Updated character models + Cash Shop = Everyones happy

[Sliske]

No. I'm not one to complain about prices of shit on a store, but we already pay for the development of the game. Something as big as this should be 'free' (aka we paid for it through sub.) I will be very, very surprised if this way of thinking isn't thought by blizzard too.

[Deleted]

IMO, charging for new character models would be like charging for 1980x1080 game resolution, instead of 1240x720, which would be free.

The currecnt char models (minus cata and MoP ones) are outdated, a thing of the past.
I know it, you know it, and blizzards knows it.

Charging for that would be beyond stupid and would somewhat be like a set cost per (ingame)m² of texture.
You can always fight in a grey world if you don't like to pay up, right?
Visual effects, like a fireball zooming to your target when you cast fireball? Drop some in that coinslot over there.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

As much as I hate to say it, I totally could see it happening...

[shanthi]

Btw, you evaded my question. I asked a simple question, would you be ok with a premium raid, or not?

I didn't evade your question, you went back and edited your post after I had already typed a reply.

Your question is pretty easy to answer for me: I'd have no problem with them developing a premium raid if it was on top of the usual amount of content I expect for my $15. If Siege of Orgrimmar is as good as Throne of Thunder and they also create a second high-quality raid which costs extra, that's fine by me (so long as it doesn't have superior gear...pay-to-win isn't something I care for; not because it's unethical, just because it isn't my preference).

[TS26]

I assume you're joking. Your quote illustrated nothing; if anything, it undercut your position. So...it's paying for ongoing content creation? And we're getting...ongoing content creation? Good, guess Blizzard is holding up their end of the bargain, nothing more to see here.

To be less snide, that snippet is actually pretty clear: the sub fee pays for ongoing high-quality content and service. A very large amount of people consider Blizzard's products to be high-quality, and they're famous within the industry for high polish to their games. They never promised that every cent of revenues goes to WoW subscription content, nor did they promise that everything they develop for the game will be covered by the subscription.

There's really nothing to argue about, to be honest. It comes down to the usual free market question: Do you consider what you're getting to be worth the money? If so, keep paying. If not, stop paying. That's how you know if they're using the subscription money correctly.

Yes, you 15 dollars a month to get new content 1-3 months later. What's so hard to understand? You pay to get ongoing content creation. Right now, we're paying them to develop the new raid. This is what my quote means.

Again with the argument "They did not specify all the content". Guess what? They do not have to be literal about it. As I said, if you're ok with ANYTHING being on the cash shop, then you should be ok with raids,quests, characters models and even new spell effects being on the cash shop. Because according to you, the sub fee may not cover it because they did not specify ALL the content.

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I didn't evade your question, you went back and edited your post after I had already typed a reply.

Your question is pretty easy to answer for me: I'd have no problem with them developing a premium raid if it was on top of the usual amount of content I expect for my $15. If Siege of Orgrimmar is as good as Throne of Thunder and they also create a second high-quality raid which costs extra, that's fine by me (so long as it doesn't have superior gear...pay-to-win isn't something I care for; not because it's unethical, just because it isn't my preference).

Even if it has superior gear, you should be fine with it. Pay to win is not in your argument. You argued that the content remains the same and consistent.

[shanthi]

Again with the argument "They did not specify all the content". Guess what? They do not have to be literal about it. As I said, if you're ok with ANYTHING being on the cash shop, then you should be ok with raids,quests, characters models and even new spell effects being on the cash shop. Because according to you, the sub fee may not cover it because they did not specify ALL the content.

I'm okay with them putting anything they want that doesn't provide a competitive advantage at end-game, as long as I feel I'm getting enough content for $15 a month. Right now, I feel the content they're offering is worth $15 a month. If that changes, I'll stop subscribing. It really is that simple.

[Deleted]

I didn't evade your question, you went back and edited your post after I had already typed a reply.

Your question is pretty easy to answer for me: I'd have no problem with them developing a premium raid if it was on top of the usual amount of content I expect for my $15. If Siege of Orgrimmar is as good as Throne of Thunder and they also create a second high-quality raid which costs extra, that's fine by me (so long as it doesn't have superior gear...pay-to-win isn't something I care for; not because it's unethical, just because it isn't my preference).

It would not be pay to win if you were potentially able to gear faster than those who didn't pay for the raid?

[Redmage]

Maybe the reverse? Implement new models and item shop the ability to use the old ones?

