1. #1

    Level 85-90 weapons

    I'm going to be leveling my rogue. As usual I want to level as fast as possible through MOP. Which weapons are better to use. My legendaries, or dual http://www.wowhead.com/item=86519 for combat. I'm rather annoyed that out of all the boa swords theres no agility ones.
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  2. #2
    Brewmaster Cherrypowdah's Avatar
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    you can take the tanking sword, wich is what I'm currently doing on my rogue as your mainhand, and that dagger as your OH, most likely legendary daggers will outperform, though.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherrypowdah View Post
    you can take the tanking sword, wich is what I'm currently doing on my rogue as your mainhand, and that dagger as your OH, most likely legendary daggers will outperform, though.
    The legendary daggers have a really hard time keeping up through leveling. The end-proc remains powerful, but at an ilevel disadvantage, they fall behind quickly because of raw DPS concerns - 442/450s are WELL in the lead. Swap ASAP for any spec.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    The legendary daggers have a really hard time keeping up through leveling. The end-proc remains powerful, but at an ilevel disadvantage, they fall behind quickly because of raw DPS concerns - 442/450s are WELL in the lead. Swap ASAP for any spec.
    Does it matter if it's agility or not? I have the sky reaver sword. And I can upgrade it.

    Quote Originally Posted by turskanaattori View Post
    Why not 2x http://www.wowhead.com/item=87509 for combat? It's a higher ilvl.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  6. #6
    Agility > not agility, but by what margin will depend on your gear. Enough that a 442 > 450, but not so much that 416 legendary > 450 strength. Beyond that I'd have to check sims I'm not really willing to take the effort to run.

    With anything 450 (agility), you're into a narrower margin of quality... I wouldn't quibble over ideal stats in leveling gear, so yeah, FoF would be pretty classy for combat.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Agility > not agility, but by what margin will depend on your gear. Enough that a 442 > 450, but not so much that 416 legendary > 450 strength. Beyond that I'd have to check sims I'm not really willing to take the effort to run.

    With anything 450 (agility), you're into a narrower margin of quality... I wouldn't quibble over ideal stats in leveling gear, so yeah, FoF would be pretty classy for combat.
    Soo.....Get 2x FoF instead of using the Sky Reaver Sword?
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  8. #8
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=95391 upgraded to 471 IL should be good imo

  9. #9
    First things first; if you go Combat, you NEVER want a fast weapon in your MH…!

    For Combat, it had always been; MH = Slow (2.6) / OH = Fast (1.8)

    With the changes/normalization of Combat Potency, it is now also perfectly okay to go Slow (2.6) for both MH & OH…

    I leveled up my only toon when MoP first launched, and I used my Fangs of the Father all the way to 90, I did not bother upgrading them until I was basically in full dungeon blues & had a number of dungeon blue weapons to choose from…

    Also, getting at least dual Windsong enchants on the Legendary Daggers helps, and dual Dancing Steel enchants is even better. I am still somewhat miffed on the one iLevel difference between the Fangs of the Father & the minimum requirement for MoP gems…!

    I did go MH/Slow, OH/Fast until I got two Slow weapons, then I never looked back…
    Last edited by Boil; 2013-07-03 at 08:31 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellgrazr View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=95391 upgraded to 471 IL should be good imo
    Yeah I wasn't thinking in terms of names and didn't connect that it was a 463 (471), just got "strength" by context - at a 21 ilevel gap, go for it. 25% weapon DPS is just too much to give up in the main hand.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Yeah I wasn't thinking in terms of names and didn't connect that it was a 463 (471), just got "strength" by context - at a 21 ilevel gap, go for it. 25% weapon DPS is just too much to give up in the main hand.
    Man. I spent 2k on weapons last night after my last post. Now you tell me to use the Sky Reaver.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Man. I spent 2k on weapons last night after my last post. Now you tell me to use the Sky Reaver.
    I said that beyond an ~8ilevel gap you'd have to sim it or check for more information >.> Sorry to hear you're out 2k, though. The good news is, 2k really isn't a lot in MoP's market, and probably just about what I see from collecting lesser charms and clearing H ToT each week. If you haven't put them on yet there's always resale!

