Why do lesser skilled players feel entitled to see content?

[Deleted]

Thats tough shit if they cant raid.

& herein lies the problem with LFR haters.

[Aquamonkey]

According to Blizzard's own data and comments the people doing LFR are people who wouldn't otherwise be raiding. They're not coming out of your recruiting pool.

Most of the players doing LFR just didn't raid at all before. They were never really eligible for recruitment. (Source)

The LFRers vastly outnumber the people who do traditional raiding. Just because a majority of people in LFR were never interested in raiding doesn't mean LFR didn't take a big chunk of the traditional raiding pool. Even if every traditional raider quit to do LFR, LFR would still be dominated by people who wouldn't otherwise be raiding.

[NatePsy]

Exactly the ignorant LFRer attitude. Selfish.

Got anything more to say? You don't seem to contribute much, all these one liners doesn't exactly make for a fun argument.

[Windfury]

Of course they are. Or why, do you think, are non-LFR raiding guilds dying left and right since LFR has been introduced? That's not a coincidence, it has to do directly with one another.

And yet Blizzard disagrees, enough to have gone on record about it. Huge amounts of the wow population have never been raiders and never been interested in organised raiding or able to participate for whatever reason. LFR is primarily tapping into those people. They're not people who would otherwise be joining raiding guilds.

There are those who get butthurt that others put more effort into the game and see more than them. This whole stop worrying about others argument goes both ways.

Please point me to all the threads created by casuals asking for heroic raids to be taken out of the game.

[Lily Crowley]

Because a lot of people today are all about instant gratification or at least gratification as fast as possible with as little work put in as possible, so they feel entitled to everything because they paaaaaay.

Also, there are quite a lot of people out there who THINK they are very skilled, so when the moment they meet a wall of something hard, they cry nerf because they think it was made and impossible task, if they can't do it with their ~*~skill~*~.

[Belisaurio]

I don't get why you are so against someone running an easier version of the current tier raid. How in any way does that effect YOUR game? And if they were to make a separate easier raid, I can guarantee you that the other normal / heroic raid will suffer in terms of quality.

Good point, but (in my opinion), I've got an gameplay-experience that can answer your point:
-My guild died because of boring progression (3/4 of guild are friends IRL).
-Some guild-friends were playing lazy-mode because of LFR.
-I'm bored of WoW-gameplay but I love the lore and I'm a fan since WC1.
-Too much friends un-subing. Their game-play progression:
Casual(Vani)->Hardcore(Vanilla/BC)->Casual(BC/WotLK)->Hardcore (WotLK/Cata)->Casual (cata)->Bored casual (cata/MoP)->Bored dull player (MoP)->UnSub
-No more incentive to return to Casual-Hardcore path.
-Heavy division in Hardcores-Casuals-Laxy players-Bad players.

This is what happened to me with the entrance of LFR and other features of wow becoming a bit easier than before (professions/leveling/quests/etc...).
Don't go mad, just my opinion.

[nekobaka]

If people are choosing not to raid because better options are available, then you (collective you, as in raiders) should be trying to address the things that people hate about raiding instead of blaming the game for giving players what they want, or blaming players for liking different things than you.

And what things are that besides the ones that effectively treat raiding guilds and the paying customers who are apart of them like some form of charity? Players reserve the choice to create their own guilds and have their own requirements. Not every guild is filled with jerks or treats their members like objects.

In the end PuG raiding has existed for many years prior to LFR for those who do not want to play on a schedule and not be bound by one group of players. LFR isnt cutting it for all casuals and Flex mode shows that.

[Deleted]

In the end PuG raiding has existed for many years prior to LFR for those who do not want to play on a schedule and not be bound by one group of players.

it existed but never reached LFR levels of partecipation, nor allowed most people to see end bosses (and the full storyline along with them).
also you can't pug at weird hours, and too often pugs come down to "link GS and achi or no invite".

[Theronus]

There is no hate. Topic is: Why doesn't people want to learn instead of wanting to learn? Would you receive welfare IRL or work a good job?

I love this argument.
Because your job is just as important as a game, right?
If you schedule your life around WoW and not the other way around, you need some serious help.

[Jainzar]

If people are choosing not to raid because better options are available, then you (collective you, as in raiders) should be trying to address the things that people hate about raiding instead of blaming the game for giving players what they want, or blaming players for liking different things than you.

It's not like players wanted LFR, though. Blizzard just implemented it. And ever since subscription numbers are dwindling and more and more people are leaving the game: Again: not a coincidence.

Look at Wrath: You had 12-13 million people subscribed to WoW. Most of those people were casual gamers, of course. Some of it has to do with the lore (Northrend, Lich King, etc.), but not all of it. The game simply offered a richer gameplay experience for everyone: You had 5man heroic dungeons that were pretty easy, you had 10man raiding and 25man raiding and 25man heroic raiding, which basically was the highest form of raiding. So there was something to do for everyone, while the game still managed to give every player a motivation to push for more, to invest effort into the game.

Again: I agree that there has to be content for casual gamers aswell, but the game still has to be able to give you a big, mythic goal that's somewhere out there. If you reach it or don't, doesn't matter.

A lot of people act as if everyone was crying for LFR for years and when Blizzard finally implemented it (because they wanted it) the game was saved and they could finally do something in the game and there was finally some content for them, which they payed 15 bucks a month for.

If it was like that, though, why were the subscription numbers in Wrath not at an all time low and are skyrocketing now, that the oh-so loved LFR has finally been introduced? If LFR was as good as some people make it to be, it would be like that.

But guess what? It's exactly the opposite: The subscription numbers are at an all time low now and have been at the peak in wrath, and it is not only because of the age of the game. And again: 95% of WoW's players are casual gamers and still the subs were double in wrath than they are now.

