A brand-new $34 Million U.S. military headquarters in Afghanistan. To be demolished

[Underverse]

Just like the extra tanks we bought when the military itself said they didn't need them. We're shoving so much money into our defense budget that our government has to order our army to buy random shit

[Oktoberfest]

So, get politically active and demand accountability. Or whine about it on the interwebz in a gaming site. Whichever you think is going to fix the issue faster. :P

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
Thomas Jefferson

[Afrospinach]

And still whoever built the thing got paid in full I guess. Out of taxpayers' money.

And why shouldn't they? it is not their bad planning decision.

[Wilian]

Private contractors profited and politicians got their lobby-monies. Sounds pretty much it went as intended.

[pimpeddakota]

if only we could pay people to dig holes and then fill them over here in the states.

think of all the jobs.

and sadly you would still have people choose welfare then work. People on welfare at a minimum should be having to clean up parks, visit old people, play with animals at the shelter, etc... but w/e

[Deleted]

And why shouldn't they? it is not their bad planning decision.

Surely it's not the plumber's fault, or the brickies, or the sparks, but I'm pretty sure if you dig down deep enough you'll find that "missing link" between who gives the money and who takes it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
Thomas Jefferson

This hero worship of the founding fathers is just bad.

[Applenazi]

Wow 34 million dollars... That's... like nothing. When the unit of measurement you work with is trillion then million is kind of a triviality. A single AMRAAM missile costs 1.5 million dollars.

[Deleted]

Wow 34 million dollars... That's... like nothing. When the unit of measurement you work with is trillion then million is kind of a triviality. A single AMRAAM missile costs 1.5 million dollars.

It's half of what psg spent to buy cavani.

But no you're dead wrong and should be whipped in public for saying such an atrocity.

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This hero worship of the founding fathers is just bad.

It's a great quote. Nevermind who said it. I agree with you to a point but this in particular is perfectly fitting and fundamentally true.

[Oktoberfest]

This hero worship of the founding fathers is just bad.

Why is that? You do realize that they were far more educated and intelligent than you or I or anyone on this forum right?

[obdigore]

Why is that? You do realize that they were far more educated and intelligent than you or I or anyone on this forum right?

Not really, no.

[Oktoberfest]

Not really, no.

Oh? You think you are as smart or educated as Thomas Jefferson or James Madison?

[Mayhem]

Why is that? You do realize that they were far more educated and intelligent than you or I or anyone on this forum right?

and they were better slave owners too... what´s your point?

[Oktoberfest]

and they were better slave owners too... what´s your point?

ahah was waiting for that one. That is the standard progressive response. "THEY WERE RACISTS GRRRRRR"

Only it is not what it seems either. Both Madison and Jefferson for example. attempted to outlaw slavery. The reason you do not know this is because it does not fit the progressive agenda of demonizing the Founding Fathers.

[obdigore]

Oh? You think you are as smart or educated as Thomas Jefferson or James Madison?

Either of those is possible, since I'm unable to compare current higher education to the college of William and Mary back in the day. Nor could I tell you what he learned under the Minister he tutored under, nor can I discuss his intellect compared to mine since I've never met him, and no one has ever met both of us and been able to compare.

Your assumption that the founding fathers were smarter than anyone/everyone today is clear hero/ancestor worship and IS a problem in the united states, especially since most people who do that worship don't understand the reasoning behind the position taken by said founding fathers.

[Oktoberfest]

Edit as you replied. One second

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Either of those is possible, since I'm unable to compare current higher education to the college of William and Mary back in the day. Nor could I tell you what he learned under the Minister he tutored under, nor can I discuss his intellect compared to mine since I've never met him, and no one has ever met both of us and been able to compare.

Your assumption that the founding fathers were smarter than anyone/everyone today is clear hero/ancestor worship and IS a problem in the united states, especially since most people who do that worship don't understand the reasoning behind the position taken by said founding fathers.

I know this because unlike you I have read many many things written by Jefferson and Madison for example. I shall post some shortly. In the meantime lets review this



Ladies and gentlemen:

I want to welcome you to the White House. Mr. Lester Pearson informed me that a Canadian newspaperman said yesterday that this is the President's "Easter egghead roll on the White House lawn." I want to deny that!

I want to tell you how welcome you are to the White House. I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together at the White House, with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.

Someone once said that Thomas Jefferson was a gentleman of 32 who could calculate an eclipse, survey an estate, tie an artery, plan an edifice, try a cause, break a horse, and dance the minuet. Whatever he may have lacked, if he could have had his former colleague, Mr. Franklin, here we all would have been impressed.