  13. #13
    If the discussion here is about high level weapons for leveling a rogue ALT, and you have archaeology available on 2 level 90 characters, I'd recommend going combat and using 2 of this, which can be upgraded to 471 with JP.

    2x 471 > anything else at level 85. strength or not.

    I used two of the sky reaver on my 85 warrior for a while. That character was a beast (I pulled 85k dps on a baleroc run as a level 85 warrior--at 436ish item level).

    The sky reaver is REALLY easy to farm. Just solve 1 pandaria artifact, then use the restored artifact to buy the thing that allows all of your dig sites to be mantid ones for 24 hours (you need to be exalted with lorewalkers to buy the item).
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2013-07-04 at 07:44 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    I said that beyond an ~8ilevel gap you'd have to sim it or check for more information >.> Sorry to hear you're out 2k, though. The good news is, 2k really isn't a lot in MoP's market, and probably just about what I see from collecting lesser charms and clearing H ToT each week. If you haven't put them on yet there's always resale!
    2k is a lot for me. Idk how to make gold except what I get from junk I gather.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    The sky reaver is REALLY easy to farm. Just solve 1 pandaria artifact, then use the restored artifact to buy the thing that allows all of your dig sites to be mantid ones for 24 hours (you need to be exalted with lorewalkers to buy the item).
    Yes yes I know, I have 2 Sky Reavers already.
    I'm the minister of mistakes. I'm the shaman of sh*tstorms. If there was a f**k-up pope. I'd have a 3 foot hat!

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Boil View Post
    First things first; if you go Combat, you NEVER want a fast weapon in your MH…!

    For Combat, it had always been; MH = Slow (2.6) / OH = Fast (1.8)

    With the changes/normalization of Combat Potency, it is now also perfectly okay to go Slow (2.6) for both MH & OH…

    I leveled up my only toon when MoP first launched, and I used my Fangs of the Father all the way to 90, I did not bother upgrading them until I was basically in full dungeon blues & had a number of dungeon blue weapons to choose from…

    Also, getting at least dual Windsong enchants on the Legendary Daggers helps, and dual Dancing Steel enchants is even better. I am still somewhat miffed on the one iLevel difference between the Fangs of the Father & the minimum requirement for MoP gems…!

    I did go MH/Slow, OH/Fast until I got two Slow weapons, then I never looked back…
    First, your definition of always is different from mine apparently... mine means 'since the very beginning and until now' but yours apparently means 'in the last couple years'. Nothing in vanilla favored a fast OH. You could maybe argue DP but once you put that up, extra procs did nothing.

    Second, there is no rule about no fast mainhands. There is a rule about dagger mainhands (legendaries aside). Weapon speed itself is irrelevant when comparing weapons for your MH. Highest average hit is what matters.

    And on topic, I think you guys are underestimating the proc while you are closer to 85. Close to 85, the things proc ridiculously fast and I would still use them for assassination (also what you should probably level as, by 87-88 or so combat becomes garbage until epic'd out at 90... you might think BF would be good but without high levels of gear it doesn't help much). If you really want to level all the way as combat, you are in for a rough time, but in that case, use the blues as the proc takes way, way too long to get off for combat.

  16. #16
    I leveled as combat, but that was in 5.0. Combat is not terrible. It's not as good as it was when blade flurry was 1 extra target at 100% damage (you generally don't want to pull 5 mobs to get the most out of the current BF). Combat DOES offer more frequent access to sprint, redirect, and dps cooldowns, which is what it has going for it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    First, your definition of always is different from mine apparently... mine means 'since the very beginning and until now' but yours apparently means 'in the last couple years'. Nothing in vanilla favored a fast OH.
    Sorry, I really started playing at the tail end of Wrath; so, for me, it has 'always been' slow MH & fast OH…

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    Second, there is no rule about no fast mainhands. There is a rule about dagger mainhands (legendaries aside). Weapon speed itself is irrelevant when comparing weapons for your MH. Highest average hit is what matters.
    Weapon speed is TOTALLY relevant for the MH, considering the topic is what to use as a COMBAT rogue… Combat WANTS you to run a slow MH; it is the OH that you can go either slow of fast with now…

