Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.
I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.
All our mana consumers:
Blinding Light: 4800
Avenger's Shield: 4200
Hand of Salvation: 3200
Holy Wrath: 3000
Fist of Justice (Talent): 2106
Reckoning (Taunt): 2100
Div Protection: 2100
CS, J, X = 1800 + 3000 + 4200(filler of choice), totalling 9000 mana for 3 GCDs, or 3.0 seconds. Rounding it up to 3.5 sec, that's still 2571 mana per sec OUT, while only 1800 mana per sec IN.
Next "round" is CS, X, J: different order, but same total expenditure.
Then we have CS, X, X: 1800 + 4200 + 4200 = 10200 mana, 2914 MPS OUT, still only 1800 MPS IN.
So, (2571+2571+2914)/3 = 2685.33 MPS for our "default rotation". We need 2685.33 mana per second to perform just the basic CS,J,X,CS,X,J,CS,X,X. We currently get 1800 MPS from GbtL. So we have a gap of 885.33 MPS.
In order to cover that, we'd need to see, let's say, 900 MPS. This is also equal to a flat 50% buff to current GbtL. This would be 2700 MPS, aka 9% from GbtL.
We're getting, supposedly, 10%. Which would be 3000 MPS, giving us an extra 315 MPS for "fluff". In that 9 second CS,J,X,CS,X,J,CS,X,X rotation (at 50% haste) this would be 2835 mana to spare.
This is, of course, assuming ZERO latency AND 50% haste. More realistically, we're looking at ~4k mana per cycle. This is also not counting in empty GCDs for things like SS refresh or AW casts.
You can DivProt once every 3+ cycles, taunt every cycle, and still be fine on mana. 2 interrupts per 3 cycles may start to creep in a bit, but we'll have to see that in action.
So, 10% will be cutting it close, but even at the most cutting edge, unless you're playing IN Irvine, CA, you should be fine/neutral. Maybe 12% is a better target?
So here we have an example of Blizzard's removing a mechanic that worked nicely to scale mana regeneration with haste for prot paladins, and wasn't causing any problem with an already somewhat mediocre (since 5.3) -- and getting worse (5.4) -- healing spec, and potentially replacing it with a band-aid fix that will likely not scale well with haste (unless they go with the blatantly obvious and simple destruction warlock mechanic ripoff: "Mana regeneration from Guarded by the Light is affected by your melee haste") and thus penalize you for gearing up.
Just hoping they sober up and revert the change before a release candidate build; it causes numerous problems while being a solution to a nonexistent problem.
As for the Battle Healer change, I'd prefer the glyph simply add a new seal with the raid healing functionality ("Seal of the Martyr" ... "Seal of Selflessness" ... or something) so we can swap with stock SoI on the fly, mid-combat, but it's acceptable as is in the PTR notes. Being OP was fun while it lasted.
Last edited by Kaeth; 2013-07-10 at 03:23 AM.
Best solution would be to decrease mana cost of all paladin's spells.
Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-07-10 at 05:32 AM.
Back on topic: I'd like you to remind you of the retribution mechanics. I've not yet seen one ret pally using SoI but almost exclusively only using SoT. I've never seen any of them drop lower than 75% on any fights, only if anyone ever used a hard casted Flash of Light. They still use mana as a resource for CS/HotR, J, Exo (2400 mana), frequent interrupts, sometimes Emancipate (9000 mana!) and rarely switching seals (9800 mana). They favour haste over everything else ending up at even higher rates than prot. So are they usually at a 1 s already. Still their mechanics don't let them mana starve, even under Sanc Wrath with any other CDs. There must be something which hasn't been taken into account when calculating the in/out mana within those theoretical explanations.
Last edited by Homsel; 2013-07-10 at 06:07 AM.
The things that you havent taken into consideration seem to be:
1) Prot uses more abilities that cost mana which ends up in more mana spent.
2) Prot has less "dead globals" where they are not spending mana because they've got more buttons and their HP dumps are off the GCD.