JFK


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/feb/12/state-of-the-union-reading-level

Fascinating chart here.

The state of our union is … dumber:
How the linguistic standard of the presidential address has declined

Using the Flesch-Kincaid readability test the Guardian has tracked the reading level of every state of the union

[obdigore]

And yet, the state of the union address isn't a measure of intelligence, but rather a continuation of attempting to make every single person in the US understand what the President is saying. It is called the lowest common denominator and wasn't what the founding fathers, or many of the earlier presidents did, since every person who voted could either be bought by a liter of rum OR were educated themselves and so they understood.

The best thing you have ever stated on this site that I have seen is the quote suggesting the best way to have a democracy is to have an educated populace, but that quote left out a couple of important parts. The first being that the educated populace also needs to be involved, AND that we aren't actually a straight democracy.

[Oktoberfest]

Just quick things from wiki
Lets see. Jefferson spoke 5 languages fluently.
Jefferson was a farmer, with a lifelong interest in mechanical innovations, new crops, soil conditions, his gardens, and scientific agricultural techniques. His main cash crop was tobacco, but its price was usually low and it was rarely profitable. He tried to achieve self-sufficiency with wheat, vegetables, flax, corn, hogs, sheep, poultry and cattle to feed and clothe his family, slaves and white employees, but he had cash flow problems and was always in debt.[251][252]

Jefferson was an accomplished architect who helped popularize the Neo-Palladian style in the United States.[253] Jefferson was interested in birds and wine, and was a noted gourmet. Jefferson was a prolific writer. He learned Gaelic to translate Ossian, and sent to James Macpherson for the originals.[254]

Jefferson invented many small practical devices and improved contemporary inventions. These include the design for a revolving book-stand to hold five volumes at once to be viewed by the reader. Another was the "Great Clock", powered by the Earth's gravitational pull on Revolutionary War cannonballs. Its chime on Monticello's roof could be heard as far as the University of Virginia. Louis Leschot, a machinist, aided Jefferson with the clock. Jefferson invented a 6 in (15 cm) long coded wooden cipher wheel, mounted on a metal spindle, to keep secure State Department messages while he was Secretary of State. The messages were scrambled and unscrambled by 26 alphabet letters on each circular segment of the wheel. He improved the moldboard plow and the polygraph, in collaboration with Charles Willson Peale.[255]

As Minister to France, Jefferson was impressed by France's military standardization program known as the Système Gribeauval. As president, he initiated a program at the Federal Armories to develop interchangeable parts for firearms.[256] Although not realized in Jefferson's lifetime, the concept of interchangeable parts eventually led to modern industry and was a major factor in the United States' industrial power by the late 19th century.[citation needed]

Jefferson can also be accredited as the creator of the swivel chair, the first of which he created and used to write much of the Declaration of Independence.



efferson began his childhood education under the direction of tutors at Tuckahoe along with the Randolph children.[12] In 1752, Jefferson began attending a local school run by a Scottish Presbyterian minister. At the age of nine, Jefferson began studying Latin, Greek, and French; he learned to ride horses, and began to appreciate the study of nature. He studied under Reverend James Maury from 1758 to 1760 near Gordonsville, Virginia. While boarding with Maury's family, he studied history, science and the classics.[13]

At age 16, Jefferson entered the College of William & Mary in Williamsburg, and first met the law professor George Wythe, who became his influential mentor. He studied mathematics, metaphysics, and philosophy under Professor William Small, who introduced the enthusiastic Jefferson to the writings of the British Empiricists, including John Locke, Francis Bacon, and Isaac Newton.[14] He also improved his French, Greek, and violin. A diligent student, Jefferson displayed an avid curiosity in all fields[15] and graduated in 1762, completing his studies in only two years. Jefferson read law while working as a law clerk for Wythe. During this time, he also read a wide variety of English classics and political works. Jefferson was admitted to the Virginia bar in 1767.[16]

Throughout his life, Jefferson depended on books for his education. He collected and accumulated thousands of books for his library at Monticello. When Jefferson's father Peter died Thomas inherited, among other things, his large library. [17] A significant portion of Jefferson's library was also bequeathed to him in the will of George Wythe, who had an extensive collection. After the British burned the Library of Congress in 1814 Jefferson offered to sell his collection of more than six thousand books to Congress for about four dollars a book. After realizing he was no longer in possession of such a grand collection he wrote in a letter to John Adams, "I cannot live without books". Always eager for more knowledge, Jefferson immediately began buying more books and continued learning throughout most of his life.[18]