[lopk]

Everyone wins, except the people who want updated models and expect them for no additional cost.

Would it make a lot of money? It would make a sh*t ton.

Would it be a huge slap to loyal customers? The hugest.

Would swimming in money outweigh the angry community? You tell me.

Yeah, this is a good idea. Blizzard can make a ton of money off this.

Also lol to the fans who say "but we're already paying for the sub, why do we need to pay more for this". pay for it or gtfo. That simple. Jesus, its such a simple and obvious message and yet almost no fan or complainer ever understands it.

Using that logic, then absolutely no content should be released for free - the sub just gets you in the game. What's the message even? That we need to pay for "it"? What's this "it"? Updated models? Content? If it's the former, then you're implying that it's already announced that they are selling for an additional cost, which isn't true. It's not "that simple", especially with an argument as broken as your own.

[TS26]

I'm okay with them putting anything they want that doesn't provide a competitive advantage at end-game, as long as I feel I'm getting enough content for $15 a month. Right now, I feel the content they're offering is worth $15 a month. If that changes, I'll stop subscribing. It really is that simple.

So your feelings are the only thing that decides whether or not they provided enough content for the 15$ fee, right?

[calculating]

what's it like to work at blizzard?

[shanthi]

Even if it has superior gear, you should be fine with it. Pay to win is not in your argument. You argued that the content remains the same and consistent.

I think you're a little confused. The pay-to-win part wasn't part of my argument with you, it was about my gaming preferences. It's exactly the same as if I said "If they turn WoW in a FPS, I wouldn't be okay with that, because first-person shooters aren't my cup of tea." My argument with you concerns whether Blizzard is doing something wrong/unethical. The pay-to-win thing was just a side-point; I don't consider pay-to-win to be wrong or unethical, just not what I prefer in a game.

[TS26]

I think you're a little confused. The pay-to-win part wasn't part of my argument with you, it was about my gaming preferences. It's exactly the same as if I said "If they turn WoW in a FPS, I wouldn't be okay with that, because first-person shooters aren't my cup of tea." My argument with you concerns whether Blizzard is doing something wrong/unethical. The pay-to-win thing was just a side-point; I don't consider pay-to-win to be wrong or unethical, just not what I prefer in a game.

The cash shop is pay to win..albeit it gives a very very very small advantage. Nevertheless, it gives an advantage over those who do not pay.

[shanthi]

So your feelings are the only thing that decides whether or not they provided enough content for the 15$ fee, right?

Each consumer's feelings is the only thing that determines whether Blizzard is offering enough content to that consumer, yes. The same goes for you. I said in a post above:

There's really nothing to argue about, to be honest. It comes down to the usual free market question: Do you consider what you're getting to be worth the money? If so, keep paying. If not, stop paying. That's how you know if they're using the subscription money correctly.

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The cash shop is pay to win..albeit it gives a very very very small advantage. Nevertheless, it gives an advantage over those who do not pay.

Yes, but I defined what I consider pay-to-win in response to one of your questions to me: I'm okay with them putting anything they want that doesn't provide a competitive advantage at end-game, as long as I feel I'm getting enough content for $15 a month.

If you consider mounts, pets and transmog items to be pay-to-win, that's a valid opinion for yourself. And if that opinion means the game isn't fun for you, you have the option to stop paying Blizzard and use your money for something you find more fun. Just as I said I would if I ever felt I wasn't getting sufficient content for my sub fee.

[IIamaKing]

The whole idea of the cash shop in a sub game is mildly offensive. Based off of their pricing of the helms...lol 15 bucks... I dread seeing anything else put up. For comparison, Rift has mounts for 7-15 dollars, pets for 1-5 dollars, whole SETS of cosmetic armor for 7-12 dollars and all the content in game is free IE xpacks raids ect....

[TS26]

Each consumer's feelings is the only thing that determines whether Blizzard is offering enough content to that consumer, yes. The same goes for you. I said in a post above:

There's really nothing to argue about, to be honest. It comes down to the usual free market question: Do you consider what you're getting to be worth the money? If so, keep paying. If not, stop paying. That's how you know if they're using the subscription money correctly.

Perhaps, but here's an idea. You pay a sub fee. They bring out a patch with 1 quest and 2 premium raids. Would it be ok to assume that the sub fee should've included the raids? If that's so, then why would it be wrong to assume that the helms should've been in the sub fee?