3) Ret goes through 30 second cycles every 2 minutes (wings) where they are using a rotation of Hammer of Wrath (1800 mana), filler, HoW, filler, HoW, HP dump, HoW, filler, HoW. It replacing some of the higher mana spells (Judge/Exo) for the lower mana cost HoW.
These 3 things alone have a pretty big impact on it.
Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-07-10 at 06:11 AM.
Well I have close to 50% haste raidbuffed (49,24) with no trinket proc or Hero/BL. Haste is THE only way to go for Rets.
And to my armory link as prot yesterday: I play main Ret, just switched to Prot because one of our tanks is away from Wow for 3 weeks due to exams. So i use most of my Ret items and tank with them. The Str + Stam gem is due to beeing well over hit capped (and not beeing able to reforge it), so there are only 2 gems for a blue socket I could take: haste+hit (green) or str+hit (purple). Since I am well over hit capped, I take str+stam (moar stam more survivability as ret). I hadn't reforged my gear yesterday due to just switching spec fast for the armory.
But back to topic: we have to test the new buff to 10% on PTR, just downloading the client and the new T16 Set bonuses look sweet, although I'm gonna miss the T15 2p bonus (esp on fights like JiKun HC)
Her opinion is more valid than yours, however, as if she chose to post on these forums, she'd have an avatar.
Sort it out.
the only change which matters here is the seal of insight no longer returning mana.
In a normal rotation, this means you go out of mana in approximately 40 seconds.
Seem's like that's where we should be focusing any kind of complaint, all the rest, honestly needed a nerf, if you don't see that, take your helmet off.
Last edited by Aceshigh; 2013-07-10 at 10:13 AM.
Telling people "if they don't like it, go play dps" isn't a solution. Just like unless they make drastic changes to how vengeance works as a mechanic, tanks will still want to take more damage to increase their vengeance to do more damage.
The whole Dodge/parry thing isn't even unique to Prot paladins. Blood Dks aren't crazy for it either as a stat.
Last edited by Xucuroz; 2013-07-10 at 10:25 AM.
We are warriors, born from the light
An army for freedom, defenders of life
Warriors, euphoria will rise
Returning from darkness we bury all lies
I was wondering if someone could explain to me how the BH glyph nerf works?
Using melee attacks while using Seal of Insight heals a nearby injured friendly target, excluding the Paladin
Nerf: Melee attacks from Seal of Insight heal the most wounded member of your raid or party instead of you.
In my eyes, they say EXACTLY the same thing.
Well I don't play pal and don't know the class mechanics very well, so I apologize if I say some cray shit. Please don't hesitate to tell me if I'm wrong somewhere.
I would like to really understand the new changes (especially the one about SoI).
I am, however, a very experienced tank player. I see a lot of whines about the change on SoI... I understand this change deeply affect the prot pal gameplay, and is gonna make pal oom very fast with the current way of playing : a lot of stats and agressive skills without a second thought about anything but holy power.
Basically you use mana skills to deal damages and generate holy power with crusader strike and use holy power to mitigate incoming damages. But as you have unlimited mana you don't have to choose between the two... you're doing them both, and very well at that.
With the change, you will not be able to maintain your entire dps rotation anymore and would be forced to actually choose between a lot of crusader strikes and a lot of dps if I grasp corectly...
If it so, I have some difficulties to understand why so many whines... I understand it hurts to be nerf, but prot pal are actually world bosses : they are first dps on several fights, take certainly the less spike damages and are the best no-heal healing class/spe... and in top of that they have many usefull raid ability. They are really in need of a nerf and I find this one interesting. I mean, Blizzard could simply have decrease the base damage of skills : this would have not affect the gameplay but would have the very same results... with the difference you could not maximize your DPS when needed.
In this case, they essentialy add a new ressource to manage : the mana, and what you are doing with it. All in all they continue to copy the DK gameplay model : two ressources to manage and a choice about what to do with it : survival or damage.
In my opinion the nerf could have been a lot more dumb and hurtfull that it currently is...
Last edited by bistrot; 2013-07-10 at 10:55 AM.