[anaxie]

According to Blizzard's own data and comments the people doing LFR are people who wouldn't otherwise be raiding. They're not coming out of your recruiting pool.

Really because I was doing LFR all until a couple weeks ago for legendary parts and I'm one of the most accomplished players in my class into the entire game. Their "data" is bork as fuck. New players will do LFR. How are new players supposed to get into the game and get better when the Normal mode scene is deteriorating? There is no middle ground. Blizzard effectively removed a stepping stone in the process.

They effectively threw away the proverbial ladder and now it's a we have a rope. But hey we always wanted a return to TBC style. Time to work on those poaching skills.

[barackohmama]

Yeah, putting your IRL family over a bunch of random dudes in an online game is the definition of selfish.

Oh wait, it's totally not. Ignoring your job, partner, kids and other IRL commitments in order to kill internet dragons is.

WoW is a substitute/addition to IRL if you didn't know that. There you can make friends and maybe even meet them IRL. You can do that in most parts of WoW except in LFR. Cause in LFR ppl care more about their own RL and dont want to talk to strangers on the internet. They dont want to socialize in game. They dont want to make friends in game, they just want their content and log off and continue with their amazing RL lives.

[Dormie]

Got anything more to say? You don't seem to contribute much, all these one liners doesn't exactly make for a fun argument.

Nah fuck it. LFRs are literally some of the biggest dolts I have ver talked to on a forum. It doesn't matter if it's explained for the 100th time because you people don't seem to comprehend it. You just respond with whatever cliche answer fits. When you pick anything apart you can make an argument. But it's clear your full of it when all your different answers condescend eachother.

Like I said, there are those of us that know what this game was and has turned into. And those that don't see whats happening.
It basically comes down to everything from the actual content to the lore being trivialized due to all the oversimplifying, streamlining and dumbing down of the game.

[Deleted]

Really because I was doing LFR all until a couple weeks ago for legendary parts and I'm one of the most accomplished players in my class into the entire game. Their "data" is bork as fuck. New players will do LFR. How are new players supposed to get into the game and get better when the Normal mode scene is deteriorating? There is no middle ground. Blizzard effectively removed a stepping stone in the process.

They effectively threw away the proverbial ladder and now it's a we have a rope. But hey we always wanted a return to TBC style. Time to work on those poaching skills.

they didn't take anything away from normal raiding, apart from making it a little more difficult.
the problem is that lfr is superior to organized raiding in every way, shape and form. most people simply aren't interested in the raiders playstyle (and lifestyle), and value convenience much more than the rewards offered by normal/heroic raids. once lfr is in the game, people who were shoved raiding down their throats went the hell away from it and never came back, because playing when you want without schedules and without guilds is soooo much better.

[Deleted]

In the end PuG raiding has existed for many years prior to LFR for those who do not want to play on a schedule and not be bound by one group of players. LFR isnt cutting it for all casuals and Flex mode shows that.

Pugging was great, but everyone is so wrapped up in achievements and ilvl these days. I remember back in Wrath you got into groups based on your reputation and your guilds reputation, all that seems to of gone now. People blame LFG / LFR for that, but personally I blame guild leveling and making guilds "for profit", there's just too many guilds around now all competing to have the most members.

I agree about Flex mode though. I just hope it doesn't become a "link cutting edge achievement and 550ilvl" disaster, and people realize that it's worth bringing in randoms as you can easily kick them if they under-perform or refuse to learn.

[Zalraki]

Utter rubbish, there is not one post from Blizzard that suggests this is the case, this elistist wishful thinking tbh.

You pay for the experience, like going to the theatre or watching a film, after every performance (month) you get to decide if you want to pay for the next month, end of.

Fail analogy. You pay for access to the room where the movie is. Whatever happens after that is up to you. Would you complain to the movie producers if the movie is too difficult to understand too? What if the movie was too short.

Your ticket will not say "Access and enjoyment guaranteed for the full duration"

[Amerissis]

Really because I was doing LFR all until a couple weeks ago for legendary parts and I'm one of the most accomplished players in my class into the entire game. Their "data" is bork as fuck.

I'm sure your anecdotal 'data' is a lot better then their real data... Yeah... I truly believe that.

Might I also add that your little display of attitude here is exactly why I'm not joining a high end raiding guild? That's my personal opinion of course, but I'm sure I'm not the only one out of millions of players who'd rather do LFR then put up with people like you.

[smiiiff]

why do you people keep saying this and then ignoring the answers?

mostly because the answers make no sense at all.
and most answers are giving in a way that make even the most mellow people in the world a rage-moment.

LFR does not in any way make my normal raids more or less of a challenge. LFR doesn't devaluate the items i get from there. LFR doesn't force me to play more or less. my money isn't better than yours, i get what i get which enough for the money i pay for it. If blizzard hadn't put in LFR it would not have changed my opinion about getting my money's worth.

LFR is not the problem. players are and not only those that afk in LFR.

[Deleted]

Really because I was doing LFR all until a couple weeks ago for legendary parts and I'm one of the most accomplished players in my class into the entire game.

Why would you run LFR for legendary quest parts if you are so accomplished then?

Or are you not accomplished enough in your IQ progress IRL to understand what a drop chance per unique kill means?

[Kapaya]

Why are you suddendly shifting things against the casual player? There is a thing about beeing bad, raids hardcore, and it's too hard for him so he keeps asking for nerfs and nerfs and nerfs, and there is the casual player, who could be the greatest player out there for all you know, but he simply doesn't have time for anything else than LFR. Just cause you sit in heroic gear and do LFR, and others don't pull the same numbers in their 502, does not make them a bad player. You either choose to discuss the casual player, or the bad player, but you don't decide out of nowhere to mix them both and call the casual players bad, cause trust me, many of them would make you look like a joke.