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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    So, to have max-level "new" versions of old raids? No thanks. And if they will be LFR'able only at their respectable brackets - just look at Dragon Soul - it would take you much longer than eternity to get into DS LFR now.
    Mods, can we start giving people temp bans when they obviously didn't read the OP? Thanks

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    None, it sucks any enjoyment out of real raiding.

    Let the raiders raid.
    Aww, still upset your lost your snowflake status?

  3. #103
    Stood in the Fire
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    Granted the upscaled everything.

  4. #104
    Ya, LFR is not fun for the 20% of the raid that carries the other 80%. I would prefer that my memories of those raids were not tainted by LFR.

    I have no problem with LFR being in the game and I think it has it's uses, but not for enjoying raiding. That's forsure.

  5. #105
    Field Marshal syar's Avatar
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    Why is zerging down things with half of the raid afking and without communication even fun to people? Its like playing LoL against bots...

  6. #106
    I'd like to see LFR Karazhan.

  7. #107
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syar View Post
    Why is zerging down things with half of the raid afking and without communication even fun to people?
    Exaggeration aside, because those people get to see the story line and experience mechanics not seen before in the 5-mans they were relegated to.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Exaggeration aside, because those people get to see the story line and experience mechanics not seen before in the 5-mans they were relegated to.
    Whats the problem with the concept of challanging hard 5man heroics as a content?( I loved them during BC) Making everybody able to kill everything without even beeing mentaly present in the game is a horrible design idea, and I'm saying this as somebody who has no time right now to do any serious organised raiding.( just came back to WoW, did 1 LFR and almost hung myself because of the boredom)

  9. #109
    All of them - after the next tier is released without a LFR form.

  10. #110
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by syar View Post
    Whats the problem with the concept of challanging hard 5man heroics as a content?
    They tried this in Cataclysm and millions of players left. That's the problem with challenging 5-man Heroics.
    Quote Originally Posted by syar View Post
    Making everybody able to kill everything without even beeing mentaly present in the game is a horrible design idea, and I'm saying this as somebody who has no time right now to do any serious organised raiding.
    If it's a horrible design idea, why is is so popular?
    Quote Originally Posted by syar View Post
    (just came back to WoW, did 1 LFR and almost hung myself because of the boredom)
    Looks like you want a bigger challenge, but don't have the time. WoW can't cater to that at the moment, you are either looking for a challenge (Normal/Heroic mode raiding) or something quick (Scenarios). How about Heroic Scenarios and Challenge Mode dungeons? That way you don't have to do stuff that bores you.
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  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    If it's a horrible design idea, why is is so popular?
    Because there is no alternative. Participation does not equal popularity/good feature.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by syar View Post
    Whats the problem with the concept of challanging hard 5man heroics as a content?
    The problem is that a large majority of the playerbase aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. WoW used to be about the epic journey and then finally getting an awesome reward at the end.... now people just want the awesome reward at the end without the journey lol. If a boss isn't one shottable, there's a sizable demographic that will threaten to quit, unless blizz waters it down.

  13. #113
    I don't have much against LFR, but I'm glad older content wasn't an option.
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  14. #114
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    icc or ulduar i can solo everything except them >.<

  15. #115
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Because there is no alternative. Participation does not equal popularity/good feature.
    I'm pretty sure it does. The alternative is Normal raiding and that's very unpopular. We'll see if Flex raiding makes a difference.
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    None. Lfr is horrible so I dont lament the lack of lfr for any raid.
    This.

    If choosing none is not an option then I choose ulduar.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    I'm pretty sure it does. The alternative is Normal raiding and that's very unpopular. We'll see if Flex raiding makes a difference.
    I was mostly talking/thinking about alts. Not very many people can raid on alts in other raiding groups. LFR and the difficulty of normal mode basically killed pugging. This makes LFR the only way to improve on those alts. Sorry for the off-topic though.

