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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    People have pointed out the logic REPEATEDLY but you guys just sit there a pour out the excuses like it was going out of style, so why bother? But for luls I will say it again..............subscribers were on the increase during the times you say "People didn't raid" and there was LESS to do for people who didn't raid or pvp, now the invent of LFR and voila subs tank, sorry but I don't believe in coincidence nor do I buy into Blizzards PR bullshit, as for your statement on Crapaclysm? THE WHOLE EXPANSION WAS A STINKFEST! The dungeons weren't too hard, they just required a crap load of CC, they were TEDIOUS not difficult in the least, NOBODY liked them not even people like me!
    It does not take much brain to figure out that the most Popular MMO would be gaining subs during the time when the MMO as a genre blew up.
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  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by madokbro View Post
    We don't have to,
    -Study our class extensively for optimal performance,
    -Study each fight for optimal performance,
    -Try to orchestrate our optimal rotation in a stressful progress environment,
    -Wipe for hours to kill a single boss for some reason(yaay so fun),
    -Try to not fail on memorizing/reaching/assigning keybinds for each of your main characters,
    -Work extensively to perform decent while still being able to pay attention to boss mechanics, without all that "friends are depending on my performance to not wipe for another hour" stress,
    -Level x number of professions or do other forms of extremely boring stuff(such as dailies) to get more gold to spend on enchants, gems, flasks, pots or gear that gets changed constantly as you get better drops,
    -Get into arguements over numbers, such as dps or healing meters,

    to experience the content now.

    As I said before, this might be easy, monotonous for experienced gamers; but I always have a hard time to explain to them that this whole raiding ritual is no where near "fun" for a casual gamer, or an inexperienced player who has no intention/time to get to your level of experience, it is tiresome and stressful for the majority of the player base. As a gamer(I love this great hobby), I can say that World of Warcraft is way too harder than a single player fantasy game, and I, we, love playing both. But I cannot sacrifice my time and I don't have the interest to adjust to damn video game I pay to play every month, it has to adjust to me, if my views are shared by most of its target audience. Considering LFR, LFD, new talent system etc, I can safely say that they are vastly shared.
    gathering gold for materials for raiding is very simple. i can play the game "casually" and earn a full 10man of raiding flasks/feasts/Enchants...you act like this game is HUGE time sink. it's not at all. i raid twice a week heroic modes and all i have to play is 2-4 hours to prepare for each raid and im fine....you sir aren't even trying, or giving any initiative to raid/play the game. please just quit the game before you encourage the devs to destroy the game. you are the poison.

  3. #223
    Everything has its merits and its place. LFR, Normal and Heroic.

    Can't ever understand people who don't just enjoy whats appropriate for them. I'm personally somewhere in-between Normal and Heroic. I also use LFR to gear and play my alts a bit, something i'd probably never be able to do without it. Sure i could spend ages with groups in Open Raid, but the vast majority of them suck (or are 10 man, with lower loot drops and less variety in loot dropped).

    Personally, i think too many people fuss over other difficulties that aren't aimed at them. Don't like LFR? Don't do it. I've never had to do LFR once this expansion to get gear on my main or experience the fights.
    Last edited by Xucuroz; 2013-07-10 at 09:40 AM.
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  4. #224
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    There wasn't less to do, back ion those days it tooks weeks or months to level to cap.

    Most players never got a max level toon. When subs were highest, most players were wandering around until level 40 or so, when they quit. it just took them ages to get to that point. Now they get to level 40 and quit, but it takes them no time at all.

    Because raiders moaned, and because raiders got whatever they want in wow until recently (now it's just 90% of what they want) the levelling process was made laughably easy and fast so that raiders could have masses of alts to raid with. If you want to go back to the TBC/vanilla model of wow, you'd also have to content yourself with a 21 days /played per toon to hit cap.
    Vanilla wasn't it's boom period, BC was and it didn't take long to get to level cap, and then there was WOTLK with no LFR as well and that expansion was WAY easy to level, so again, still less to do back then and had high subscriptions.

  5. #225
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    but I always have a hard time to explain to them that this whole raiding ritual is no where near "fun" for a casual gamer
    It's really not, and it's in strict opposition to anything resembling "role playing."

    If Blizzard could figure out a way that people could kill pixel dragons, and the "optimum" way involved role playing, maybe the game would make more sense.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Vanilla wasn't it's boom period, BC was and it didn't take long to get to level cap, and then there was WOTLK with no LFR as well and that expansion was WAY easy to level, so again, still less to do back then and had high subscriptions.
    Vanilla was a boom period. It was rising through the roof and it continued into TBC and leveled out during Wrath when it finally hit its peak. Cata saw the first major losses (some in wrath after a year of ICC but even then it was not that huge a drop).

  7. #227
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Vanilla wasn't it's boom period, BC was and it didn't take long to get to level cap, and then there was WOTLK with no LFR as well and that expansion was WAY easy to level, so again, still less to do back then and had high subscriptions.

    You are quibbling with the fine detail because you know my major points are correct.
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  8. #228
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    I personally loath LFR and how if I want to raid, and need to catch up I gotta do it.. though I suppose it's better that having to join a lower guild, then ditch them when im geared.