[Mayhem]

ahah was waiting for that one. That is the standard progressive response. "THEY WERE RACISTS GRRRRRR"

Only it is not what it seems either. Both Madison and Jefferson for example. attempted to outlaw slavery. The reason you do not know this is because it does not fit the progressive agenda of demonizing the Founding Fathers.

i don´t demonize the founding fathers, i´m not even american so why would i, i don´t think you should worship them as more intelligent than everyone alive now though
they had some pretty good ideas and some pretty awefull

and it´s interesting that you mention jefferson... he proposed to remove the slaves and not just end slavery, he wanted them gone, because he believed that if they were set free it would lead to violent civil strifes between blacks and whites

they southern slaveowners weren´t to fond of that idea of course

[Oktoberfest]

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/james-madison

James Madison (5 March 1751-28 June 1836), revolutionary leader and fourth president of the United States, was born in King George County, Virginia. James Madison and Thomas Jefferson probably met in early May 1776 while serving as members of the Virginia House of Delegates. Before the year was over, both men chose the paths which led to their famous futures: Jefferson, at age 33, went to Philadelphia to become the author of the Declaration of Independence. Madison, at age 25, stayed in Williamsburg to become a member of the convention which drafted Virginia's first constitution. Their friendship became warmer in 1779, however, during Jefferson's tenure as Governor of Virginia, when Madison served as a member of his official advisory council. By the early 1780's, as their new country emerged from the chaos of revolution, their close personal ties and political collaboration were cemented.

Both men were avid readers and collected volumes on a variety of subjects--history, philosophy, agriculture, politics and economics. Madison and Jefferson often discussed books in their letters and, during his stay in France, Jefferson sent Madison over 200 books. Always scholars, they used their studies to shape their ideas on government. Both men fervently believed that an educated public was necessary for survival of the country; at Jefferson's death, Madison succeeded his friend as Rector of the University of Virginia and continued to oversee one of their most important joint ventures.

Madison and Jefferson both believed strongly that the powers of government belong ultimately to the people who are governed. Their mutual love of reading and political discussions led to their shared belief in "republican principles" of government. Both agreed on the principle of majority rule with minority rights--the idea that governmental decision-making should follow the wishes of the majority of people, while allowing for dissent of the minority. Both believed in the power of the human mind and individual conscience. These ideas are reflected in their pasmsionate support for the ideas simply delivered in the Bill of Rights--the freedom of religion, freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

The personal friendship of Madison and Jefferson was built on other interests as well. They shared a love of the Virginia countryside; the fertile lands of the Piedmont offered both men the opportunities to study and discuss practical and financial questions of gardening, agriculture and forestry. Both kept careful records of local temperatures and rainfall while they exchanged seeds and farming tips. Jefferson asked Madison and another good friend, James Monroe, to move near Monticello in order to build "a society to our taste." Monroe did take up residence nearby at Ash Lawn-Highland.

As classically educated men, both found the Greeks and Romans to be not only sources of information on principles' of government but also as an inspiration for the architecture of their homes. Both Montpelier and Monticello show classical influences: Montpelier's graceful Garden Temple, for example, resembles Jefferson's sketches for his garden buildings. The two often discussed house plans and sent sketches in their letters; they shared the services of local craftsmen as well. During the first renovations of Montpelier'(ca. 1797--1800). Madison ordered nails from Jefferson's nailery.

James Madison reassured his dying friend and reconfirmed the quality of their intertwined lives in his last letter to Jefferson: "You cannot look back to the long period of our private friendship and political harmony, with more affecting recollections that I do. If they are a source of pleasure to you, what ought they not to be to me? ... Wishing and hoping that you may yet live to increase the debt which our country owes you, and to witness the increasing gratitude, which alone can pay it, I offer you the fullest return of affectionate assurances."

Further Sources

Brandt, Irving. James Madison, 6 volumes. Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill, 1941-61.
Brugger, Robert J. et al, eds. The Papers of James Madison: Secretary of State Series. Charlottesville: University Press of Virginia, 1986-.
Hutchinson, William T. and William M.E. Rachal, eds. The Papers of James Madison. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1962-.
Ketcham, Ralph. James Madison, New York: Macmillan, 1971.
Rutland, Robert A. et al, eds. The Papers of James Madison: Presidential Series. Charlottesville: University Press of Virginia, 1984-.
Look for Sources in the Thomas Jefferson Portal