  18. #118
    All the 25 players raid

    But if I have to pick one... Ulduar

  19. #119
    Field Marshal syar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    They tried this in Cataclysm and millions of players left. That's the problem with challenging 5-man Heroics.
    But subscription numbers were increasing back then as I can remember. ( and I did some digging so It seems it peaked 9 million mid BC which was a record) I can see that for some people challange is not inviting, but I'm pretty sure thats just a fraction of the player base. Also I'm not saying there should be no easy solo content, you always can make daily factions with entertaining quest etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    If it's a horrible design idea, why is is so popular?
    After all thats how you see the lore now so obviously people will do it. And judging by my experience its not healthy for WoW, since it makes you feel you have seen everything. Even if I had time to raid normal I don't like the idea that I've pre-seen all in a god mode version and got same looking gear from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Looks like you want a bigger challenge, but don't have the time. WoW can't cater to that at the moment, you are either looking for a challenge (Normal/Heroic mode raiding) or something quick (Scenarios). How about Heroic Scenarios and Challenge Mode dungeons? That way you don't have to do stuff that bores you.
    It does seem hard to find group for challange mode dungeons , but that idea is nice and at least I have something to mess with till my 1 month expires. (well to be honest I would rather have hard boss fights for 5 people than speedruns but I take what I can get )

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    They tried this in Cataclysm and millions of players left. That's the problem with challenging 5-man Heroics.
    And 5 mans was the reason subs dropped? That is like saying that the reasons subs dropped in MoP is pet battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    If it's a horrible design idea, why is is so popular?
    Dont mistake participation/completion with popularity. Just check this thread

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t=poll+dungeon

    MoP heroics recieved 1.41% of the votes. Now, considering the amount of people that probably made their first character in MoP, that is just terrible. Cataclysm entry heroics was 1200% more popular than the current MoP heroics. That is data supported by a community poll with almost 1000 votes.

    I see this way to often in threads like these, so many people mistake people doing something for it being good. I recently leveled up a druid as restoration and I leveled in dungeons since I completely hate quest and pvp leveling. Dungeons is atleast somewhat bearable... atleast as dps and tank. Leveling as a healer I found out just how boring it was. The amount of dungeons spent talking with the other people in the dungeon about how shitty they are cant be counted on two hands. Yet, we are still doing them, even though we all hate them, since they are the path of least resistance, the easiest and fastest way to level up.

    Heck, just check monkey runs, how many people are constantly spamming monkey runs (even though I dont understand why, since mantid grinding is 200% faster leveling)
    Do you think all those people leveling with monkey runs think they are a great concept and a ton of fun? No, they do it because it is easy with a high reward.

    Just picture this as a real life example. Think if the international commitee for marathons, yeah, I just made that up but bet something like that exists, suddenly decided; 'Hey! We are gonna reduce the length of a marathon from 42195 meters to 4219.5 meters, or from 26 miles to 2.6 miles for you mericans.
    The amount of people that would complete the marathon would significantly increase, however, would it be better? Just because more people completed it, does it mean it was better?

    While having those shorter races is smart, there is no need for a marathon to be one either, there are other races that are shorter if you like those shorter races, you dont need to sign up for the marathon.

    In the same way, WoW do not really need any more mindnumblingly stupidly easy content, there is enough of that to go around. If you are into that, go do that content then. What WoW is lacking is content that is actually challenging and encourages players to develop, not regress.

    Also, find it kinda relevant to this subject that while writing this post I was actually in a 5 man heroic healing. I had my browser set to always on top so it was over my WoW, covering about 90% of my WoW, and I just had follow on the tank the entire run, taking a break in typing whenever people went low and just casted a heal every 10 seconds.
    When you can afk yourself through content, that to me is just plain bad design. If rewards require no effort, people are gonna continue expecting rewards for no effort, causing a very dangerous downward spiral of the quality of the game.
    I really should not be sitting on forums while healing a dungeon, I should be healing, but I dont have to so I am.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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