How much more dps/damage do i get with Archi da?

[Deleted]

Dont know how it works but im a retard so cant figure it out myself:/, will it be a dps increase in 5.4?
All specs

[Grubjuice]

ArchD will let you one of three things.

• 1) It will let you use two Dark Souls back to back ONCE during the course of a fight
  
• 2) It will let you use Dark Soul immediately at the start of a fight (before you have full Embers or Demonic Fury) and still be able to use Dark Soul once you reach full embers
  
• 3) It will let you use Dark Soul on cooldown as normal but in the rare chance that ALL your trinkets proc, and all other short term damage buffs line up at once, can still use the spare Dark Soul to take advantage of it.

[Brusalk]

ArchD will let you one of three things.

• 1) It will let you use two Dark Souls back to back ONCE during the course of a fight
  
• 2) It will let you use Dark Soul immediately at the start of a fight (before you have full Embers or Demonic Fury) and still be able to use Dark Soul once you reach full embers
  
• 3) It will let you use Dark Soul on cooldown as normal but in the rare chance that ALL your trinkets proc, and all other short term damage buffs line up at once, can still use the spare Dark Soul to take advantage of it.

4) It'll let you save Dark Soul for only when you have trinket procs so you can do even more damage with those exceptional procs.

[Khargol]

Simple answer: maybe depending on fight.

So currently we get 30% in a stat for 20 seconds every 2 min. If the cool down starts immediately recharging such as conflag then dark soul is essentially on a one minute cd. If the cool down starts only after the second charge is used then we get 40 seconds.

The first option allows us to stack dark soul with buff once per minute and will be a good dps increase on little to no movement fights. The second cd method will be a dps increase but would be smaller since the idea will be to double pop to get the cd started again.

The increase in damage will always depend on how many other buffs you have rolling. Your mileage will vary with your gear and how much you have to move during the 2nd DA. Your play style will determine whether you get more damage from KJC or Archi and the fight clue you in as to whether or not to use manaroth's.

[Brusalk]

Simple answer: maybe depending on fight.

So currently we get 30% in a stat for 20 seconds every 2 min. If the cool down starts immediately recharging such as conflag then dark soul is essentially on a one minute cd. If the cool down starts only after the second charge is used then we get 40 seconds.

The first option allows us to stack dark soul with buff once per minute and will be a good dps increase on little to no movement fights. The second cd method will be a dps increase but would be smaller since the idea will be to double pop to get the cd started again.

The increase in damage will always depend on how many other buffs you have rolling. Your mileage will vary with your gear and how much you have to move during the 2nd DA. Your play style will determine whether you get more damage from KJC or Archi and the fight clue you in as to whether or not to use manaroth's.

It's been confirmed by Zumzumzum that it functions exactly like Conflag, which means that you gain 1 charge every 2 minutes, but that now you have some wiggle room as to when to use it as you don't lose any recharge time as long as you don't sit on 2 stacks, as well as 1 extra DS per minute as you start with 2.

[Grubjuice]

all this being said, it's a pretty good talent compared to the other two in their current state. (frakly i hope the other two are buffed a little to make them competitive).

[jaymzkerten]

I have a feeling in the current iterations KjC will now go from the strongest to the weakest of the T6 talents with it only being strong on heavy movement fights, and with the new MF not far behind (only strong on heavy AOE fights).

[Deleted]

ArchD will let you one of three things.


1) It will let you use two Dark Souls back to back ONCE during the course of a fight

well in theory you would be able to use dark soul back to back several times during an encounter depending on how long it is. you could use them back to back on pull, wait 4 minutes and 20 secs(the recharge resets once you use the 2nd one and you'll have to wait 4 minutes to get both charges back) then use them back to back again, and then wait 4 minutes 20 secs more and use them back to back again. you certainly arent limited to just use them back to back once during a fight.

[Grubjuice]

yes, of course you could do that too, all depending on the viscisitudes of the encounter.

[Deleted]

well in theory you would be able to use dark soul back to back several times during an encounter depending on how long it is. you could use them back to back on pull, wait 4 minutes and 20 secs(the recharge resets once you use the 2nd one and you'll have to wait 4 minutes to get both charges back) then use them back to back again, and then wait 4 minutes 20 secs more and use them back to back again. you certainly arent limited to just use them back to back once during a fight.

It really works exactly like Conflagrate / Hand of Gul'dan, i.e the recharge starts as soon as you use one charge. You can use 40 sec Dark Soul every 4min.

[Soulzar]

Could end up being very powerful fight depending on how certain mechanics roll out. A charge can be used for opening burst, second charge can be reserved to use during an AoE phase (Mannoroths what?), burst phase, dmg buff phase, etc later in the fight (within the 2 minute cooldown window) without losing any downtime on DS cooldown.
Or a fight may work better to stack them both in a row for a full DS hero

Perfect example from this tier would be Jin'rokh, where you'd love to pop DS on the pull.. but sit on it for 50 seconds till the first pool is down and hero blown. You could pop on pull, again in first pool, and first charge should be ready again for second pool. Alternatively, you could use both charges in first pool during lust.

[Deleted]

It really works exactly like Conflagrate / Hand of Gul'dan, i.e the recharge starts as soon as you use one charge. You can use 40 sec Dark Soul every 4min.

well, you cant double use it right off the bat, so you'll have to wait for 20 secs first and then use the 2nd Dark soul. once you use the 2nd dark soul, it recharges from scratch so to speak, so it isnt 40 secs of dark soul every 4 min but more like 40 sec of dark soul every 4 min and 20 secs.

edit: sorry you're absolutely correct zumzumzum, and im wrong in this.

