Simple change to killing spree to prevent deaths

[Warstar]

So many teleport abilities in this game are buggy. Blink, shadow step, KSP all have and continue to drop people through the world and in the case of KSP kill the rogue due to game play mechanics.

Blizz tried to address this with the glyph that returns you to your previous location but that doesn't always work and even so just the act of teleporting behind the boss can get a rogue killed.

Simple fix: change the glyph to no longer teleport the rogue. This allows the CD to be used any time you're able to attack the boss (which it should be) and prevents a gimmick part of the ability from killing the rogue. Really the only dsp CD out there that kills a person if used at the wrong time which is a bad mechanic. Can keep it unglyphed for pvp so that you can still stick onto a target but can glyph it for pve so that you don't kill yourself and can still use your dps cooldown.

[Deleted]

Oh noes I can't use my ability without using my brain!

Ksp 90% of the times doesn't kill you if you don't use it at the wrong time. Be smart don't press it when it's going to kill you. Problem solved.

It would be so boring to remove the teleport aspect of the ability. No longer stepping through the shadows to hit your target. But rather just be some idiot warrior like attack. No thanks.

Why does it matter that you can't use Ksp right as it comes of cd. Has it really become that important to play the numbers game. Bosses don't even have tight enrage timers anymore.

[Deleted]

I think Killing spree is annoying yes, but the teleport is the defining aspect of the ability, and as Lumbermill says - it isn't too bad if you just wait a couple of seconds for it to be useable.

[Warstar]

Oh noes I can't use my ability without using my brain!

Ksp 90% of the times doesn't kill you if you don't use it at the wrong time. Be smart don't press it when it's going to kill you. Problem solved.

It would be so boring to remove the teleport aspect of the ability. No longer stepping through the shadows to hit your target. But rather just be some idiot warrior like attack. No thanks.

Why does it matter that you can't use Ksp right as it comes of cd. Has it really become that important to play the numbers game. Bosses don't even have tight enrage timers anymore.

Well currently combat is balanced around 100% up time and using your CDs right when they pop up. If you delay your CDs it's not like other classes who just have to wait a little bit longer (although they don't really unless a boss is at 1% and they're about to transition to a different phase which is a different scenario) every other class can pop their CDs whenever they want for a higher damage. With Restless Blades every time you have an ability off CD waiting to be used and you use a finisher it's a big deal.

It's not about using your brain. It's a stupid mechanic. It's very easy to know "hey if I use KSP right now I'll die" and not to do it but then you're just nerfing your damage. Like on Durumu during his disintegration beam. That lasts quite awhile and could effectively cause you to lose out on a KSP for that fight and an AR depending. There are mechanics like that all over the place and there will always be mechanics like that. If there aren't then blizz is limiting themselves to encounter designs based on a stupid mechanic.

And yes it is a numbers game. Why do you think combat rogues are complaining now? They do crap for damage compared to assassination. There are sites out there like world of logs which are dedicated to showing off peoples numbers. You don't gear up a character to sit around in shiny epics and show off the fact that your class sucks. You want to be a good competitive person. Also with SoO right around the corner enrage timers are going to be tight again.

It's a QoL issue. With the glyph you could essentially turn off "im going to die" when you need to and then turn it back on when you want it on.

It's really not about making it a bread dead skill it's about getting full use out of a class skill that the class is based around using on CD.

[Deleted]

Well currently combat is balanced around 100% up time and using your CDs right when they pop up. If you delay your CDs it's not like other classes who just have to wait a little bit longer (although they don't really unless a boss is at 1% and they're about to transition to a different phase which is a different scenario) every other class can pop their CDs whenever they want for a higher damage. With Restless Blades every time you have an ability off CD waiting to be used and you use a finisher it's a big deal.

It's not about using your brain. It's a stupid mechanic. It's very easy to know "hey if I use KSP right now I'll die" and not to do it but then you're just nerfing your damage. Like on Durumu during his disintegration beam. That lasts quite awhile and could effectively cause you to lose out on a KSP for that fight and an AR depending. There are mechanics like that all over the place and there will always be mechanics like that. If there aren't then blizz is limiting themselves to encounter designs based on a stupid mechanic.

