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  1. #1

    Why does it take Blizzard so long to nerf blatantly OP classes?

    I can remember last season when Ghostcrawler came out and admitted that Rogues were a "free HK" and that Warriors were grossly overpowered, and then still having to wait 4 months for any changes to be made to either class, at which point the season was over. I currently see the same problem with Hunters and Warlocks. Blizzard acknowledged balancing issues with both of these classes months ago, and yet here we are still months away from any changes. I simply don't understand how Blizzard can allow entire seasons to be ruined by OP specs, and then wonder why PVP participation is at an all-time low.

    Seriously, why aren't there more frequent hotfixes regarding class balance in PVP?

    Edit: I meant to post this in the PVP subforum, is tehre a way this could get moved?

  2. #2
    i have been asking myself for years... and I still cannot find a reason. some fixes are so easy to see yet blizzard is just blind to them. I mean this season for instance, get rid of CC resets on readiness and things with hunters are now manageable....

    on another note, i have since learned that if there is an OP class i should just gear it up ( i have one of every class) then I can play the fotm spec/class for an entire season, as stupid as it is, without worrying about it getting nerfed.

  3. #3
    They seem to have some serious trouble with making small changes to just about anything in the game. Ever notice they can't seem to have, say, a 5% nerf (or buff) to the hardest hitting ability of a class to bring them in line? It's always got to be some strange or obtuse method of balancing that ends up screwing things up even more.

  4. #4
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    It's probably mostly that being OP in one area (like pvp) doesn't mean they are in another area, and that nerfing one can make the spec underpowered in another context, making it really hard to find a balance where the class is of appropriate power in all circumstances. The first example that springs to mind is resto shaman, which were too strong in PvP early this expansion but weak in PvE, and it was hard to nerf them in the right ways without setting them back further in PvE..

    A small portion of it is also that no one likes their class nerfed and Blizzard probably isn't that enthusastic about rushing into it. I mean, they'll do it when it's necessary - but slow and cautious has always been their moto with, like, everything. No one would ever accuse Blizzard of being fast about anything.

    And I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the time, the class people are upset about isn't actually OP and it's just a matter of skewed perspective. I don't think that's usually the case but it does happen. And often even if it is a legitimate criticism, people often overinflate how much of an issue it is, hyperbolising a very small advantage into something far larger than it actually is.
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  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
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    Designing or editing any game system requires playtesting which can be extensive if said component is integrel to a class' core gameplay or in directly involved in player to player interaction. It isn't as simple as just reducing an abilitiy's dmg or cooldown; there are a lot of factors involved and when you have some 2000+ devs all creating or reworking content, there really isn't that many professional testers to go around.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by achromatickang View Post
    Seriously, why aren't there more frequent hotfixes regarding class balance in PVP?
    It didn't take them but one patch to nerf Hunters. And instead of fixing the problem (aka nerfing Stampede in PvP), they started neutering the class as a whole.

    They're still doing it by making Silencing Shot MM-only again in 5.4...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    It's probably mostly that being OP in one area (like pvp) doesn't mean they are in another area, and that nerfing one can make the spec underpowered in another context, making it really hard to find a balance where the class is of appropriate power in all circumstances. The first example that springs to mind is resto shaman, which were too strong in PvP early this expansion but weak in PvE, and it was hard to nerf them in the right ways without setting them back further in PvE..

    A small portion of it is also that no one likes their class nerfed and Blizzard probably isn't that enthusastic about rushing into it. I mean, they'll do it when it's necessary - but slow and cautious has always been their moto with, like, everything. No one would ever accuse Blizzard of being fast about anything.

    And I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the time, the class people are upset about isn't actually OP and it's just a matter of skewed perspective. I don't think that's usually the case but it does happen. And often even if it is a legitimate criticism, people often overinflate how much of an issue it is, hyperbolising a very small advantage into something far larger than it actually is.
    This is almost certainly it. A major solution to this would be to separate each move into a PvE and PvP form so that each could be tinkered with. That has its own drawbacks however - twice as much things to change/balance, confusion to a lot of players, implementing that actual tech to support this, new UI.