[Brusalk]

well, you cant double use it right off the bat, so you'll have to wait for 20 secs first and then use the 2nd Dark soul. once you use the 2nd dark soul, it recharges from scratch so to speak, so it isnt 40 secs of dark soul every 4 min but more like 40 sec of dark soul every 4 min and 20 secs.

edit: sorry you're absolutely correct zumzumzum, and im wrong in this.

For clarity's sake:

0:00 - Use 1 (Now @ 1 charge)
0:20.01- Use 2 (Now @ 0 charges)
2:00 - You gain 1 charge (Now @ 1 charge)
4:00 - You gain 1 charge (Now @ 2 charges)

[Deleted]

0:00 - Use 1 (1)
1:50 - Amplification trinket procs again
1:51 - Use 2 (0)
2:00 - You gain 1 charge (1)
4:00 - You gain 1 charge (2)

Seems great in theory, but I'm anticipating some raging with the 1'45 ICD : the first and second proc have only 15 sec to both happen without wasting DS uptime or sync

[Deleted]

The buff from amp is so powerful that you wouldnt use DS until it procs, so its actually incredibly strong with DA because you would need something like a 1000 second fight to not have it available when amp procs if you were only using DS for that proc.

Just tested it and after 609 seconds of combat the trinket was up 6 times, and on the very last use there was 60 seconds to go until the recharge had completed when the proc had just happened, so the TL;DR of this is that with DA and the Amp trinket you will never realistically not have DS up for the trinket proc if you choose.

Also if the fight is short enough you can use the second charge for a quick execute dump after an amp proc or when you know the fight wont go on long enough to make it to the next amp proc)

With absoloutely perfect timing (where it procs on exactly 105 seconds) it would be around about the 630 second mark where it would start getting tight for your dark soul being available (i think), but as this is literally never going to happen in the real world you can safely assume you could get to the end of any fight without much hassle.

The problem this brings as spoiled stated below is that it makes our dark soul usage really boring and i have to agree, i love the interaction with pooling embers for chaos bolts but i personally dislike the idea of a talent becoming mandatory for us to use our only CD on a trinket proc, just seems like flawed design honestly. (We will end up being balanced around that aswell)

Just testing self buffed (using sac) -

Chaos bolt only is - 576k
Chaos bolt with only DS is - 688k
Chaos bolt with only Amp proc is - 1.38 million
Chaos bolt with Amp and 4 part is - 1.61 million
Chaos bolt with Amp and 4 part + DS is - 1.94 million
Chaos bolt with Amp and 4 part + DS + 12k crit buff is - 2.41 million

Those few rough numbers show that the difference on only chaos bolt by having DS is huge, if you compare Chaos with amp (1.38) vs amp with 4 part and DS (1.94) before raid buffs thats a difference of 600k damage on 1 cast + the fact that all the other spells gain insane damage if you crit due to the crit damage bonus.

Destro is going to end up in a really weird place at the end of this tier if its made viable without the trinket and 4 part, knowing blizzard though we are going to end up being balanced around the available gear and thats going to seriously suck for progression, we will see what happens when the number pass happens.

[Spoiledkid]

Amplification trinket will make AD mandatory and timing your Dark Souls will become nobrainer. Not sure if I like that, not much planning required.

[Brusalk]

0:00 - Use 1 (1)
1:50 - Amplification trinket procs again
1:51 - Use 2 (0)
2:00 - You gain 1 charge (1)
4:00 - You gain 1 charge (2)

Seems great in theory, but I'm anticipating some raging with the 1'45 ICD : the first and second proc have only 15 sec to both happen without wasting DS uptime or sync

Do you know if the CD on AD'd DS is reset like other 4 min cds on wipes? May be something to point out if not.

[Deleted]

Amplification trinket will make AD mandatory and timing your Dark Souls will become nobrainer. Not sure if I like that, not much planning required.

i would imagine that your opener will consists of hardcasting your dots or using a shard on SB:SS and channel MG for the amp proc followed by spamming 4 haunts in a row and keep spamming them as soon as you get a soulshard as long as the amp trink proc is up, if you're lucky with crits you should manage extremely high starter burst that would reach enh shammy lvl.

[Ichifails]

Amplification trinket will make AD mandatory and timing your Dark Souls will become nobrainer. Not sure if I like that, not much planning required.

If the amplification trinket stays here when it's live and DA will be in the same form we will see something like:

0:00 ->1st DS used
0:05 ->Amplification
1:55 ->2nd DS used
1:55 ->2nd Amplification
2:00 ->1st DS comes off CD
3:45 ->1st DS used again
3:45 ->3rd Ampliffication
3:55 ->2nd DS comes off CD
5:35 ->2nd DS used again
5:35 ->4th Amplification
5:45 ->1st DS comes off CD
6:25 ->1st DS used again
6:25 ->5th Amplification
7:35 ->2nd DS comes off CD
8:15 ->2nd DS used again
8:15 ->6th Amplification
8:25 ->1st DS comes off CD
10:05 ->1st DS used again
10:05 ->7th Amplification
10:15 ->2nd DS comes off CD again
11:55 ->2nd DS used again
11:55 ->8th Amplification
12:05 ->1st DS comes off CD
13:45 ->1st DS used again
13:45 ->9th Amplification
13:55 ->2nd DS comes off CD again

\o/

[Rayaleith]

OT but Archida (as in your subject without the space) in Greek slang means big ball (the testicle meaning of ball).