Opt-*OUT* organ donation in Wales. Should the rest of the UK follow?

[Deleted]

So today in Wales the Assembly voted on and backed a new bill to switch to an opt-out/deemed consent organ donation system.

That means when it comes into effect in 2015, any Welsh resident who dies in Wales will be able to be harvested for organs without a donor card.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-23157446

Only heard about it briefly on the news at work and haven't had time to read everything properly yet but I reckon it can only be a good thing really. All for it.

What do you guys think? I know some other countries use the same system - should the rest of the UK take this system on?

Some extra information:

What is the current system?

People wanting to donate their organs after their death must sign the NHS organ donor register, or their families must agree to their organs being donated.

So what is being proposed in Wales?

Ministers want to change the system to one in which people opt out rather than opt in. They say it will drive up transplant rates. Currently, 266 people are awaiting transplants in Wales. The change will create two forms of consent in law – the "deemed consent" of those people who have not registered to opt out of donating an organ, and the "express consent" of those who have registered to say they wish to be a donor.

How will they know who wants what?

A single register will be created and record whether or not someone wants to be an organ donor. Donors will also have the option to donate certain organs but not others.

To whom will the new law apply?

Everyone over 18 who has lived in Wales for the past 12 months.

What about families' wishes?

The Welsh health minister Mark Drakeford has promised to give families a "clear right of objection". And he has also said any organs will not be taken unless a family member is present.

But what if a family does not know what their loved one wanted?

In this case, the default position is the deceased was in favour of donation and, as a matter of law, the deceased's consent is deemed. Relatives will be told that the deceased had not opted out, and had made no further wishes known.

So, in that situation an organ will definitely be donated?

In theory, no. Although the family has no legal veto, the last decision will ultimately rest on clinicians – who have a duty not to add distress to families of someone who has died. Even if it passes that stage, clinicians have a range of other factors to take into account.

When is the new system due to start?

Once given royal assent, the law will come into effect from 2015. Ministers need to launch a two-year publicity campaign to alert people to the changes

[Deleted]

I'm fine with it.

[Simulacrum]

Opt-in by default always results in massively increased number of organ donors. Strikes me as strange that everywhere doesn't have that by default.

It sounds fairly reasonable, until you get to the shady people who will abuse it, and sell them to the black market. You never know.

Uh, well this is more likely to be the case if the default is to not donate, not the other way around. So your concern makes no sense.

[Underverse]

Yes. The only reason it wouldn't be an opt-out system is if the majority would not agree because of religious beliefs.

[jahasafrat]

I rather like the idea of organ donation being opt-in by default.

[Deleted]

I rather like the idea of organ donation being opt-in by default.

Same here, there's been cases where they've been close to taking organs from someone who has been alive but deemed 'braindead' only for them to wake up. I'd rather not have some doctor turn off life support if there's a chance to recover, just to get organs.

[Mihalik]

I never understood why we need to put dead people in holes in the ground or cremate them. And I have lost close family members. A corpse is a corpse. It's a mass of flesh that will rot away anyways. Taking "proper care" of corpses is expensive, unhygenic, and futile.

So much of the human body could be used for more beneficial things. Organs for transplants, medical experiments or as teaching tools and whatever is left could be turned into a wide range of biological products, just like the carcasses of animals.

Really hope that one day this stupid selfish I keep my corpse to stick it into the ground and rot away will eventually fade. And when it comes to the family there are a million ways to remember and honor the dead. You don't specifically need a composte or ash for that.

[Akylios]

Same here, there's been cases where they've been close to taking organs from someone who has been alive but deemed 'braindead' only for them to wake up.

This strikes me as being something that must be ridiculously rare in Sweden. From what little experience I've had with your health care system, your medical staff seems to be of very high quality. Are you honestly telling me this is something that happens regularly enough to warrant mentioning in this context?

[Mihalik]

Same here, there's been cases where they've been close to taking organs from someone who has been alive but deemed 'braindead' only for them to wake up. I'd rather not have some doctor turn off life support if there's a chance to recover, just to get organs.

I demand a source for this claim please.

*edit*

I could only find 4 references to such cases.

It is a horribly rare occurance.

In my opinion it is a numbers and probabilities game. The choice is, keeping a brain dead person alive and eventually allow him to die with his organs, for the 0.000002% chance he might recover, and in the process pretty much ensuring both he and the organ reciever will die, or make an educated but hard decision and do the transplant and save someones life with a 95% probability.

(Made up statistics but still probably very close to the real numbers)

[CynicalOtaku]

If a person really believes strongly enough that the state of their body after death is important, then they should be the ones responsible for requesting that their organs not be used. It's a travesty that useful organs rot because someone just didn't care enough to check "yes" on a box.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/amillion.../gift-of-life/

[Masark]

I never understood why we need to put dead people in holes in the ground or cremate them. And I have lost close family members. A corpse is a corpse. It's a mass of flesh that will rot away anyways. Taking "proper care" of corpses is expensive, unhygenic, and futile.

The "rot away" bit is why we've historically burned or buried them. Decomposition is not a process you want taking place nearby for both health and aesthetic reasons.

[CynicalOtaku]

The "rot away" bit is why we've historically burned or buried them. Decomposition is not a process you want taking place nearby for both health and aesthetic reasons.

We also like making them pretty for the wake.

[Masark]

We also like making them pretty for the wake.

That's the reason for embalming, not burial/cremation.

[Mihalik]

The "rot away" bit is why we've historically burned or buried them. Decomposition is not a process you want taking place nearby for both health and aesthetic reasons.

Yeah of course. But this is due to the fact that before we didn't really have better alternatives. Today we do. There are a wide range of medical procedures, industrial processes etc. that could use human biological material and process them in a much cleaner and useful manner.

(But hey, I'm a guy who would be perfectly fine with Soylent Green)

[CynicalOtaku]

That's the reason for embalming, not burial/cremation.

True enough. I had interpreted Mihalik's post to be referring to the entire process, including the embalming.

[Kalis]

Hopefully the rest of the Home Nations will follow suit.

[CynicalOtaku]

Yeah of course. But this is due to the fact that before we didn't really have better alternatives. Today we do. There are a wide range of medical procedures, industrial processes etc. that could use human biological material and process them in a much cleaner and useful manner.

(But hey, I'm a guy who would be perfectly fine with Soylent Green)

I wouldn't necessarily go so far as being fine with reprocessing bodies into food, simply because cannibalism was how prion diseases gained traction.

But I'm all for better ways of processing bodies. I get so tired of driving past cemeteries, especially new ones. Wide, open, unnaturally green grass areas that could be better used as either undeveloped land or as something that people can actually use, like residences or businesses. Any processes that safely reduce the amount of unusable waste left by a cadaver is fine in my book. And if it can provide useful resources, even better.

[Cybran]

This sucks. I wouldn't want to be used for spare parts.

[CynicalOtaku]

This sucks. I wouldn't want to be used for spare parts.

If you're dead, why would it matter to you?

[StationaryHawk]

This sucks. I wouldn't want to be used for spare parts.

Then opt-out of it.