  8. #8
    its a simple answer,
    you can never true balance the classes in the game,they cant make them so different in style (plate vs cloth, battle pet vs stun lock)yet so balanced in terms of abilities.
    the only way they can try balance this is by giving one powerfull defences and the other rather weak ones but that cant work forever cause you need to consider PVE as well as PVP.

    if anything, having the delicate classes equation unbalanced can make ppl change specs or classes farm for new gear Q for instances and BG/raids buy out of AH and change proffestions = what makes the game move on and ever active.

    think of it as money changing hands in a country in the state of war = jobs for lots of ppl at a wide range of the spectrum while having peace will mean scrapping all of the above.

    if anything , all the new classes added to the game seems to have a button (ability) for every situation even cosmetic ones .

    you need to look at the big picture, if anything will be balanced you will play 1 class untill you are bored, no point in trying anything else, but when the OPness is switching among the classes every once in a while it keeps things in an everchanging mode and thats what makes azeroth go 'round

  9. #9
    Balancing PvP when PvE comes into play is impossible, same the other way around. I wish that the PvP stats was 100% outside of PvE so that true balancing could occur. That you HAD to have 100% PvP gear if you want to do BG's and Arena's, with the original set purchasable by a small amount of gold or something.
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  10. #10
    They could if they bothered to, the would just put in a gear cap (like we have now) keep that forever, and then split pve/pvp abilitys (which they dont because some retards are to dumb to remember the differences) spend some serious time in fixing balancing issues and then do weakly/monthly small changes if anything shows to be to godd/bad. They have to do balancing over and over again due to pve changes and due to higher ilvls in new seasons, new abilitys and so on which leads them to fucking up and once they started fixing everything the next round is around and it all starts anew.

  11. #11
    Hastily making a change to nerf a blatantly OP class will result in several other unbalances.

  12. #12
    cause you make pve cry. and you deserve to be punished.

    -end thread.

  13. #13
    For some reason they are against making extra small patches for just balance reasons. They do make hotfixes for things that are really big issues but more significant changes have to wait for major patches due to them not wanting to make smaller ones more often.

  14. #14
    It's FOTM policy. They want FOTMs to get their fun from game and they want you to have some expectation about the next patch, which makes patch more meanfull for you. It's just endless loop.
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  15. #15
    It requires admitting fault.

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Arena Balance is hard to define, and nerfing a class mid-season (Even if it is blatantly overpowered) can have really negative impacts.

    My opinion is that Blizzard should find smarter solutions to their problems, not just using the Damage Modifiers on the abilities to alter player damage. Why not keep the damage a little lower then it is, but increase resistances in Arenas / Battlegrounds / World PvP? Why not make Armour class (Plate / Leather / Mail etc...) more important by making the values impact Melee reduction further?

    Doing those two wouldn't change rotations, wouldn't impact the fun people are having with doing high numbers, but would balance out things a little smoother.

    Honestly though, at this point Blizzard needs to cave in and just do PvP / PvE Spells & Abilites like Colossus Smash and all Crowd Control.

  17. #17
    The Patient MORGATH99's Avatar
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    just nerf mage palys and druids and everything will be ok

  18. #18
    Elemental Lord Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MORGATH99 View Post
    just nerf mage palys and druids and everything will be ok
    Yeh! Just apply that Nerf Debuff that does what exactly?

    Asking for classes to be nerfed as a whole is stupid. What about them is insane enough to warrant a nerf?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    For some reason they are against making extra small patches for just balance reasons. They do make hotfixes for things that are really big issues but more significant changes have to wait for major patches due to them not wanting to make smaller ones more often.
    Small changes that occur too often give little or not time for the community to change or react to the game changes, and things can get very confusing as Spell Tooltips, Community Sites & Databases would fail to keep up properly.

    Take a look at the Beastmaster Hunter Stampede situation earlier. Initially, it was a huge pain in the ass and almost wiped everyone out, but slowly the community learnt to keep the pets under control, disarming the Hunter, or managing the situation better. Overall, once the community got used to it, and knew how to counter it, it wasn't such an issue.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Naztrak's Avatar
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    pve

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    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-07-07 at 09:08 AM.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by achromatickang View Post
    I can remember last season when Ghostcrawler came out and admitted that Rogues were a "free HK" and that Warriors were grossly overpowered, and then still having to wait 4 months for any changes to be made to either class, at which point the season was over. I currently see the same problem with Hunters and Warlocks. Blizzard acknowledged balancing issues with both of these classes months ago, and yet here we are still months away from any changes. I simply don't understand how Blizzard can allow entire seasons to be ruined by OP specs, and then wonder why PVP participation is at an all-time low.

    Seriously, why aren't there more frequent hotfixes regarding class balance in PVP?

    Edit: I meant to post this in the PVP subforum, is tehre a way this could get moved?
    Wait. Warlock and Hunter? Both overpowered?

    Oh. Hey. Are you on that 2s team we were farming the other night? Nearly every double-DPS 2s team is going for an out-of-the-gate blow-up. Next time burn a cooldown til my Unending Resolve wears off, then juggle CCs. It's not that difficult.

    ...on a slightly more serious note, Blizzard's only mention of Warlock balancing lately has been: (a) Mannoroth's Fury is overpowered in certain BGs (which it is, but it's near worthless elsewhere), and (b) Soul Leech needs a scaling cap (which it does, but it's also a PVE only talent). So if you have some other mention of Warlock PVP issues, let us know so that we can abuse, uh, investigate them.
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