And yes it is a numbers game. Why do you think combat rogues are complaining now? They do crap for damage compared to assassination. There are sites out there like world of logs which are dedicated to showing off peoples numbers. You don't gear up a character to sit around in shiny epics and show off the fact that your class sucks. You want to be a good competitive person. Also with SoO right around the corner enrage timers are going to be tight again.

It's a QoL issue. With the glyph you could essentially turn off "im going to die" when you need to and then turn it back on when you want it on.

It's really not about making it a bread dead skill it's about getting full use out of a class skill that the class is based around using on CD.

I just have no desire to lose class flavour because you are obsessed with dps numbers, and if you are that obsessed then play mutilate.

Half of the class homogenisation comes from people being obsessed with the fact they aren't higher up the recount then they feel they should be. So what you can Ksp during Duru, mages can't alter time or use arcane power during it either.

It happens to every class at some point on some fights. Just live with it and move.

Now I will give you things like Magaera or something like Hc Spine where bugs would be annoying. But that's a different issue.

[Daerio]

Why does it matter that you can't use Ksp right as it comes of cd. Has it really become that important to play the numbers game. Bosses don't even have tight enrage timers anymore.

You mean normals/LFRs? Enrage timers are pretty tight on several bosses. I don't even know what game you're playing, honestly.

[ymirsson]

I just have no desire to lose class flavour because you are obsessed with dps numbers, and if you are that obsessed then play mutilate.

Which flavour do you mean? The "my spec is flawed by design" flavour? Honestly, if you think KsP loses its roguesh ambiente if you remove the (nonperceptible) "shadow teleport" aspect, you are obsessed by something too.

And finally, if a glyph makes you enjoy the game less, just don't use it.

[Koji2k11]

Which flavour do you mean? The "my spec is flawed by design" flavour? Honestly, if you think KsP loses its roguesh ambiente if you remove the (nonperceptible) "shadow teleport" aspect, you are obsessed by something too.

And finally, if a glyph makes you enjoy the game less, just don't use it.

idk i think this dude didnt play combat enough to understand the complaints from other players who are tired of it playing combat which they like alot to its full potential

also i think it would be cool if your KS would teleport you to the nearest raid member so you can safely us it and you need to be in god mode in KS to not die to those mechanics let us take 100% less damage while KS is active

[Warstar]

Which flavour do you mean? The "my spec is flawed by design" flavour? Honestly, if you think KsP loses its roguesh ambiente if you remove the (nonperceptible) "shadow teleport" aspect, you are obsessed by something too.

And finally, if a glyph makes you enjoy the game less, just don't use it.

I agree with this 100%. It wouldn't change the game play if you want to die using it. It would just take out a poorly designed mechanic and still do everything it does. There still wouldn't be any other ability in the game like it. In PvP you could keep it or in whatever situation it would be good you could keep the teleport feature on and it would be awesome. It's just a bad mechanic that using something kills you.

Honestly I think something like this would be similar to the shamans glyph for thunderstorm making you not knock enemies back. That ability and chain lightning are the most iconic abilities of that class. How many people have rolled a shaman just to go and knock people off ledges in PvP? But you know what? In PvE that's incredibly annoying for everyone else so they made a glyph that takes the knock back away. Personally, pushing a button at the wrong time that could kill me is a pretty annoying thing too. The glyph that they implemented really doesn't solve the problem of the ability.

[Frolk]

If 1 of ur CDs might kill u when u NEEEEED to push that extra DPS to skip a phase or to down the boss, the CD is flawed and should be redone/fixed.
What other DPS cooldown is able to kill u? Im not speaking in getting aggro of boss and then being killed
(PS, i dont play rogue)

[Rigapples]

I just don't see why they don't give us a targetting reticle. Place the circle where you want to perform KS. Any mobs within that circle are eligable to get hit at random by one of our strikes during KS. At the end of KS, you land in the center of where your circle was placed.

Simple, allows for greater skill via targeting (attempting to target a single target to maximize DPS against it, etc), and makes it flexible. If no targets are within the circle when it's placed, it behaves like a targetted shadowstep and places you where the circle was, but no strikes occur.

[Deleted]

Always been buggy that killing spree

[Kael]

I just don't see why they don't give us a targetting reticle. Place the circle where you want to perform KS. Any mobs within that circle are eligable to get hit at random by one of our strikes during KS. At the end of KS, you land in the center of where your circle was placed.

They're moving it to single target in the upcoming patch anyway. No option to sac your DPS CD for a blink, but so long as BF is toggled off you won't have that irritating extra issue of placing yourself in relation to your target properly.

So long as KS's damage doesn't become A) not that important, B) unlikely to kill you, or C) not punishing to delay, it will remain a liability to PvE that's not necessary. To take one of the worst examples, for the moment, Durumu is horribly riddled with times you just can't - ice walls (fixed by glyph & next patch), maze, lights phase (unless damage isn't an issue during it - i.e. farm). The one thing that could fix this pretty easily would be giving it charges, but that would be horribly broken for PvP.

[Warstar]

They're moving it to single target in the upcoming patch anyway. No option to sac your DPS CD for a blink, but so long as BF is toggled off you won't have that irritating extra issue of placing yourself in relation to your target properly.

So long as KS's damage doesn't become A) not that important, B) unlikely to kill you, or C) not punishing to delay, it will remain a liability to PvE that's not necessary. To take one of the worst examples, for the moment, Durumu is horribly riddled with times you just can't - ice walls (fixed by glyph & next patch), maze, lights phase (unless damage isn't an issue during it - i.e. farm). The one thing that could fix this pretty easily would be giving it charges, but that would be horribly broken for PvP.

Or like I said before they could just give you a minor glyph that lets you turn off the teleport function and then every pve situation is solved and every pvp time when you wanna stick on someone like white on rice (although who seriously plays combat pvp?) you can.

The main issue with KSP is that you effectly CC yourself in the manner that you push a button and you lose control of your character for a few seconds with the added down side that usually you lose control and get placed in a spot of death and destruction. No other dps CD works like this. Hell even shadow dance you have the option to not be behind the target... it's wasted but you're not dead!

Also KSP just has a really crap way of working with bosses hit boxes anyways. It doesn't place you in the "Back" where melee generally stand but half the time puts you inside the boss (which translates to in front sometimes). If bosses were designed with a KSP spot or something in mind that'd be nice but they're not so rogues go flying off to a random spot for a few seconds. Same thing with shadow step. It teleports you to a really odd location (think Elegon where you teleport up into the air).

Being able to use KSP on CD without fear of death and without a teleport function would be really nice. It'd help with positioning and not knocking you out of place and causing you to potentially chain something really bad (C'thun eye beam mechanics) to other people and get them killed.

It's just sad because it's a very strong CD and will be even stronger with T16 and yet will still be sat on the bench while a rogue waits for the "this is going to kill me" phase to end.

They've made so many changes to this ability when all it needs to to have an option to not teleport you around to solve everything.

[ymirsson]

"Scotty, do not beam me up"!

[Chult]

You can just use a cancelaura macro to stop Killing Spree at any given time....

So, if you hit Killing Spree, and big bad boss ability is going to blow you up, cancel and gtfo.

[Deleted]

I made a topic about this before and the responses were much less constructive than here. Everyone can delay it not to get killed. Its not like its something a skilled player only can do. But when you just cant use it when you need to the spell is flawed. Not only bosses like durumu, but lately i've noticed its unusable in some brawlers guild bosses too. Couldnt even use it on wrathion alone during the legendary quest trial. The spell is flawed.

Also now that its single target only its very likely that it will cause pvp qq. The perfect way to fix that is remove the jumping/teleporting. The spell wouldnt be mindless 1 shot and needs some thought. That way the damage doesnt need to be nerfed and it would remain a strong ability. And in pve there wouldnt be anything to complain about any more.

