS vs 3x KC worth losing 40 seconds of reduced Rapid Fire CD, i would think not.

  7. #147
    Arguing over napkin math about things that won't even be in 5.4 is a pretty useless debate.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Most retarded argument ive heard in a long time. Yea.. lets go full mastery and do crazy KC crits, while nerfing the rest of your dps by several thousend.
    Again, its not KC VS AS, 1 GCD used. You need to look at the whole fight. AS does alot more damage for the focus spent. Hence why using KC during BW is a a big gain, and outside it is currently not. Its all about having to do max damage / focus so you need to use cobra shot as little aspossible cause of the abysmal damage it does.
    It's as retarded as yours by using TotH - the lowest DPS talent of them all in that tier and then saying - KC uses 400% more then AS.
    By taking TotH you are nerfing your overall damage. It's by far the worst.

    AS, out - of - box, does roughly the SAME damage per focus spent when you are comparing it to KC. FPD did NOT change from live. Period.

    Only thing which might tip the scale towards AS is RF uptime with 2set bonus. Everything else is the same as on live (when we are talking about focus - to - damage).

  9. #149
    @Tsoni have you actually tryed PTR ? Or are you arguing about how it is on 5.3 live version ? ToTh is most likely THE most powerful talent we have with the changes to AS.
    @Kibu Again and for the LAST time, i dont give a SHIT about how it is on live. im talking purly about how it is in 5.4 and ptr atm. Im ranked sub 100 on every single HC fight in ToT, with a few sub 10 ranks. I know very well that KC have a higher DPE. But on ptr AS have a way higher DPF with ToTh. You have on avarage 70-75% uptime on ToTh. And because of this you have a near 100% uptime on RF on ptr.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    @Tsoni have you actually tryed PTR ? Or are you arguing about how it is on 5.3 live version ? ToTh is most likely THE most powerful talent we have with the changes to AS.
    @Kibu Again and for the LAST time, i dont give a SHIT about how it is on live. im talking purly about how it is in 5.4 and ptr atm. Im ranked sub 100 on every single HC fight in ToT, with a few sub 10 ranks. I know very well that KC have a higher DPE. But on ptr AS have a way higher DPF with ToTh. You have on avarage 70-75% uptime on ToTh. And because of this you have a near 100% uptime on RF on ptr.
    a) I never asked you about your ranks.
    b) ToTh does not have 70-75% uptime, its rather 20% lower, since it cant reproc of it self. Now if blizzard actualy changes it to what it should, e.g. actualy being able to refresh while its active. Then we might have a whole different story.
    c) The highest RF i had was around 65% over a cource of 100Mil parses.
    d) Im not arguing about how potent ToTH will be in 5.4. Yes it will most likely be strong.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    @Tsoni have you actually tryed PTR ? Or are you arguing about how it is on 5.3 live version ? ToTh is most likely THE most powerful talent we have with the changes to AS.
    @Kibu Again and for the LAST time, i dont give a SHIT about how it is on live. im talking purly about how it is in 5.4 and ptr atm. Im ranked sub 100 on every single HC fight in ToT, with a few sub 10 ranks. I know very well that KC have a higher DPE. But on ptr AS have a way higher DPF with ToTh. You have on avarage 70-75% uptime on ToTh. And because of this you have a near 100% uptime on RF on ptr.
    Actually, you're ranked as BM on 7 out of 13 fights, and twice on tortos (once as BM, once as surv). Your only sub-10 rank is Primordius which is entirely reliant on getting the correct stacks from the buffs, and you getting to barrage packs of adds for DPS-whoring. There's nothing majorly impressive about your ranks, sorry to say - and even then, ranking on fights doesn't mean your assumptions or math is correct. Untill we have the SIM's finished, we won't really know. It's all guesswork.

    Regardless, it seems to me like TOTH is not going to be the "strongest" for BM due to a few reasons:
    One, Dire Beast scales with BM mastery. TOTH does not. The reverse is true for survival, which is one of the reasons Surv will probably be using TOTH.
    Two, under Beastial wrath a portion of the TOTH benefit is lost (reducing 15 focus cost arcane shots with 20 focus = a fourth of the focus you "spend" is lost). Assuming BM uses the CD reduction trinket, you'll have an uptime resembling about 20% or so on BW.
    Three, BM would be facing heavy focus capping due to sporadic focus-influx from the pet-talent (the one that randomely gives you 20 focus when your pet attacks), and no way to bleed the focus off. Both MM and Surv's "passive focus regen" mechanics are far less bursty and more "constant" (surv being 3 focus everytime serpent sting ticks, for instance).

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Do you even understand the basic of how DAMAGE/FOCUS work !!?
    Yes 1 KC does more damage then 1 AS. But if you spend 400% more focus on casting the same shot and then have to use cobra shit that hits for less then a wet noodle to regen focus to be able to cast another shot. Then it becomes WORSE.
    You have to loot at the situation over a longer time spam then 1 GCD.

    If you can shot 10 AS over 10 seconds. Or 1 KC,4 AS and 3 Cobra.. then 10x AS does a TON more damage. Aswell as proccing lots of auto crits on your pet and lower RF by an additional 60 seconds.
    you have to account for losing dire beast, which is about 15k dps with it's attacks alone.

    also cobra shot + a kill command will give you as much damage as 2 arcane shots.


    Heres a little sheet I came up with, numbers say both methods will generally output the same amount of damage, except with kill command use you will most likely still use Dire beast, I didn't even add that in.






    50k - cobra

    150k - KC

    100k - KC





    180 focus (120 base + 5focus per second via haste = 60 over 12 seconds)


    Arcane Shot - 30 focus

    Kill Command - 40 focus





    KC USE-

    300k - Kc(2) (80 focus)

    300k - Arcane shots(3) (90 focus)

    100k - Cobra (2) (+30 focus)

    100k - Arcane shot(1) (30 focus)

    100k - Cobra (2) (+30 focus)

    100k - Arcane shot (30 focus)

    50k- Cobra (15 focus)

    1050k - total





    Arcane Spam-


    300k Arcane shots w/ TotH (3) (30 focus)

    300k Arcane shots (3) (90 focus)

    200k Arcane shots (2) (60 focus)

    100k Cobra shot (2) (+30 focus)

    100k Arcane shot (1) (30 focus)

    50k Cobra shot (1) (15 focus)

    1050k - total

    I gave arcane spamming a toth proc over the 12 seconds, seems about how often it goes, it's 30% chance to proc on focus costing abilities, you can maybe get 2 in there. but without adding in a talent for kill command usage I thought it was fair.
    Last edited by hareu; 2013-07-13 at 08:34 PM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Conando View Post
    Arguing over napkin math about things that won't even be in 5.4 is a pretty useless debate.
    And a waste of time.. you guys must be bored.

  14. #154
    sick trinkets, but 1 and 4 will be bis for the tier

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •