Proving Grounds actually has great potential...

[Twilight Cultist]

So I am guessing Endless +30 is Heroic Raiding then? I hope they add some more mechanics though, right now it is very repetitive and not fun for dps.

[Normie]

So I am guessing Endless +30 is Heroic Raiding then? I hope they add some more mechanics though, right now it is very repetitive and not fun for dps.

Isn't pulling a boss 50 times repetitive?

[Twilight Cultist]

Isn't pulling a boss 50 times repetitive?

The difference is a boss has many mechanics. In Endless there are only 5 different mobs that literally only use 1 ability, the only different between each wave is what combination of those mobs you get. Not to mention, they aren't difficult to do once you know how to deal with the combos. It only gets difficult at around wave 14 when the buff on the adds get high and they have more hp. Each wave is 1 minute, so that is 14-15 minutes having to go through boring/easy waves just to end up wiping from a simple mistake and have to do it all over again.

[Buildapanda]

The difference is a boss has many mechanics. In Endless there are only 5 different mobs that literally only use 1 ability, the only different between each wave is what combination of those mobs you get. Not to mention, they aren't difficult to do once you know how to deal with the combos. It only gets difficult at around wave 14 when the buff on the adds get high and they have more hp. Each wave is 1 minute, so that is 14-15 minutes having to go through boring/easy waves just to end up wiping from a simple mistake and have to do it all over again.

That sounds terrible, I hate games designed around doing a repetitive thing that ramps up to extremely hard and if you fail you start all over. Yes, that's old school gaming mechanics, but this is the age of checkpoints, saves, .etc.

[Normie]

I don't think there should be any achievement other than the highest one (30 waves or whatever).

It really is going to be something that asshole pug loot ninjas add to their neverending list of requirements of people who are going to farm loot for them.

[kamuimac]

Now that a blue has come out with the gradings they want, raid leaders looking for players for their Normal (and worse, Flex) PuG asking for Endless achievements will just get laughed out of Trade chat.

just like those who lf dps for hc scenarios with 530 itlv requirements are geting laught at ? maybe by 1-2 trade troll but at each 1 troll they have 10 whispers from people who want smooth run .

[Twilight Cultist]

I honestly didn't find it repetitive at all for dps, at least as a melee. There are a lot of different things to do, movement is super important, interrupts and generally awereness is important, even memorization is important, which is something important in raiding too.

My only gripe with it is that 1) it has a lot of potential to be boring for ranged indeed, since only 2 mobs make ranged reposition themselves really
2) it promotes multidotting wayyyyy too much, to the point that even as a melee it's much more efficient to run around between mobs just applying dots than staying on a target (for the most part)

That being said, I did find them very fun. I just wish there was a way to skip 10 waves once you've beaten that series.... not looking forward to redoing the first 40 waves atm.

I was just thinking that getting to wave 30 should be something that takes some time to do and you work towards finally get there, but in its current state, I know I could do it in around a day. Unfortunately I couldn't do it for more than an hour without getting bored. Only ten different waves doesn't feel like enough.

[Firebert]

just like those who lf dps for hc scenarios with 530 itlv requirements are geting laught at ? maybe by 1-2 trade troll but at each 1 troll they have 10 whispers from people who want smooth run .

Heroic Scenarios are PuGged on my realm because people know what is required: item level 480.

People who ask for 530 are just looking for a boost.

[Razorice]

No thanks, I don't want 3 days long Queues

[Firebert]

No thanks, I don't want 3 days long Queues

Care to elaborate? Proving Grounds isn't like Brawler's Guild. It's instanced.

[Deleted]

Now that a blue has come out with the gradings they want, raid leaders looking for players for their Normal (and worse, Flex) PuG asking for Endless achievements will just get laughed out of Trade chat.

What blues say they want and what players decide is hardly the same thing.

If blues said "Players that can complete ToT LFR is not a liability in ToT normals", it would not magically make all pugs consider LFR to be sufficient experience for normals.

In the end, players decide what players do. Not blues. The only way that the vision they have for proving grounds is sufficient, but if I can go in and one-shot gold on all my alts etc with no effort, I am not gonna consider it to be a sufficient challenge to say anything. And of course vice versa, if getting gold is hard and requires some effort from me, then I might consider taking people with it into my pugs.

Until we see the live versions of the proving grounds, it is just speculations. Time will tell how hard they are. Personally I hope they make them hard enough to provide a challenge, but obviously it is very hard to tune solo content for different specs and roles. Getting endless on a hunter can be as easy as getting gold on a rogue, who knows. In short, until it goes live, we just dont know.

[felcommander]

as someone with 11 toons at 90 this would be terrible, its bad enough doing things like the intro to shat quest 11 times, doing something that I'd actually have to try and do would be even worse.

Edit: However on that note, on my ilvl 542 8/13 heroic tank, I'll be rocking the bronze title for fun.

[Tziva]

No problem. I'm just going to make sure I have that post handy when 5.4 hits.

Haha I just went back to cite it in my guild blog on proving grounds and it looks like he edited out the tuning goal. "It's likely undertuned right now."

[Firebert]

Haha I just went back to cite it in my guild blog on proving grounds and it looks like he edited out the tuning goal. "It's likely undertuned right now."

What's said has been said. I just think that he means that when it hits live that will be the targets, as opposed to everyone clearing Gold easily on the PTR. Redacting it now just means less tuning complaints on the PTR forums, which can only be a good thing.

[Deleted]

[retracted] ed: I had listed out the equivalent difficulty of Proving Grounds medals to what types of PvE content it should equal in terms of relative difficulty. PTR testing is ongoing and it's very likely Proving Grounds are under-tuned right now. I don't want people coming back to reference a list as a final intention of difficulty or proof of ability.

"I don't want people coming back to reference a list as a final intention of difficulty or proof of ability."

[Tziva]

What's said has been said. I just think that he means that when it hits live that will be the targets, as opposed to everyone clearing Gold easily on the PTR. Redacting it now just means less tuning complaints on the PTR forums, which can only be a good thing.

Oh yeah, it still might be true - I just thought it was amusing.

It probably makes more sense to have Gold be normal mode rather than heroic ready and put the big challenge in endless, but I still wouldn't be surprised if they made it a little harder earlier in gold. I also think silver needs a bump. But that's what the PTR is for!

[Bryce]

Did it the other day on my brewmaster and it was all over in like an hour and that's it. Didn't have any oh shit moments or anything like you would possibly have in a real raid environment. The only wave(s) that posed any sort of problem in my opinion was the final wave on Gold and even then it was kinda meh, don't know if it'd be meh to a new, inexperienced tank though and what not.

[discoepfeand]

Just got gold as a MW monk. Also got gold on my rogue. Monks ilvl on live is 549 and my rogue is 528.

The healer challenge is so much harder. Especially as a MW. On live I never go OOM with 6k~ spirit, but when you're cut down to 3k spirit and horrendous uptime on Lucidity and Cloudburst (Horridon trinket) your mana regeneration sucks. Big times.

Man, I'm having so much trouble on my rogue. I'm not PvE geared, and have stuff like colossus enchant and weapon chain. Do the enchants make a lot of difference? I can't get past wave 7 on gold

I've been doing this as assassination. I've also tried as sub, but that's a lot worse so far then assassination. Is combat a lot better?

[Barnabas]

I don't see adding something people will likely do once as a deterrent for any groups you can que for once they finished it. Who's gonna stop you from joining group as wrong spec or being afk in lfr? Bueller? Bueller?

[lunchbox2042]

I think it's stupid if it scales down your item level. Some specs which are played in raids scale better with gear than others.