    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    And on topic, I think you guys are underestimating the proc while you are closer to 85. Close to 85, the things proc ridiculously fast and I would still use them for assassination (also what you should probably level as, by 87-88 or so combat becomes garbage until epic'd out at 90... you might think BF would be good but without high levels of gear it doesn't help much). If you really want to level all the way as combat, you are in for a rough time, but in that case, use the blues as the proc takes way, way too long to get off for combat.
    Like I said, I leveled all the way to 90 with my Fangs of the Father, as Combat; I had no real problem with it at all… But then I also made sure to use Glyph of Deadly Momentum & the Redirect ability… This would allow me to just go from mob to mob with a minimum of downtime… I also had a huge stockpile of Cata flasks & potions to boost my stats while leveling…

    Main point of what I am trying to say is this, Fangs work fine for leveling; you should not need to go buy any weapons off of the AH, grind those dungeons until you get the drops you need…!

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Boil View Post
    Weapon speed is TOTALLY relevant for the MH, considering the topic is what to use as a COMBAT rogue… Combat WANTS you to run a slow MH; it is the OH that you can go either slow of fast with now…
    Sorry, but you clearly don't understand how the mechanics work. Why is it you think speed matters? There is only one thing directly related to speed and that is poison procs making faster superior (in both hands). Every other instance where speed comes into effect, it is a function of speed and other things which can out power the speed factor therefore speed isn't relevant as a criteria for selection. The important criteria for combat's MH are only that it is not a dagger and has the highest average hit. It is not sufficient or equivalent to replace the highest average hit criteria with slowest speed. If you did really want to add speed into the criteria, you would also either have to consider highest average hit or other factors to make up for that, and for the speed only component, it is the opposite of what you are saying.

    Honestly, thinking the wrong thing on this doesn't shock me, it is a pretty common mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboy View Post
    I leveled as combat, but that was in 5.0. Combat is not terrible. It's not as good as it was when blade flurry was 1 extra target at 100% damage (you generally don't want to pull 5 mobs to get the most out of the current BF). Combat DOES offer more frequent access to sprint, redirect, and dps cooldowns, which is what it has going for it.
    Maybe your experience was different, but even the old BF I didn't find that useful out of cooldowns towards the end as I just took too much damage (talking 88-90 anyway). And killing singles was faster with assassination and would proc the daggers reasonable fast (even if it procs as you kill something, if theres a close mob you can shs and still make use out of several of the finishers).
    Last edited by Sesshou; 2013-07-06 at 05:55 AM.

  19. #19
    Sesshou: No one said you have to use all your cooldowns every pull. You can use offensive cooldowns defensively (kill mobs faster, you take less damage), then on the next pull use defensive cooldowns to mitigate damage while your offensive cooldowns are recharging. I got realm first as combat, so really all specs are equally viable (although once you get past 1-shot range, subtlety does have distinct disadvantages over the other two specs).

    What I found while leveling is that by the time you get to dread wastes, it took long enough to kill mobs that if there was ANY delay in moving to the next mob, recup would fall off, requiring me to spend combo points on it again. At level 89 I swapped out deadly momentum for evasion.

    I leveled 85-88 using adrenaline rush, stealth, and deadly momentum, then through 89 using adrenaline rush, stealth, and evasion. I might have used recuperate instead of evasion (or instead of stealth, don't recall--I swapped glyphs around a fair amount).

    I also used the legendaries all the way to 90. I did not level via dungeons so I had no better weapons to call upon. In terms of secondary stats, the legendary daggers are considerably overbudget so even before the proc, they are worth a couple item level points based on that alone. The stacking agility buff also confers a defensive benefit by giving you additional dodge chance.
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2013-07-06 at 01:13 PM.

  20. #20
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    I still don't understand how people are having a difficult time leveling a Rogue in 85-90. You can literally get a full set of blue leather gear from a leatherworker and the two Item level 416 weapons from a blacksmith. You don't need to waste your time or money by getting those overrated Ilevel 450 weapons. You will destroy things fine with the 416 weapons until around 87-88 where the quests themselves give you better gear/weapons.

    Shadowboy is making it harder than what it really is. Just talent Leeching Poison and you should be fine. Recuperate is only useful if you've killed an enemy with some extra combo points but even then I just usually use it on Slice and Dice. Make sure to abuse Shiv also, its a decent heal with Leeching Poison.

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