[Warstar]

I made a topic about this before and the responses were much less constructive than here. Everyone can delay it not to get killed. Its not like its something a skilled player only can do. But when you just cant use it when you need to the spell is flawed. Not only bosses like durumu, but lately i've noticed its unusable in some brawlers guild bosses too. Couldnt even use it on wrathion alone during the legendary quest trial. The spell is flawed.

Also now that its single target only its very likely that it will cause pvp qq. The perfect way to fix that is remove the jumping/teleporting. The spell wouldnt be mindless 1 shot and needs some thought. That way the damage doesnt need to be nerfed and it would remain a strong ability. And in pve there wouldnt be anything to complain about any more.

With the change to single target it's fine in PvP. Combat is bad as it is so it doesn't really matter. Maybe if they made combat super strong somehow and it was a viable pvp spec then it'd have to be balanced but that's neither here nor there. Really all people are complaining about is people on the ptr with the 4pc out pveing them in a duel.

The teleport aspect is an iconic part of the ability and in a lot of situations it's a lot of fun and a cool thing. It's just that blizzard designs encounters to be fun and challenging which in a lot of cases means that killing spree will kill you if you don't use it correctly. And delaying an ability for a few seconds isn't bad. It's when you have to delay it for a long time that it really hurts you or have to delay it over and over again. Hell even on Jin'rok one time our combat rogue got taken out of the pool because I guess the boss was just a little too far forward and that totally screwed up his DPS and he didn't do anything wrong at all.

Aside from the random person who hates change even if it makes a class stronger I think the general opinion of every rogue out there is that it needs a change.

A side note if they made KSP make you immune to damage that'd be a little too powerful since it'd give the rogue a full immunity every 40-60 seconds in raid which could let rogues completely bypass mechanics that they already make easy with feint.

[Deleted]

I don't know if you actually tested it yourself but killing spree with deep insight and trinket procs will do significant damage and there is no way to peel for that damage. With the set bonus it doesnt even matter when you use it and you can still manage to kill someone from full health. Holinka already tweeted something will be done to it.

I also like the teleporting when it doesnt cause any trouble. I have had to wait countless of times at jin rokh because tanks want to stand in the puddle or they dont take the boss close enough so killing spree would jump out of the pool. I don't know if you have tried brawlers guild. Hexos at rank 8 for example doesnt allow you to use killing spree but you should still be able to do good dps. Well its not a problem if you are decently geared but still. Some rank 9 bosses will kill you immidiately if you use killing spree. What other class wont be able to use their major dps cooldown like that?

And killing spree shoulnt be immune to damage. It could be just immune to cc and slows like right now. Something like bladestorm. But you could run away from it or disarm it for example.

[Warstar]

I don't know if you actually tested it yourself but killing spree with deep insight and trinket procs will do significant damage and there is no way to peel for that damage. With the set bonus it doesnt even matter when you use it and you can still manage to kill someone from full health. Holinka already tweeted something will be done to it.

I also like the teleporting when it doesnt cause any trouble. I have had to wait countless of times at jin rokh because tanks want to stand in the puddle or they dont take the boss close enough so killing spree would jump out of the pool. I don't know if you have tried brawlers guild. Hexos at rank 8 for example doesnt allow you to use killing spree but you should still be able to do good dps. Well its not a problem if you are decently geared but still. Some rank 9 bosses will kill you immidiately if you use killing spree. What other class wont be able to use their major dps cooldown like that?

And killing spree shoulnt be immune to damage. It could be just immune to cc and slows like right now. Something like bladestorm. But you could run away from it or disarm it for example.

Is that killing someone in arena/bgs with a reduced ilv or in duels?

And I agree that it's a fun ability to use when you can use it and it doesn't negatively effect you the problem is that too many of the fight mechanics of a game cause it to be detrimental to your health to use it. Which is good because it means that the fight it self has interesting mechanics that people need to avoid and blizzard is trying to design fresh and new things for people to experience it just sucks that KSP is poorly designed so that it kills you during those fun mechanics or in the case of bad tanks on jin'rok screws your damage because even though you did everything correctly someone else was doing it wrong... it's kinda bad to think that for this ability not only do you have to make sure that everything is ok for you to do it but you also have to potentially be watching other people as well to see if they're doing their job correctly too.