[shanthi]

Perhaps, but here's an idea. You pay a sub fee. They bring out a patch with 1 quest and 2 premium raids. Would it be ok to assume that the sub fee should've included the raids? If that's so, then why would it be wrong to assume that the helms should've been in the sub fee?

This is the idea, in my opinion: We pay a sub fee. We get a certain amount of content. We each get to decide if that content was worth the sub fee.

Whether they create things that cost extra or not is irrelevant to that fundamental question. Are you getting sufficient return on your money? If so, then you're not being ripped off.

[TS26]

Each consumer's feelings is the only thing that determines whether Blizzard is offering enough content to that consumer, yes. The same goes for you. I said in a post above:

There's really nothing to argue about, to be honest. It comes down to the usual free market question: Do you consider what you're getting to be worth the money? If so, keep paying. If not, stop paying. That's how you know if they're using the subscription money correctly.

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Yes, but I defined what I consider pay-to-win in response to one of your questions to me: I'm okay with them putting anything they want that doesn't provide a competitive advantage at end-game, as long as I feel I'm getting enough content for $15 a month.

If you consider mounts, pets and transmog items to be pay-to-win, that's a valid opinion for yourself. And if that opinion means the game isn't fun for you, you have the option to stop paying Blizzard and use your money for something you find more fun. Just as I said I would if I ever felt I wasn't getting sufficient content for my sub fee.

They are P2W. I simply do not care about the things they give to even complain about them, but im sure others would be annoyed.

Transmog items arent P2W, pets and mounts are.

Also, I am making a stand. I do not buy any of their cash items. Heck, my brother bought the steed a while back before our accounts got merged and i never even used it once.

I guess in the end, you do not have the right to dictate what sub fee should support for other players, which was in your original post. If someone feels that the content that was created by their sub fee shouldn't have been sold as a separate product, then you shouldn't say they are wrong.

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This is the idea, in my opinion: We pay a sub fee. We get a certain amount of content. We each get to decide if that content was worth the sub fee.

Whether they create things that cost extra or not is irrelevant to that fundamental question. Are you getting sufficient return on your money? If so, then you're not being ripped off.

Some cases, yes, but in others, no. It's why I resub every couple of months. However, If I paid them for X month, and then saw things that were created in the very same things to be a premium product, then that's bad. In the end, i am voting with my wallet.

[Mirishka]

I did not dictate it. Blizzard did. Here you go:



Im sure you know what ongoing content creation means. So, whos clueless now?

Pretty sure its still you.

P.S. I missed the part in your quote that says your sub fee entitles you to *all* content they produce, every model, every mount. Did you forget to copy/paste that?

This is a classic case of 'I have absolutely no validity, so I'm going to take the most vague comment I can find and twist it into what I want it to say.'

Last time I checked, we've received gigabytes upon gigabytes of content patches that don't cost a cent. Last time I checked, even lesser patches like 5.3 added heaps of items, pets, mounts, etc - again, that don't cost a cent. In the nearly-9 years this game has existed, never ONCE has its cost increased. Never ONCE has the cost of its miscellaneous services increased. Despite increases in cost of living, production costs, and everything from gasoline to the price of a flipping candy bar.

So spare me your 'I'm entitled to everything they make' wah-wah bullshit. You aren't. If you want to sit there and keep telling yourself otherwise, hey, be my guest. But I can tell myself that I just saw a cow fly past my window, doesn't make it correct or true.

All the dumb-as-rocks topics in the world about the Blizzard Store don't change the fact that Blizzard has the right to sell whatever they please in it. Their game. Their IP. If they want to sell WoW-themed hotdogs, they don't have to explain that to you or anyone else.

Although, according to your brain-dead logic (bit of a stretch, calling it logic) they would owe you those hotdogs and you should not have to pay for them. Ongoing content creation, you paid already, right?

/facepalm

[FAILoZOFF]

Character models are 100% cosmetic just like the helms. You don't gain stats and it doesn't make the game any easier or harder.

It's actually the PERFECT item to sell in the cash shop because more then half the player base would purchase it.



How? You're not buying anything that gives you an advantage in-game in any way at all. It's purely cosmetic just like the helms. You have people posting how 6-7 people in their EU guilds have bought helms already. If it was updated models it would be 4 x's as that. That's alot of extra money that Blizz would be stupid to pass up.

Not sure if trolling or just stupid at this point.
./confused