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when i heard that Chi Brew would now also interact with our class brews, i was crossing my fingers that it was going to make using heroism at the start of a fight usable for us. Personally, i think something needs to be done about our crazy ramp-up time - i know it exists with other classes too, but right now, even with the change to our mastery, TEB is still our cooldown for burn-phase dps, and is not available at the start of a fight. One could argue that Xuen is, however, but AFAIK, he snapshots our current stats and changes, and he is affected by the TEB buff.
I'm glad they are actually doing something with our spec though, rather than putting it to one side over the other two. Not to mention i wouldn't've liked to be a resto-sham up until recently, they were ignored for ages XD
Llucielle - Silvermoon EU
As for the Chi Brew thing, I have a feeling that they may change it (as they did recently for Brewmaster) for Windwalker fairly soon. Whether it will be enough to make it worth choosing over the other options, I'm not sure, and I'd say it's unlikely that it would be enough to make full power TeB within hero/lust's duration happen, but it may be enough to make say, a 10 stack possible, possibly more. Say they change it to giving 5 stacks of TeB from chi brew, and you pre stack your chi with expel harm before the fight; if you get lucky with your mastery procs, the first 4-5 seconds (not sure if chi brew is off the gcd or not) you could be up to 9 stacks, giving you a decent amount of time to get a few more stacks to pop for the last 15 seconds of hero/lust.
hope for blades of rentaki proc
hope for shado pan trinket proc
build up as much TEB as possible using standard rotation
1 sec remaining on hero/pot/either trinket - pop Xuen for max stat bump snapshot.
Usually this would result in the TEB effect running over heroism's expiry, which may sound like a loss at first, but i'm not overly convinced using a lower stack with 15sec remaining would be worth it unless Xuen does NOT benefit from TEB. I may have to reconsider my opening DPS sequence.
Llucielle - Silvermoon EU
Going for 'number of stacks' alone, we'll have to spend 50% more time building up stacks, since, to get maximum effect from TigerEye Brew, we need 15 stacks, up from 10. 15! That's half as many more stacks than we need now! Let's assume we get a TEB stack every 6 seconds. That means that the time needed to get maximum stacks for a TEB use went from 60 to 90 seconds.
And now, on top of that, going for 'generation of stacks', you get one stack per 4 chi, up from 3. So that means if you could get a stack every 6 seconds, on average, now you'll get one stack every 8 seconds. That means, time needed to get max stacks for a TEB use went from 60 seconds, to 120 seconds. Doubled the time needed to get it.
"Oh but our mastery will help us get stacks faster," you say. I call bull to that because unless someone posts a screenie from PTR showing how much our new mastery will work, I believe we can assume it's gonna be a small percentage, like baseline 5% or so 10% tops, like our current Tier 15 4-set bonus, scaling probably poorly with mastery, making Monks switch from Mastery builds to Haste builds, probably.
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I've been playing this game since alpha " we haven't finished tuning " means nothing I've seen classes fly through PTR and get tuned and still turn out like shit so it just doesn't mean anything.
Yea, it's tragic our raid CD isn't as powerful as others, but I don't think it's as binary as you say. The only fight this tier that WW's really suffer (and all melee really) is Ra-Den. Horridon was pretty crappy at the beginning of the tier because we were hadn't hit our scaling stride yet. Time will tell, and go ahead and hedge your raid spot if you feel it's required. I think by this point either you have a raid spot or you don't, and it's based on your personal ability and not your class.
Personally, I think our personal survivability beats every other class and is where we really shine. I don't think it really benefits us to add another raid CD to an already bloated arms race. The TEB healing thing makes me scratch my head because I only see it working well with Chi Burst, but all monks could end up getting something, but that something could synergize well with TEB. SEF came about halfway into the PTR iteration cycle, so time will tell.
Personal survivability Yes and No, I can easily survive as well on my Pally or Shaman as my Monk the only place my Monk tops out other classes is Lei Shen because I can soak 2 bolts where most people can't or I can soak two statics where most people can't.
The strong point of the class IMO is mobility that is where we excel over every other class in the game.
I could go on, but suffice it to say that dummy dps doesn't mean jack, especially if you're testing one at (I assume) best case scenario, and the other at anything other than best case scenario.
I also seem to remember people complaining about Windwalker being "SO LOW DPS" at the beginning of ToT, because it didn't do well in LAST TIER'S GEAR. We won't know until all the gear is released, and all the numbers are set, and people actually have a chance to try them against the actual bosses of the tier in the tier's gear, whether Windwalker is good, or average, or garbage, or whatever.
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- Hit: 2552
- Expertise: 2556
- Mastery: 9588
- Haste: 9584
- Crit: 9584
TeB Stack Generation time for Minimum use.
10 Stacks = 28 seconds
PTR Stats - Haste = Live > Crit > Mastery
- Hit: 2567
- Expertise: 2553
- Mastery: 4937
- Haste: 9618
- Crit: 11953
15 Stacks = 52 seconds
PTR Stats - Haste = Live > Mastery > Crit
- Hit: 2592
- Expertise: 2553
- Mastery: 9641
- Haste: 9680
- Crit: 7162
15 Stacks = 40 seconds
Gear is the same between live and PTR other than the Rune since it's most likely no longer going to be as good I used Juju and Renatakis on PTR. Anyway you look at it it's going to take additional time to stack up to 15 at the current build rate.
WW didn't scale good until you got a RoR no matter how you look at it.I also seem to remember people complaining about Windwalker being "SO LOW DPS" at the beginning of ToT, because it didn't do well in LAST TIER'S GEAR. We won't know until all the gear is released, and all the numbers are set, and people actually have a chance to try them against the actual bosses of the tier in the tier's gear, whether Windwalker is good, or average, or garbage, or whatever.
Name one time you could use Zen Med while still attacking and not losing dps? You can't, Yes we have Touch of Karma and yes we have Diffuse Magic but that is all we have unless you took Dampen Harm instead.Windwalker easily has the best survivability of all the melee dps. We have mobility (which, if glyphed, gives threat dump, if needed), an obscene amount of defensive cooldowns for both physical and magical damage. The shear amount of damage a Windwalker can negate from himself saves the healers not only mana, but allows them to put more focus on the people who simply don't have those abilities. Sure, a Pally or a Shaman can heal themselves quite a bit more effectively than a WW can, but a WW's survivability and self healing do not take away from our ability to do damage, and in fact, in a few cases, increases it.
If you think for a second a Raid healer says " That is a Monk I don't need to watch him as much " and just heals like that it's pretty silly, Most raid healers heal based on incoming damage and raid frames not on you being a Monk they have no idea when you are randomly going to use a defensive CD. That is why personal survivability has nothing to do with Raid survivability and it never will.
During Shock on DA I take less damage when the RL calls to use personals because we are out of a raid CD's how is that beneficial to the rest of the raid? It's not it's beneficial to me and me only sure the healer won't have to heal me directly but that means nothing because Chain Heal and all the other AE heals which are used for large amounts of incoming damage isn't that smart.
However to get back to the topic of the Mastery which is the only thing that we need to worry about I'll leave it at that and won't reply to off topic threads no matter how much I want. Feel free to start a new thread about why personal cd's are just as good as raid cd's and I'll continue in it.
5.2 was supposed to bring WWers up to par with other melee in terms of participation. It failed miserably because blizzard still believes 2% of the healing done in a 10 man guild justifies a raid spot.