    I honestly wish they came up with Flex raiding before LFR. because it looks like a better system.. something easy enough for a Pug group to do but challenging enough to require teamwork (At least I hope so)
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  9. #229
    Warchief Seefer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    You are quibbling with the fine detail because you know my major points are correct.
    FYI it wasn't raiders who bitched about the leveling process, and no I didn't ignore your "major points" I said they were WRONG.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Vanilla wasn't it's boom period, BC was and it didn't take long to get to level cap, and then there was WOTLK with no LFR as well and that expansion was WAY easy to level, so again, still less to do back then and had high subscriptions.
    We already discussed that you can't relate complex things like sub gains and losses to single aspects of the game, and most certainly not things like LFR. I see you simply chose to ignore it all. You can't be that naive. Or maybe you can ...

    You're one of those hopeless people who just stick their head in the dirt and go LALALALALA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, I REFUSE TO FACE LIFE AND STICK TO MY NONSENSE NO MATTER HOW DETACHED FROM REALITY IT IS
    Last edited by Pull My Finger; 2013-07-10 at 10:04 AM.

  11. #231
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    FYI it wasn't raiders who bitched about the leveling process, and no I didn't ignore your "major points" I said they were WRONG.
    No, you didn't address them at all and you still haven't, which I took then and am taking as tacit admission you can't.
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  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I personally loath LFR and how if I want to raid, and need to catch up I gotta do it.. though I suppose it's better that having to join a lower guild, then ditch them when im geared.

    I honestly wish they came up with Flex raiding before LFR. because it looks like a better system.. something easy enough for a Pug group to do but challenging enough to require teamwork (At least I hope so)
    There did indeed need to be some other catch up mechanics. Flex/LFR along with scenarios giving highish level loot along with dailies should in theory provide some good alternatives to catching up to the end game content IMO.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    Good post OP - LFR was created for people like you, and it seems to work as intended from that prespective.

    LFR was not designed to replace normal raids for people who prefer that playstyle. Instead, it was intended to do exactly what you described.
    ???

    Methinks u have misread the OP.

    He is saying that he just wants to see the content. In the old days he would raid normals until he had seen everything and nowadays he does LFR to see everything. In the old days he would play longer than now.

    thats pretty much his entire point... that hes not doing normals anymore!

    Therefore his entire point is that LFR is replacing normals! lol

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by BloodGutter View Post
    Different strokes for different folks. If I wasn't raiding normals/heroics with my guild I would quit the game.

    No one in their right mind actually FINDS JOY in wiping for hours on end, but the end result of finally downing a boss after all the hard work and progression paying off is PRICELESS. Something LFR will never, ever be able to provide you.

    Plus you know, the superior gear and all. Yes LFR shares the same model but at the end of the day, heroic gear is the best.
    Yes..but as people get older and get a job and maybe a wife and shit they got less time to sit behind their pcs for 20 hours a week. They got LFR to still SEE the game, really so if i haven't completed God of war on hardest difficulty then i haven't experieced god of war? bullshit logic.
    Stuff

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by lavaalamp View Post
    gathering gold for materials for raiding is very simple. i can play the game "casually" and earn a full 10man of raiding flasks/feasts/Enchants...you act like this game is HUGE time sink. it's not at all. i raid twice a week heroic modes and all i have to play is 2-4 hours to prepare for each raid and im fine....you sir aren't even trying, or giving any initiative to raid/play the game. please just quit the game before you encourage the devs to destroy the game. you are the poison.
    So, devs are little kids who need to be encouraged?
    Try turning story other way - tell devs to discourage us to play LFR. Somehow I have a feeling they wont do it...

    Also, you want us to quit the game? No dev in their right mind would develop a game with same content for lets say 5-10k players who would stay

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    Methinks u have misread the OP.

    He is saying that he just wants to see the content. In the old days he would raid normals until he had seen everything and nowadays he does LFR to see everything. In the old days he would play longer than now.

    thats pretty much his entire point... that hes not doing normals anymore!

    Therefore his entire point is that LFR is replacing normals! lol
    To be more precise, LFR replaced normals for me, I dont speak for others.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    ???

    Methinks u have misread the OP.

    He is saying that he just wants to see the content. In the old days he would raid normals until he had seen everything and nowadays he does LFR to see everything. In the old days he would play longer than now.

    thats pretty much his entire point... that hes not doing normals anymore!

    Therefore his entire point is that LFR is replacing normals! lol
    His entire post was that prior to LFR he had to raid the old fashioned way and that LFR is working for him. It has replaced his need for normal raiding and he enjoys that. LFR does not replace normals for people who want to step into harder raiding or guild raiding. Flex may help ease the burden somewhat and get more people into higher difficulties.

  17. #237
    i like that the game now has something for everyone. no matter what you'd like to do in this game, you're set. i think that's a great business model for keeping customers happy. provide content so all of your customers can be happy.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    His entire post was that prior to LFR he had to raid the old fashioned way and that LFR is working for him. It has replaced his need for normal raiding and he enjoys that. LFR does not replace normals for people who want to step into harder raiding or guild raiding. Flex may help ease the burden somewhat and get more people into higher difficulties.
    So ur backing me up thanks...

    The point is that without LFR people raided normals, and with LFR alot of people dont raid normals anymore.

    Ur saying the same thing as me! lol

    The only question is whether this is a positive move 'forward' or is it a move 'backwards'.

    From a raiding point of view its a move backwards and from a casual/time commitment point of view its a step forward.

  19. #239
    Subs didn't rocket down when you put in lfr, they started to go down when raids were done that a large amount of people couldn't do on normal that had been normal mode raiders. The upper end of the raiding community got taken care of this expansion, the lower end did as well, those in the middle tho got destroyed.

    LFR is not and has not been the problem. It's the poor tuning of normal that is the problem.

  20. #240
    The point is that without LFR people raided normals,
    Without LFR, people didn't raid at all. Please keep that in mind.

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